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#263173 - 05/15/09 05:15 PM Re: Bose compact vs Podium 802's vs Logitech Z5500
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Jerry sorry I long ago sold the Barbettas 32c's & I also sold my Bose Pas speakers too......
I havent tried the compact yet but possibly next week Fran & I will get a chance to do it somewhere soon.

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#263174 - 05/15/09 07:49 PM Re: Bose compact vs Podium 802's vs Logitech Z5500
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
This is where we differ...I take pride in sounding my best at every gig.

It seems you suffer more from complacency than lack of confidence.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-15-2009).]


Yeah perhaps.....but the audience is far more important than I and if they don't notice the difference who am I to force something upon them at additional expense and time investment they won't appreciate. Seems like something I would do for solely for myself and MY enjoyment of my own show.

I enjoy performing equally whether at an Amphitheater in Utah on a warm Summer's bight or through a single Bose system in a room of 100 people. I have had to do shows through some real crappy sound systems in my 15 years on the road and some really really nice systems. I guess I am thicker skinned in that regard. I had no choice but to go on with the show. I learned to ignore the minutea of the technicalities. The Bose System is most like a really nice system......even just one. LOL
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Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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#263175 - 05/16/09 01:01 AM Re: Bose compact vs Podium 802's vs Logitech Z5500
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
I guess that precludes using a T3 - for the confident performer, it's unlikely that the audience would notice the difference between that and a Casio (we have all heard amazing demos from talented - no doubt confident - performers using these), or, come to think of it, a Bose sound system...

If you are confident enough, a pair of 802's would satisfy your audience, if in a small enough room.

It's interesting to hear you denigrate the use of a stereo Bose PA, without for one minute considering the absurdity, by your own argument, of the need for a mono one either...

Confidence, if applied according to your rules, would negate even the need for that. So, what is your insecurity? Do you think your karaoke tracks sound better on the Bose? A confident singer wouldn't worry about that...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#263176 - 05/16/09 11:05 PM Re: Bose compact vs Podium 802's vs Logitech Z5500
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 541
Loc: Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
The first time I heard a Bose L1 was about three years ago, when I did a PSR-3000 clinic with a local client, who I'll call Donald.

He sings, plays guitar, and makes his own SMF which he uses for background accompaniment.

We were in a small hall, where he plays quite often, and I was immediately impressed with the Bose L1's sound coverage, but less than enamoured with the thin sound of the 3K's accompaniment.

I was using a 3K at that time and was used to hearing it in stereo, through two powered monitors, which I still have, and I was struck by the difference, both when I walked around the room, and when I sat and played chords...the L1 was off to my right, and a bit behind me.

I did notice the piano was thinner when I played it on it's own, and it sounded thinner in the accompaniment when it was part of a style....some of the guitars were the same way...overall it was acceptable, but it was far from good enough to my ears to make me go out and buy one, even though I wanted a system that could fill a room the way the Bose did..

Mind you, Donald was very pleased with the Bose, and liked it more than the PA he had the year before, which was also a mono system...two cabinets, and a powered mixer...he mainly liked how well the Bose filled the room, but he did not comment that the 3K sounded better.

Seeing he was quite happy with the Bose, I said nothing.

Last week he and his wife were at one of my gigs,( I was playing all instrumental music) and heard the S900 through two L1's in stereo...needless to say, both of them were more than impressed with the sound, and, after my gig, we plugged in a Flashdrive which he still had in his jacket pocket from the night before, and I played several of his SMF whilst he walked around the room.

The bottom line is that he bought another L1...so I guess it takes hearing one (or two in this case) to actually change someones view.

I use the same keyboard pan/effects settings with the two Bose that I use with the two powered speakers I had been using (and still use occasionally)...I don't "hard pan" anything, but the sounds are panned, especially if there are two guitars in the accompaniment...one is panned at 10 o'clock and the other at 2...I also sometimes pan the phrase tracks if I'm using similar sounds in both, and they are set to the same 10 and 2 positions.

To me, and to Donald as well, the sound of the two Bose is far more open, the stereo separation is present nearly everywhere...in other words, the stereo "sweet spot" is substantially increased.

He said that even his vocals sounded better, especially when he panned the vocal harmonizer tracks.

I have had quite a few people from the audience comment on how great the two Bose sound., and no complaints about it sounding too loud, something I had to be concerned about using conventional speakers.

Just as it is hard (more like impossible) to describe to someone who has not heard the Bose, just how well it fills a room, it is equally as difficult to convey to someone how good two sound in stereo.

My suggestion is thus...if you're happy with the way your single Bose sounds, don't ever listen to it in stereo.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-14-2009).]


Ian, after thinking about this awhile, I think we need to hear keyboards (other than Yamaha brands) through Model 1 and 2 systems - preferably through Normal L1's AND Compacts.

I would also, for the comparison, suggest using two Model 1 Bose('s) as the Model 1 provides less coverage in a room compared to the Model 2 (thanks to the Model 2's articulated speakers) and it would be easier to determine stereo separation - particularly in smaller venues - with Model 1's.
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God I hate signatures.

BUT...

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#263177 - 05/17/09 03:11 AM Re: Bose compact vs Podium 802's vs Logitech Z5500
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by hellboy44:
Ian, after thinking about this awhile, I think we need to hear keyboards (other than Yamaha brands) through Model 1 and 2 systems - preferably through Normal L1's AND Compacts.



I agree, as some Yamaha's tend not to collapse to mono very well, where as Roland seems to do a better job, and therefore may not benefit as much with two systems.

I did try a buddy's Roland G1000 through my system, through a single, and then both, and we agreed the sound had much more stereo spread with the latter setup.

As with the Yamaha, the stereo spread is heard nearly everywhere in the room...I don't really know why, as I'm no expert on acoustics, but I do know what my ears tell me...perhaps someone with detailed knowledge of how array systems work, could explain why this happens.

Not sure how the G70 or Korg PA-series would do...I can't see them sounding worse through two systems, although maybe the benefits won't be as dramatic.

Even my inexpensive Yamaha P-85 digital piano sounds way better through two systems...again, I don't know how other brands would fare...maybe someone else will have a chance to make some tests/comparisons.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#263178 - 05/17/09 07:14 AM Re: Bose compact vs Podium 802's vs Logitech Z5500
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 541
Loc: Australia
Well I'm currently using a Korg PA1x Pro Elite and 97% of the time, there are no Mono Summing problems. I say 97% because the 3% of problems I do have are simply times when I'm playing a Midi Sequence and trigger another (on the other onboard sequencer) and fleetingly the sound gets noticeably thinner and "phasier" (it's a word, look it up ) and yet the mono sound is great overall.

I'd be surprised if the PAx2 isn't just as good, if not better.
_________________________
God I hate signatures.

BUT...

www.chi-chi.com.au

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#263179 - 05/17/09 07:39 AM Re: Bose compact vs Podium 802's vs Logitech Z5500
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Well, if you're happy, then you needn't change...stick with what you have....save yourself some considerable loot.

I didn't like the way the Yamaha sounded in mono...thin and one dimensional, comes to mind.

They sound the same way if I play through one of my powered monitors.

I certainly have no regrets getting the two Bose, and perhaps, if you try your PA1XPro through a pair of Bose L1, or whatever kind you choose, then you might find the difference substantial enough to invest, like I did....if not, no big deal, as long as you are content with your present sound.

A nice by-product of using two speakers of any kind, is if one happens to fail for whatever reason, you still have one as a backup...not going to sound quite the same (but having one Bose still maintains great coverage), but certainly better than not having any.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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