Hello all, I am trying to decide between three boards, the YAMAHA MOTIF ES6, the ROLAND JUNO-G, or the KORG TR61?

I am a guitarist for 20 years. My playing includes blues rock to hard rock/prog metal to ambient. My experience with outboard synths/modules, etc., have been the Roland Sound Canvas 33, then the 88Pro with a cheap 61-key controller, that's it. I use to be involved in PC based recording, but have since lost the studio space (equipment in storage now) and basically lost music for a few years. I am now wanting to get back to it, but in a more streamlined fashion. I got burnt out with the studio setup because ideas got lost with the "utility" of making things work. I want to spend more time on playing than working out the tech difficulties of a larger/PC based setup.

Unfortunately, these three keyboards are not available anywhere near me to audition/compare. I have been doing that online and have been unable to find enough info to decide, so I'm asking all you experts in the forum. I have heard them only through a couple "demo songs" for each keyboard, but none have demos of the drum kit sounds and most demos are techno/dance which is not what I'm looking for!

HERE'S WHAT I NEED (IN ORDER OF IMPORTANCE):

#1 - the best drum sounds for rock/metal/blues?

-I need great drum sounds (rockin', heavy, crisp) for my guitar-based stuff. Ranges from blues (Gary Moore/SRV) to hard rock (Satriani/Vai) to Power-Prog Metal (Dream Theater/Stratovarius). I need the most and varied patterns to get a drum track together quickly and easily (or ability to get from the net and load into keyboard). Also, good bass guitar and piano sounds and good horns for the blues!

#2 - A simple (and quickest to lay down ideas) built-in sequencer as I want to create everything sans PC. I have never used a hardware sequencer before, so one that is easy yet feature-packed would be nice. I'd prefer a 16-track, but could live with an 8-track.

#3 - Good "on-the-fly" synth sounds!

-Would like decent synth sounds for my ambient stuff (Steve Roach/Vangelis). I do not want a synth to tweak for hours on end through a barrage of menus, just a bunch of nice, warm, ethereal pads and effects. Also, decent orchestral strings, choirs and such. I'm into composing film music as well.

#4 - MIDI ports! I can't believe how many upper level boards have a USB only for midi. I would like to use this to 'directly' control modules if need be and I would like to control this keyboard with a guitar synth interface. I have a GK2 equipped guitar with a Roland DI-10 to midi into a keyboard/module.

#5 - Polyphony, at least 32 (more preferred) since I am not a keyboard player I layer many tracks to get my accompaniment down. Ya know, 1 track for left hand, 1 track for right, etc.,

#6 - Some kind of drive except floppy (SM, SD, CF) that allows sequence to be saved to it and taken to a pc sequencer if I want to later on. Also, take old sequences, put on the card and bring them up on the keyboard to finish.

WHAT I DO NOT WANT/NEED:

-Rap/Hip Hop/Techno/Dance-based keyboards or sounds (not my use)

-A keyboard that you have to have masters in computer science to get going. When I had a PC-based system, I spent plenty of time on "sound designing" and not music. I am done with that. I want to press a button and the sound is there. Having to add some fx is fine though.

-A keyboard with awesome guitar sounds. I play all my guitar parts on guitar so I do not need realistic sounding guitars on a keyboard.

-76 or 88-keys, semi-weighted, fully-weighted, this action, that action. As I am not a keyboard/piano player, I really don't know the difference. I just want at least 61 keys (to avoid pitching the octaves like on the smaller keyboards).

KEYBOARDS THAT I HAVE ELIMINATED FROM MY CHOICES:

Korg Karma - Seems like it needs a lot of tweaking to get the most out of it. Don't like the floppy drive.

Korg Triton Classic - Only has half the sample-rom of the TR61 and a floppy drive. Ten year old technology.
(If I am I wrong about this and it is better than a TR61, please tell me why, I have no idea?)

Yamaha PSR-S550 - Looked like it could get accompaniments together fast, but with only USB midi, I can't trigger the sounds with my guitar synth interface. The demo for it (with the Asian lady) is terrible. It makes it seem like just another PSR with more features, but overpriced. I'd think a Motif is this and more???

Yamaha MM6 - Sounds OK. It seems to have too basic of a sequencer?

Yamaha MiniMo - It seems too difficult to use and I don't want to spend time on getting things to work!

Yamaha Motif 6 (original) - Has half the sample-rom and polyphony of the Motif ES6.


Please reply with you thoughts/opinions/experiences, any help is much appreciated!

Uncle Buck

Hmmmm..., interesting First.., in the drums area (with the boards you've listed for consideration) IMO I think the Juno-G has better acoustic drums. All three models you've listed have good guitar sounds plus all three have effects sections more than capable of taking a medicore guitar patch and making it sound much better, but the TR is only limited to ONE insert effect where as the ES and Juno G can run multiple inserts in a performance.

Poly.., in regards to the boards you listed.., the TR-61 is on the bottom end. Both the ES and Juno G have 128 note and if memory serves me correctly the TR only has 62 note poly.

All three of these boards have good synth sounds too. That area def falls down to personal taste, but all three cover the synth patches very well. However, you mentioned that sounds for electronica such as rap, hip hip ect aren't what you're looking for. You gotta keep in mind that this is the area these boards have always thrived in. All three boards you listed CAN produce good traditional styles of music.., but understand they're synth workstations and they'll be choc full of modern sounds geared towards electronica.

