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#267961 - 07/21/09 03:25 PM an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
hi,I hoped to find a full manual for it,but apparently these guys think that a quick guide is enough to make us spend 2400 euros...
http://www.essound.com/Apps/WebObjects/ESSound.woa/1/wa/viewProduct?id=11&lang=ita

it looks like a very capable machine but I think they should seriously consider uploading a full manual on their site

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#267962 - 07/21/09 04:05 PM Re: an interesting arranger module
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 528
Loc: Netherlands
Nice concept,but it sounds like a 90er keyboard
Look and listen>> http://essound.com/ftpess/clipver2.wmv

Impuls
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Genos,Nord Electro 5D

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#267963 - 07/22/09 12:35 AM Re: an interesting arranger module
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4720
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Looks Like a standard PC with dedicated music software, (Similar to Livestyler) that can play audio, Yamaha styles (In XG Format) and uses Sound fonts for the inbuilt sounds. (A format that was first introduced in the 90s)
As software based keyboards/modules have been around for years (The very late 90s was probably when it first started) there is nothing new bought to the table.
Always good to see whats out there though?

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#267964 - 07/22/09 04:01 AM Re: an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
Looks Like a standard PC with dedicated music software, (Similar to Livestyler) that can play audio, Yamaha styles (In XG Format) and uses Sound fonts for the inbuilt sounds. (A format that was first introduced in the 90s)
As software based keyboards/modules have been around for years (The very late 90s was probably when it first started) there is nothing new bought to the table.
Always good to see whats out there though?

Bill


Not sure about what you are saying. I didn't see many arranger modules and the only bunch I know is made of three or four of them:

Ketron X4
Gem Geneys XP
Gem WX
Gem wk2

there are 2 or three more but the ones with a proper sequencer are only four or five.

does not seem a big assortment for a 20 year span...

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#267965 - 07/22/09 04:05 AM Re: an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
Looks Like a standard PC with dedicated music software, (Similar to Livestyler)

Bill


Yes,it looks like a PC just as much as a Ferrari looks like a Kawasaki motorbike

this is a musical instrument,not a PC.
I think it's a big difference. I don't know how good is it,but it does not look like it would be rubbish.
I would trade my PC for it,no problem....

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-22-2009).]

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-22-2009).]

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#267966 - 07/22/09 05:31 AM Re: an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally posted by Impuls:
Nice concept,but it sounds like a 90er keyboard
Look and listen>> http://essound.com/ftpess/clipver2.wmv

Impuls


ah ah, I agree,it sounds like a 90's keyboard,lol

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#267967 - 07/22/09 06:45 AM Re: an interesting arranger module
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4720
Loc: English Riviera, UK
The Software keyboard started about 1999 with a prototype from Creamware (Now taken over by Sonic-Core http://www.sonic-core.net/de/home/home.html ) in Germany; http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/MusikMesse00/CreamWare/CreamWare-StageFrame.html
This was subsequently taken up by Wersi and launched in 2000/1 as the OAS system.
Neko (I Think) and TMS followed later, with Lionstracs coming in about 2003/4.
In addition although not software, Bohm http://www.keyswerk.de/ also produce an arranger module.
http://www.openlabs.com/products.html
http://www.lionstracs.com/store/index.php
http://www.wersi.net/
http://www.tornado-music.de/

Regards

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#267968 - 07/25/09 04:08 PM Re: an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
thanks Bill

I was already aware of the Wersi module....the cost is prohibitive.
Also,the other stuff is really more of a PC than a module as I intend it....I am talking more in the range of 1500 euros

Is it so difficult for companies to do a module version of their keyboards? (korg,yamaha,etc)

No point for me in spending 4000 bucks on a dual core system to use Reaper on....I have already a Centrino laptop that I bought for about 300 dollars from ebay, I have Reaper on it and all the rest.

But I don't deny the fact that if I had the money to spend on something like the Wersi module or the other ones,I would probably buy one of them.

