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#267678 - 07/18/09 02:34 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4868
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Just a thought
Instead of moving the computer into the background, have you thought of trying Livestyler http://www.live-styler.de/home/ which will give all the arranger functions with all your existing sounds.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#267679 - 07/18/09 11:34 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2163
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
IF, you have a Korg PA...then you could nicely add the SD-2 or SD-4 for adding more/different voices, especially lead voices. OAND/OR you can add PC baed sounds using soft synths (East West Golath as example)

With the Korg...you can setup a user voice slot with external mode...specifying the full MIDI bank/program change data and saving it. Then, when you select a performance, OTS etc. (or even voices in a styles using user sounds) the external module will work beautifully!

I do it all the time. Its a beautiful thing.

When I had my T2, I called Yamaha support to ask about how to use a external module(how to do bank/program change) and I WAS TOLD...NO Can't do it and I DID'NT NEED THAT!

I guess that's one difference between a PRO arranger and a home keyboard. Yamaha markets as home keyboards and that's fine by me...unless you want the PRO features not in a home keyboard. Sold the T2...now have a PA2XPRO.

I sure liked a lot about the Yamaha...but I wanted some of the features in the Korg more.

Before you buy any of them...spend he time to see which one you like the sound of and which features are the most important to you!

Lee S.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#267680 - 07/18/09 11:46 PM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4819
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi,
I'm not a pro, just a hobbyist for the last 20 years or so.
I've literally had dozen's of workstations, synths, samplers & keyboards.
Wasted many years trying to get better sounds for my keyboards by adding various modules. I got caught up in the technology rather than the music.

To me it makes sense what you're trying to do. Use the keyboard to create your compositions, then use East West as substitute for sounds. I'd really think hard about putting the sd2 into the mix.
I doubt the sound quality of the sd2 would match the quality of software samples.
Maybe with a keyboard that has quality sounds, you'd be able to leave some of the style tracks in your final mix instead of replacing the lot with samples.
The yamaha's have the mega voices, korg has rx voices ( velocity switched), plus in guitar tracks you get fret noises etc. SD2 won't replicate mega or rx voices.

I hadn't fully realized what the korg rx voices were. I used to happily increase the velocity of a track, when converting a psr style to korg. PSR tracks are recorded at a much lower velocity than korg styles.
Eventually realized I shouldn't use RX sounds in a style, unless the style is recorded from scratch.
I'd used some sort of an RX funk guitar in the conversion. Didn't realize that a velocity of just say 40 triggered a totally different sound to velocity of just say 60 & sound changed again at an even higher velocity.
If that RX sound had been used in an onboard korg style, & I played that style via the sd2, it would have sounded all wrong. To me, some style tracks are best played by the keyboard they were written for, unless you decide to rerecord them in the actual composition or rerecord the style track to suit the soundsource.
( Korg style editing functions are really good)

Anyway good luck with your keyboard quest.


best wishes
Rikki



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 07-18-2009).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

SX900, PA800, Band in a Box 2019
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#267681 - 07/19/09 06:45 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
Just a thought
Instead of moving the computer into the background, have you thought of trying Livestyler http://www.live-styler.de/home/ which will give all the arranger functions with all your existing sounds.

Bill


Hi Abacus,yes it's an interesting program,but for that I already have One Man Band, which I think is better because it has a sequencer as well. Regardless,the solution is not getting another program,but to change approach entirely. Just to give an idea, I have tried again yesterday to compose with the PC and fired up One Man Band. I went into Sequencer mode,recorded,and what happened? Only the backing track was recorded,not the main melody that I played.

I didn't even bother to write emails,log into forums,ask people why OMB would not record the main part,etc,as it would take me another bunch of hours,not to mention the energy....

And I bet that if I even take 3 hours and fix that problem,another problem will appear.
Goliath is great,yeah,but only the sounds are great. The program is terrible. it's not a stable program at all. It frequently causes Reaper to crash. The support staff is useless. In fact,I bought it merely because Eastwest were doing a 'buy 1 get 1 free' promotion,so I got Symphony Orchestra Gold for free. So I would not say it was a complete waste of money,soon or later I'll get it to work ,but not to write music with. This stuff is just not up to the task,unless you are Hans Zimmer and have your personal techs that will fix things for you...