For ease of use.., if you thought the MiniMo (and in this case I'm going to assume you're speaking of the Yamaha MO series as you listed MiniMo and MM6 separately) was too difficult to use. If that's the case then scratch the Motif ES off your list. The MO series IS based on and built around the Motif ES. These two boards essentially have VERY idential OS's too. If you felt the MO was a bit difficult the actual ES version will most likely be MORE difficult for you as it has more features.

Looking at these three boards and taking your particular needs into account I think the Juno-G fits your needs best. The Motif ES is the MORE PRO model of the three, but you already stated the MO series was difficult. I say the Juno-G because.., it has great drum kits.., good pianos, good bases, decent brass, and would handle your styles of music with ease. It's also not difficult to use. PLUS the Juno-G has a built in 4 track audio recorder (something that would probably be right up your street as you could mix your live guitar licks with your midi tracks--I'd suggest expanded the memory of course).., and that brings me to another point. The Juno G is expandable! You can expand your memory..., AND you can add an SRX expansion board. For your needs I would strongly suggest you look into the SRX-01 (Drum expansion board) or the SRX-03 (Studio expansion board) as these boards BOTH have sound sets tailored to what you need. http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=384&ParentId=37
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=386&ParentId=37

These links will take you to some great demos of these two SRX boards.

The TR can be expanded with sampling, but that's at an extra cost.

Good luck!

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-21-2009).]

Just a remark,

MiniMO is 'nickname' for MM line of keyboards (MM6 or MM8), and MO (MO6 and MO8) is just MO (although they share only the same synthesis method /AWM2/ and couple of sounds, while in all other aspects they are quite different).

On the other hand, MO series could be rightfully called MiniMotif ES (not MiniMo) because they are quite similar to Motif ES line.

;-)

Yes I agree..., the MO series really is the rightful title holder of MiniMo. The MM6 just ain't no MO..., that's fo sho

Yes.., there's a HUGE difference between the MM6 and MO6. The MM6 may have arps based on the ES line but the Motif flavored sounds on the MM6 are based on the Motif CLASSIC. The MO series has an ES sound engine and IS a stripped down ES.

I can't tell you how many people I've helped with the MO series who moved up from the MM6 expecting the MO's to be just as easy to operate.

The MM6 does have some decent sounds though. If you're not too keen on going real indepth with tweeking patches it's not such a bad keyboard. However.., it doesn't hold a candle to the sound set you get on the MO series.

The MM6 and MO's really are two totally different keyboards when you look at them more closely.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-21-2009).]

I second the Juno G...

Thanks for the responses! This definitely gives me more to consider...

I keep hearing that Korg is the easiest to use (sequencing), but then lower models leave out feautures I want. I do like the Yamaha Mo6/8 & Motif sounds, but the complexity of using it and the sequencer is a dealbreaker. The Juno-G has many features and then some (the 4 tracks of audio recording), but it doesn't sound much better than my SC88Pro (listening to Roland's demos) and having to buy additional expansion boards to get the sounds I want (like the drum exp board) is a bummer.

I'm tempted to go back to a PC and use my old 61-key controller with my Roland module and also pick up Korg and Yamaha rack modules. I just found out that the 8-track digital recorder in my GNX does not send/receive MTC/MMC. This is a problem as I would want to sync it with the sequencer of whichever keyboard I get. The other option there would be to send all mixed synth audio to one stereo out and the use tracks 3-8 for guitars. This would suck as I wouldn't be able to adjust drums, piano, etc., individually in the final mix.

Since the MM6 is better for "ready to play" instantly than the MO6/8 or Motif, maybe I should get that for sounds and to use as a controller for my Roland, and pick up a Korg rackmount to control with it as well. Like I said before, if I went back to PC-based sequencing/recording it would eliminate the need for so many features all-in-one keyboard!

Before you purchase the MM6 with the intent of MIDI usage I strongly suggest you go ask questions at the Motifator site about what you're wanting to do in terms of Midi with the MM6. There have been TONS upon TONS of complaints about the midi limitations on the MM6. You may want to speak with the other MM6 owners there before you purchase the unit. It may or may not function for what you need.

I can tell you that IMO the Juno-G sounds much better in person and much better through a decent set of speakers too. When I first played a Juno-G it sounded like crap because it was running through a crappy mono speaker system. My second run with it was on better speakers.., my third run was with good headphones and it was like silk

Don't be turned off by SRX boards being an extra purchase. The Juno-G accepting SRX cards by no means translates to the onboard preset patches being poor! The purpose of the SRX boards allows Roland users to tailer their sound sets in many ways to suit their needs. Roland gives you great preset patches.., but offers the SRX library to customize your keyboard. If you're like me and into orchestral and film score music.., well Roland gives you good onboard patches for that, but offers SRX boards that cater to my lust for orchestral and film score composition Keep in mind that the Juno-G's sound set is to appeal to a WIDE range of music styles. The patch set is designed to appeal to a large group of people. One great thing about the SRX libray is that they really are pretty reasonably priced and when you add one of those puppies it feels like you just got a new keyboard (but for much less).

The MO's do sound really good too. I used to own the MO8. It's as close to the Motif ES as you're going to get. The MM6 will get you no where near the sound quality you get on the ES or even the MO line (especially in the synth and sequencing area). Some people find the OS a bit difficult.., but that varies from one person to the next.