Patty & I were thirsty after a bike ride this evening, so we rode down to the Square here in town and wandered into a small spot noted for its wine and cigars. We don't drink or smoke, but we did avail ourselves of other beverages and some appetizers.

This club, that seats maybe 45 people tops, (tonight, probably about 25-30 people were there,) features live music on Fri/Sat evenings. Everything from solo dulcimer to bluegrass bands and everything in between. I used to play it about 5 years ago, but they are looking for a younger sound and really prefer acoustic guitars being involved somehow.

Tonight it was a duo. A big guy with a tiny hat played a 12 string and did some very basic background vocals. A woman sang and played a little harmonica.

They did some Joplin, they did Dust in the Wind, some country stuff I didn't know and of all songs the Black Horse & Cherry Tree tune Cass suggested.

I didn't enjoy it. I tried, but it just didn't happen.

We sat in the back of a long, rather narrow room. We tried to talk but it was difficult because of how loud they were. The PA was the house system, some low end, unrecognizable brand. They had two 15's out front-I couldn't make out the brand.

PA wise, everything smashed you in the face, especially the ladies vocals. She had a strong voice but my lord, it was so dry it just made you cringe when she really belted it out.

His guitar playing was adequate, but not interesting at all. I understand the limitations with their set up, but a 12 string has a unique sound and after 3-4 songs, I got tired of it.

Everything they played sounded the same to me. Partly because their song selection and renditions were all basically the same approach. Partly because every song had guitar, a solo female vocal and that's it.

What would I have suggested to them to make them more appealing to me?

Tweak their PA system at the very least in adding a bit more reverb or delay or something to make her sound smoother and more pleasing...

Asked her to learn some other instrument. I don't care if its bongos, they need something to change things up.

Playing with MIDI tracks might not be a bad idea...

I would also suggest adding a Harmony G. That would add some contrast to the tunes.

I would also pick different songs...they needed to do something other than medium, fast strumming stuff.

She had a nice voice, but again, there was no variation in how I heard her use it...

IMO, there was too little attention to detail. It was like "Hey, I'm playing the chords-groovy...Hey, I'm singing the songs-also groovy!"

We left after the first set...I smiled at her as we walked past them. It bummed me out that I was so non-enthused about what I'd just heard...

Just thought I'd share this...

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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 06-20-2009).]

Interesting report Bill

I stopped going to live music many years ago, mainly because of the overpowering volume the artists used. So much so that it was positively painful (I mean REAL pain)to my ears.
For me, this killed the enjoyment.

What I didn't see in your thoughts was how many of the audience were actually listening to the artists. I suppose the music was so loud you could not tell if they were talking (or shouting at each other, which is what you usually have to do in order to be heard)

cheers
Eddie

Good and bad in all forms of entertainment, I'd say... From live to OMB and everything in between.

Sorry you caught a bad one, but don't give up... Probably the same advice you'd give someone that just heard a bad OMB, too.

Eddie-

Of the 25-30 people there, I'd say at least a dozen were paying attention. The rest included about a half dozen at the bar who were kind of into it and the rest weren't.

Imagine an elongated shoe box, with the stage at one of the the box. That's the space I'm describing. Patty & I were at the rear most table and we had to shout just to be heard.

Diki-

You're right...I think part of my response to them was that, IMHO, they could have been much more entertaining with more attention to detail. Other than everything sounding the same, I just didn't hear much creativity at all. No modulations, no breakdowns, no nothing...

If we agree that their act was in their eyes, even in some way, a "finished product" I would disagree. I don't think its club ready. We all constantly look to improve our acts, but I would counsel these guys that you're not finished with these tunes, you've just learned how to play them-Now, make them your own and make them interesting.

I also wondered more than once last night am I just being a snob?

I really didn't think so...I think its about standards. Sure, I'm more critical than the guys at the table next to us. This is Troy frickin Ohio and we're not exactly on the cutting edge of anything, lol...

Its great they're out there having fun and I suppose that's the most important thing.

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Bill in Dayton


[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 06-21-2009).]

I bet if they were using a BOSE or Podium speaker system they would have sounded soooo much better....

Bill...I might add the most common deficiency I see in maybe 95% of live music I come upon. No instrumental "rides.”. No one knows how to play their instruments anymore. It's all about vocals and guitar strumming now. And even that is unimaginative and of poor quality.

I also think that if players "improved" their sound systems, it would only work to their detriment by highlighting their humdrum playing/singing.