It would be all fantastic if it worked well,but sadly,it doesn't...this stuff is only great to produce music that has already been previously written,not to write music with. Unless you accept constant frustration and stress....I think life is too short to spend behind computer problem-solving.



[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-19-2009).]

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#267682 - 07/19/09 07:04 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
hi Rikki,thanks, well you say you are not a pro,but if you've been using this stuff for 20 years,I wouldn't say that you aren't...

Actually your thoughts about the SD2 really helped me because I didn't know things would be so fussy. I will just use the internal sounds of whatever I am using.

By the way,I just bought a GEM Genesys XP expander that I found used but as new,for about half the price of a new one.
Man,I feel like I am breathing again. I am currently using it with my EMu x-board 61 which is not bad (semi-weighted keys) but I think I'll now buy a weighted-keys M audio controller ,which does not cost a lot.

The Genesys has very good sounds,at first I could only see the main 128 presets and thought 'ok good,but that's it?' . Then I found a sort of hidden menu where I can get a lits of about 1400 sounds! Some of them are called 'Real' (realguitar,etc) and are pretty good for a guy who owns two Eastwest libraries!

The Genesys even has a sampler,at first I thought that a mere 32 mb for sampling would be next to useless,but I even sampled a violin sound from Eastwest and shrank it to about 20 mb ,lol
It took hours ,though,but it can be done!

I am feeling like a musician again. I just press 'record' in the sequencer,and I listen back my ideas. And no crashes and stupid errors happened! Brilliant!

I might still want to get a Korg PA arranger,though,as what you said about it , made my head buzz....eh eh

thanks ,I really enjoy these forums

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#267683 - 07/19/09 04:11 PM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4819
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi ,
congratulations.
One of the few brands I haven't owned over the years, only because they weren't as readily available here in Aust. as Korg, Yamaha, Roland.

I wish some of the other companies would go back to producing arranger modules.

The Gem forum on Synthzone , doesn't appear to be very active anymore, but there are a number of users floating round General Arranger forum, so if you have any questions, maybe post on General forum instead.

As for me, I'm a very content Korg PA800 user nowadays, PA2X would have been nice, but I wanted the portability of inbuilt speakers.

I enjoyed the couple of years or so I spent using software arrangers. I had my little setup of dell laptop, omb, & soundfonts
( for style tracks only )working reasonably well. I was slowly putting together xg mapped drums soundfont, to save me having to edit the psr style drum tracks.
My laptop died, had to be replaced with an early dell dual core & my headaches began using the setup that used to run perfectly on my old pc.

I bought a Ketron SD1+, poor style editing functions, so didn't end up suiting me.
( I think that's when I started to check about Gem's)

Bought PSR 1500 instead of a Tyros, because I wasn't sure Yamaha would suit me 100% either.
Bought SD2 ( for OMB ) just in case I sold my SD1, mainly for the Live Drums ( they're close but not 100% identical to SD1 Live Drums, not the same quality either)

And then for me, 3rd time lucky, I bought the PA800.

Hope the Gem works out for you.

If you decide to check into Korgs a bit further, I'm usually floating about here & on the Korg Forums.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by arranger_yes_pc_no:
[B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

SX900, PA800, Band in a Box 2019
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#267684 - 07/20/09 02:45 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Hi Rikki,

I totally agree about module arrangers! I am a module arranger guy,even wrote to Roland a while ago asking to do some full-flight module arranger.

The Genesys is great,too bad that the company closed,as I would have liked to see more updates for the system. It has a fantastic screen and I am really LOVING the immediacy of hardware again: you just turn it on and get on with your stuff. You don't have to kill yourself with always new problems.

I understand what you said about your laptop dying and from then on everything started to go bad with the setup. That's exactly what happened to me: I have changed system (to a better one),reinstalled everything, and nothing seemed to work anymore! Just mental...they give problems suddenly,for no apparent reason.

I am 36 and just can't afford to live the rest of my life solving silly PC problems.

Genesys: welcome in my life! You are a Genesis for me indeed,lol

Thanks Rikki for mentioning the GEM forums,good idea. Best wishes,Salvo

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#267685 - 07/20/09 07:47 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
I tried to download a manual of the PA800 but can't find it anywhere...

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-20-2009).]

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#267686 - 07/20/09 10:55 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4868
Loc: English Riviera, UK
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#267687 - 07/20/09 02:42 PM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
thanks,but I can't seem to download it....I have actually tried before writing my post,sorry about the confusion

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