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#267668 - 07/17/09 04:49 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
hey Bernie,if the GM bank's quality is equal to the other banks,that's great because with the arranger I only intend to work with GM and midi files.

The role of the Ketron SD2 would be basically to play GM sounds of high quality -while- I am composing. I think mine is a good guess that the GM sounds of the SD2 are superior to any arranger keyboard? Would you agree with that?

Can you use at least the GM bank of the SD2 without tweaking anything ,and does your arranger recalls the correct patches from the module? From Rikki's reply and yours, I seem to understand that the Ketron is not good if you want to use all the sounds,but there are no problems if you use the GM bank with an arranger. Am I correct?Thanks

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-17-2009).]

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#267669 - 07/17/09 04:58 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Abacus,yes the SD4 seems to have what the sd2 does not have,but it's more bulky and costly.
Ketron gear seems to be very good but they seem to make people pay for every button they put on it...

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#267670 - 07/17/09 08:01 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
hitman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 325
Loc: VA/ USA
Your money would be better spent investing into a modern computer set-up! No arranger or module on the market will sound as good as the East-West/Goliath collection.
In addition, most of the computer sequencers available today are 10 times more powerful than any arranger sequencer.

Computers are not flaky if the right hardware is used and setup properly!

Just my opinion!

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#267671 - 07/17/09 08:16 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 4628
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Let me explain how I have used the SD2's. The first was used with a Midisport interface to play SMF's from my laptop. The second was controlled by my Axiom 61 controller. The SMF's were of better quality than my Echo soundcard and my Technics Kn7000. It was close to my Roland G70, but not quite(my subjective opinion only). It being multitimbral,it played all SMF's fine. Please note that I only use a controller to play lead sounds, which are excellent. My arrangers have not been used with the SD2, so I cannot say. I can tell you that LSB is not used, only MSB and program #'s. Rikki has more experience with other kb's.
Bernie

[This message has been edited by Bernie9 (edited 07-17-2009).]
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#267672 - 07/17/09 10:22 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally posted by hitman:
Your money would be better spent investing into a modern computer set-up! No arranger or module on the market will sound as good as the East-West/Goliath collection.
In addition, most of the computer sequencers available today are 10 times more powerful than any arranger sequencer.

Computers are not flaky if the right hardware is used and setup properly!

Just my opinion!



true,but it's all theory,my friend. Computers will -always- be flaky,no matter what you have or what is your experience.
In almost 10 years of using them,I have seen it for myself. You will always get problems because new stuff is always coming out and you want to get it in your computer. And that will likely create problems

Goliath sounds are killers,that's absolutely true,but with that also comes all the headache: error messages,and all that crap. Currently I cannot use it because it's not working well with my Edirol soundcard,which never gave me problems.

Now,you get all these obstacles when you want to just turn the damn thing on and study and compose. How good is that?
Computers are great,but not for composition. Only to produce a killer product. I will do better composing with a Yamaha keyboard,write all the parts,then export them as a midi file,get them into Cubase or whatever,and substitute the sounds with Goliath sounds. But for writing the music,forget it.....I have had it. Sometimes I am unable to study or practice at all because there's always something that won't work.
I have used Band In a Box,One Man Band....this stuff is not new to me. Hardware is more limited,but the paradox is that it makes you a lot more efficient. Instead of wasting hours figuring out why my ASIO drivers are not working,I could have learned something new,a new piece,a new music concept.

Just ask other users here,like Rikki,why he went back to hardware arrangers. Yes computer are incredibly powerful and ridicolously cheap these days. But they make you pay with stress and frustration. I was making more music 12 years ago with a Kurzweil K2000 and a Korg D12 recorder than with Goliath.
Just the sad truth,for me....

My computer setup is not weak at all....dual core and 2 gig or ram. Nowadays power is not a problem. But reliability and stability will always be.
I prefer to spend some money,have less impressive sounds,but when I turn the thing on,I am pretty sure it won't interrupt me or frustrate me with absurd errors of all kind.
Amen,brother.....

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#267673 - 07/17/09 10:31 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
thank you Bernie. So you mean that the Roland G70 seems to sound better than the Ketron SD? wow

I had someone recommend a Roland SC-88 VL module....anybody here knows how good or bad it is?

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#267674 - 07/17/09 03:19 PM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
hitman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 325
Loc: VA/ USA
If you are looking for a module, check out Roland's sonic-cell!