Sadly, the bar has been lowered and acceptance of this kind of performance is quite common now, even on television (especially some of these bands that close the late night talk shows). Diki hit it right on the button when he said something about "embracing this level of low quality musicianship puts the average person in the ball park where they can also be accepted for their own "low quality playing" (though Diki articulated it better than I just did).

Can you imagine if anyone had to practice for years to sing like Pavarotti or play guitar like Eric Clapton? It just wouldn't happen....easier to lower the bar, get an Idiot's Guide to being a Professional Musician, and go out and assault the audience!

In the 70’s, I could go to any bar/restaurant/playing venue and sit and listen to a keyboard player or guitarist in a band belt out really creative riffs and fills. You couldn’t help but get better on your own instrument being surrounded by quality music wherever you went. I hear very little of anything nowadays that I could work off of or learn from.

Lucky

Bill...I might add the most common deficiency I see in maybe 95% of live music I come upon. No instrumental "rides.”. No one knows how to play their instruments anymore. It's all about vocals and guitar strumming now. And even that is unimaginative and of poor quality.

I also think that if players "improved" their sound systems, it would only work to their detriment by highlighting their humdrum playing/singing.

Sadly, the bar has been lowered and acceptance of this kind of performance is quite common now, even on television (especially some of these bands that close the late night talk shows). Diki hit it right on the button when he said something about "embracing this level of low quality musicianship puts the average person in the ball park where they can also be accepted for their own "low quality playing" (though Diki articulated it better than I just did).

Can you imagine if anyone had to practice for years to sing like Pavarotti or play guitar like Eric Clapton? It just wouldn't happen....easier to lower the bar, get an Idiot's Guide to being a Professional Musician, and go out and assault the audience!

In the 70’s, I could go to any bar/restaurant/playing venue and sit and listen to a keyboard player or guitarist in a band belt out really creative riffs and fills. You couldn’t help but get better on your own instrument being surrounded by quality music wherever you went. I hear very little of anything nowadays that I could work off of or learn from.

Nice post you submitted here....thanks for taking the time to write it. I thought I was the only one who noticed this phenomenon!

Lucky

Good topic, Bill, and what you happened upon passes for 'entertainment' around here, too.

Everyone's remarks are right on the money. There HAS been a steady degradation in the quality that's out there. But you see, these guys got the gig and the owner had his room at 70% or so capacity (maybe he doesn't pay enough to attract a better quality of act.)

Now, whether they get many gigs is another question, but if they're NOT getting that many then maybe they don't have the cash to spend on a decent PA, harmonisers, fx units, etc. - a sort of chicken or egg question, really.

And I don't get how a solo acoustic guitar, unless it's in some exceptional hands, can be of interest for an entire evening - but what do I know, I'm only a keyboard player. Audiences must be zoned out at some level. That said, I'd be pretty well zoned out as well in those circumstances.

The PA issues are the easiest to fix. Even on the cheapy system the house provided, some basic reverb could taken down a few notches in her voice...

I think a great PA, regardless of make would've been kinder to her than him. Even though the tunes were very similar and they stayed away from any ballads, there's still some natural organic fluctuations in timbre, color, etc. She could sing, no doubt about it. The guitar guy...I don't want to sound like an ass, but he could play chords and strum.

Reminds me of the old Truman Capote quote: "That's not writing, that's typing!"

Cheers-

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Bill in Dayton

I have to admit, from what I have heard submitted to this forum from our members, these young players aren't the only ones incapable (or unwilling) to take a ride or solo. All too often, it seems that many are simply happy to be able to play the melody, and leave it at that. Simply repeating it with different sounds doesn't really count...

I can also remember pretty much the same criticism (too simple, no real skill) being said by the 30's and 40's musicians, when THEY heard rock and roll, and then rock There has always been complex music and simple music popular at the same time. Some of those bigband 'classics' are little more than repeated riffs, while Ellington was writing mini-symphonies. There IS complexity in modern music, but much of it has moved over to rhythm, rather than melodic aspects. Try composing a REALLY good hiphop groove if you don't believe me. It's a LOT more complex that you think!

Music is SO cyclical. The exact same criticisms were being leveled at punk rock when it first came out in the seventies. It went on to influence almost everything rock in today's music. But in between, 'corporate rock' and 'progressive' had their heyday...

Don't like today's music? Hang around a few years. It WILL change again...