The ESS system sounds really ridicolous,plus I don't even see exact specs,no manual...I wrote to these guys and they told me that a dvd tutorial is better. Sure is,but only for people who already bought the system. Go figure

thanks for the links,though

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#267969 - 07/25/09 04:13 PM Re: an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
btw, it was just a coincidence that I mentioned the software-oriented ESS Matrix,but infact,I am more interested toward more affordable desktop arrangers....more like the Korg and Yamaha keyboards in a module format

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#267970 - 07/25/09 10:07 PM Re: an interesting arranger module
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15088
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Have you considered Ketron Midjay? I used one for a year or so, controlling it with an Edirol 61-note or Roland 76-note controller keyboard. I like it a lot. You'd have to try one to see if it's what you want.
DonM
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DonM

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#267971 - 07/26/09 06:16 AM Re: an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
hi Don, the Midjay does not have a sequencer....the only Ketron module that does,is the X4 , which I am having an hard time hunting down

I am very happy with my Genesys XP, but I want to try them all as one of them is going to be my main composing tool

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#267972 - 07/26/09 11:18 AM Re: an interesting arranger module
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
While moving away from a computer for live use is a legitimate need, as simple and stable as the needs for a MIDI sequencer are, why hobble your choices for a playback device by insisting it has a full sequencer on board? As long as it has SMF playback (and Markers would be nice!), trust me, there is NO onboard MIDI sequencer in any keyboard or module with a fraction of the power of a good sequencer like Cubase.

I would advise you do your sequencing on the computer still, then export the SMF to the module for playback. Trying to edit in detail, while staring at your composition through a tiny, non-graphical LCD screen is SUCH a return to the eighties! As long as you aren't taxing your computer with multiple VSTi's, and power hungry plug-ins, and multiple takes of audio, most computers will run a DAW if you use it just for MIDI with little hassle and instability. IMO, WAY less hassle than trying to do sequence work with such a tiny display and few editing options...

Sure, gig with the module, but compose with the computer...

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#267973 - 07/28/09 04:31 PM Re: an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Diki,yes I tried all you mentioned. I don't want a computer for -composing- music with because in -theory- it's the most powerful thing for music on Earth,but in -practice- it causes me very valuable loss of time and energy,all things that I can invest into the MUSIC.

Editing a midi recording on a good hardware sequencer is MUCH easier and immediate than on the computer. Just press a pedal to punch in,and release to punch out. Can it be easier and faster than that? I don't need to edit a single note,if I make a mistake I record again the whole phrase,it's only a couple of bars. If I can't play the part well,I practice first. At least I have a reason to waste my time practicing more and becoming a better musician,than wasting it away in frustration because the PC is always coming up with crazy problems.I can record the part at a lower speed to be as accurate as possible,then I just change the speed in the master track.

There are ways around the apparent limitations of the hardware. These limitations are so bad only because they are perceived like that,etc...

I used to make more music with a Kurzweil K2000 than with all the computer stuff....the PC is great,but it takes TONS of time that I am not prepared to spend anymore on it.

I am not throwing it away,but I want to change my approach. When it's time to study or write music,I don't want to frustrate myself anymore.

Besides,hardware arrangers still sound the best. I have used Band in a Box and all the rest,but it still does not sound nearly as good as the hardware. Simple facts. I have tried Bandstand, Soundfonts,this and that...

I have Goliath,which has an huge GM library. But try to set it for midi? It's nuts. I have spent hours and the fact is that is not GM compatible. You have to manually set each track for each sound. I just can't be bothered with that stuff anymore....too long winded,too complicated,and too many problems.



[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-28-2009).]

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#267974 - 07/28/09 04:34 PM Re: an interesting arranger module
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
I posted the same thing twice by mistake

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-28-2009).]

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#267975 - 07/29/09 12:22 PM Re: an interesting arranger module
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I wasn't really referring to using VSTi's, I know all too well how frustrating all that stuff can get. But to make a sequence for a simple MIDI module, you don't have any of those issues, a mere MIDI interface is all you need. As for having to punch in a whole phrase to fix one note, I'm afraid that seems like a lot of work for a simple problem...

Perhaps the problem was WHICH MIDI sequencer program you used in the past? Personally, I haven't YET found anything as powerful, yet intuitive as Cubase. Forget all the audio and VSTi stuff. That is the cause of most instability anyway. Just use it for MIDI, and you are good to go. But when it comes time to quickly rearrange sections of a song (to try out different structures), when it comes time to say 'I'd like all the backbeats of the drum part under 64 velocity to be a bit louder' , when it comes time to say 'I'd like to quantize ONLY the backbeats and leave the ghosting untouched on the snare' or a myriad of detail editing that is a total PITA with a hardware sequencer, the computer sequencer rules, IMO...

I simply find the visuality of the thing (being able to SEE what you are doing) a major timesaver. Perhaps you could find a friend using Cubase, and see if it makes your old sequencer look clunky... But, trust me, forget about using VSTi's and audio, and you will have a pretty stable DAW...

I used to use built-ins for years, but the minute I got my first Atari and the early Cubase, I have never looked back. I can work ten times as fast as a built in, and to a higher level. I know your experience has been different, but maybe you just had the wrong software?

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