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#267675 - 07/17/09 04:02 PM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4470
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi,
if I understand correctly, what you're hoping to do is, use the keyboard to record your composition ( using styles??) then use sd2 as soundsource for the final recording?? instead of using the keyboards internal sounds, even for the style tracks?

The sd2 won't play back the psr drum tracks 100% correctly without remapping some of them, velocity of certain drum types may need adjusting also. If you download the Technical data manuals & do a comparison of the drum maps , you'll see what I mean.
Mainly the drum notes below note 35( bass drum). GM & XG differs, and a number of psr styles use these drums.

I was actually midi-ing the sd2 to my psr in style play mode, not in sequencer mode.
Do a thorough check of the midi specs in sequencer mode . I've never used the sequencer, maybe the options in sequencer mode are better than in style mode.

Either way, if you're hoping to just get on with composing & not having to tweak sounds & remap drums etc, ( for the style tracks )you'd really be better off buying a keyboard with sounds & styles you like & get on with your composing.

I've spent a bit of time converting some of my psr styles across to korg format( from a midi file), & discovered some of the pitfalls.

best wishes
Rikki




[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 07-17-2009).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2018
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#267676 - 07/18/09 01:54 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally posted by hitman:
If you are looking for a module, check out Roland's sonic-cell!


thanks,but I am looking for a GM module that will work well with my keyboard,not with my PC.

also,sonic-cell seems to be pretty expensive and has features that I don't need (audio interface; for that I will have the Tascam multitracker)

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-18-2009).]

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-18-2009).]

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 07-18-2009).]

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#267677 - 07/18/09 02:20 AM Re: korg pa500 or Yamaha psr-s700 ? Ketron SD-2 ?
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally posted by rikkisbears:
Hi,
if I understand correctly, what you're hoping to do is, use the keyboard to record your composition ( using styles??) then use sd2 as soundsource for the final recording?? instead of using the keyboards internal sounds, even for the style tracks?

The sd2 won't play back the psr drum tracks 100% correctly without remapping some of them, velocity of certain drum types may need adjusting also. If you download the Technical data manuals & do a comparison of the drum maps , you'll see what I mean.
Mainly the drum notes below note 35( bass drum). GM & XG differs, and a number of psr styles use these drums.

I was actually midi-ing the sd2 to my psr in style play mode, not in sequencer mode.
Do a thorough check of the midi specs in sequencer mode . I've never used the sequencer, maybe the options in sequencer mode are better than in style mode.

Either way, if you're hoping to just get on with composing & not having to tweak sounds & remap drums etc, ( for the style tracks )you'd really be better off buying a keyboard with sounds & styles you like & get on with your composing.

I've spent a bit of time converting some of my psr styles across to korg format( from a midi file), & discovered some of the pitfalls.

best wishes
Rikki


[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 07-17-2009).]


hi Rikki,yes I want to do quick demos of my compositions using styles: the idea is to come up with the structure ,the themes,the chords,the parts,record them,and to have a demo of my idea,that I can listen back to and judge if the idea is worth pursuing further.
I think that this way is an huge time saver...instead of programming everything from scratch (the drums,etc, the so-called 'Linear sequencing' ) the arranger would provide for me an immediate rhythm section,just so that I make a demo and listen back to. That's what I always liked about arrangers even though I have never played or worked in hotels or piano bars (which I think can be nice too! )

With the Ketron SD, I was hoping that I would be able to use it with an arranger ,while I compose,just so that I am playing in real time with the best possible sounds,as this influences a lot the way you are improvising the parts,the dynamics you put into.

then,once I have the complete tracks done ,with all the main parts,I would import them as a midi file in my PC. I would substitute all the sounds with the sounds from Eastwest,for the best possible results (I might even leave the original Ketron sounds,as most sounds seems to be very good. ) Then I don't care if the computer gives me errors or if it crashes....I would be still happy because the music has been written efficiently. From then on,it would only be a matter of doing the final editing tweaks (I am planning to do much of the editing with the arranger as well. Less features,but more efficiency because there are no interruptions or problems).

So the arranger,the Tascam DP and the Ketron SD would be my main writing source,and use the PC only after the composing has been written.

But now I am seriously considering what you have said about just getting the sounds from the keyboard and thus getting the best possible sounding keyboard I can get. It makes sense because it saves lots of time and effort.

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