That's good Ian.., but you were complaining about things it's not designed for and comparing it to digitals that WERE designed and marketed for what YOU'RE wanting.

Ian there are MILLIONS of people out there who don't give a rats left testicle about ANY other sound on a digital than the piano. Many people buy digitals just FOR the piano alone. This unit is going to really fill that market need. There are people that simply are PIANO players and nothing more, but don't want a HUGE acoustic piano that requires costly upkeep, but want and are willing to spend the money for the MOST realistic digital emulation they can get (that won't take up the space of a baby grand). This V-Piano is IT. Try to look at it from the eyes of the person who just plays piano. Even at $6,000 it's still LESS than a good quality baby grand and soundwise is well..., probably the closest hardware emulation on the planet at the moment. Plus it'll allow the PIANO PLAYER to do things not possible with a real acoustic piano. Could you imagine how much it would cost to get an acoustic tailored to your specific needs SOUND WISE from a piano maker??? This V-Piano is going to make A LOT of piano players very happy. Me it's not making happing because I can't afford the thing

You and I share something in common. We're both PIANO players. I like doing all kinds of things on my synths and workstations, but above all that my love is the PIANO. My entire studio is getting a remake and my master controller will be the best fully weighted 88 key controller I can afford. I spend countless hours just playing piano on my keyboards and nothing else. That's what I started with and continued to play throughout the years regardless of what and how many synths I owned at the time.

Yes..., this will up the game and the others will now work hard to improve. Yamaha surely will tackle this one. They got some work to do (I'm sure they can get it). Roland just got their first..., and this is one of those cases where Yamaha might have to take a lesson or two from Roland. The success of one clearly can make the other better as they try to compete. I'm confident Yamaha in time will do their version of this (probably will sell for more though..., gotta be honest on that one). Yamaha's still relying on velocity switching and the number of LAYERS in those samples to be switched (Motif XS's piano a great example) They heavily marketed the number of layers in that piano and the amount of velocity switching used to make all those layers work.

Well, my friend, MOST people who buy digital pianos don't give a vole's colon that they can edit the piano sound or change the string's material...because most are first going to try it out, and IF they like the piano sound, they will buy it.

Most will buy a digital to play...not to tweak.

The V-Piano is a niche product...plain and simple.

In time, the technology will drift down to the medium to low priced pianos...mind you, that won't happen overnight, and then it will be presented in a less elaborate form.

Then the people looking for a digital piano for little Jane or Johnny, the schools, and no doubt the average working musician will be able to benefit from the V-Piano's groundbreaking technology.

In the meantime, Korg and Yamaha will come up with their own versions, IF the V-Piano's technology and approach to digital pianos is successful.

Competition...always improves the breed.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 02-06-2009).]

Again Ian.., another assumption man. There are tons of piano players who buy FULL 88 key workstations just to tweek the pianos (acoustic and electric) and see all the other bells and whistles as just an added bonus. I know many people who are piano players who own the top end 88 key workstations who buy these things simply because of the ability to tweek those pianos and the key action. Plus with these top end workstations they're getting good piano sounds, and still paying LESS than they would for a good quality acoustic. So yes there are many who won't tweek them, but there are just as many that will and want the ability to do that. This V-Piano is going to make many piano players happy because they'll be able to fine tune this thing to the way THEY want it without having to spend their life savings to custom order an acoustic. This piano may cost $6,000 but it sure as hell will save a lot of people some money in the long run.

Also Ian I have never met a piano player that didn't say there wasn't something they'd like to SOUND better on the acoustic piano they own. I've played my share of pianos that sounded great, but thought if only the bottom end wasn't so muddy and so on. This V-Piano will allow piano players to take those things they wish they could get on a custom tailored acoustic but couldn't afford and make it happen. Ian.., I'm sure you've sat in front of enough pianos in your lifetime that were good, but only wished you could do a little something different, but couldn't. The V-Piano is going to let people customize their piano sounds in ways we've never seen before. This is one of those times I wish that I could be a Roland demo rep for a few months! I'd snag one of those V-Pianos for payment (screw the money.., give me that V-Piano)

I'm also one who always bitches about price, but look at what all this piano allows you to do for LESS than the cost of a good baby grand acoustic. Take into consideration what the production cost must be for this thing.., and I can only imagine what the dealer cost will be too!!!!!!! Still.., for the prices I've seen listed here..., and taking into consideration what all you can do with this thing, even at that price you're still saving some money IMO.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-06-2009).]

its over indulgence from my point of view. Listen to the roland RD700GX or Rolands other upright or digital pianos.If you cant find a great piano there then you wont find one in the Vpiano ! They have excellent piano sounds , key feel etc plus excellent additional sounds .Editing and modifying the tonality is every bit as intuitive as the V piano. The editing functions on the Vpiano look impressive simply because of the new application of physical modelling but all that means is that you can tweak a piano so it no longer sounds like a piano !!! The only reason peol buy specific stage piano instruments is because it sounds like the real thing, not some weird piano that has never been invented yet.....This is just great marketing of an old technology used in new way (physical modelling ). But i am sure someone will buy it. But i agree with Ian , this has to be a very niche market.

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-06-2009).]

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-06-2009).]

Yeah, but those other Roland's are still using Velocity Switching man.., and yes those too sound very good. I don't however think those models give you the level of customizing that the V-Piano offers though. This new unit is all about the acoustic piano..., they focused on it and gave you more tools.., and even if they reached back to older technology..., what's wrong with taking something older and making it better???? What do you think Super Articulated Voices are? It's velocity switching tweeked out on crack. Old technology being used in a new way. I'm sure Ian would agree on that one as those SA voices sound damn nice. They improved upon older technology and are selling a crap load of Tyros and S900's because of it.

The biggest unmentioned issue with this "Piano'

No one who is listening will notice the minutiae. No one will care whether its a V this or RD or CP. All they will hear is......."Piano" Period. The technology like in the hifi world has gone well beyond the biology of the Avg Joes ears.

Joe doesn't "listen" to music. He "hears"
it.

The race for the best sounding digital piano was over years ago for all but the most "discerning" ears or those who claim to be able to hear a gnat fart in the key of Eb while playing in C.

This is getting to be like Engadget's making fools of Audio experts with a blind test between Monster cable and coat hangers.http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/

People by spec sheets.
"if you've dropped enough cash, you can probably hear anything you want"

I would bet there are "piano players" who in a blind test would embarrassingly surprise their own bias' If that piano was a Yamaha DIKI would find fault with it just hearing it and knowing nothing else.....IF the Avant Yamaha was a Roland IAN would find the same.

Its fun to read the circular and consistent arguments though.

Now if you are comparing the CP-70 to the Rhodes, or Wurlitzer 200 ALL mega successful pianos used for their INDIVIDUAL and DIFFERENT piano sound. What was Roland's "Piano" brand then.....the D-50?

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-06-2009).]

You make excellent points, Frog.

If I was listening to a recording of a piano player, on a digital, I would be hard pressed to tell you what kind it was.

I'd be more likely to be able to tell the difference between an acoustic and a digital, but even then, it would be tough, depending on the quality of the digital and the condition (tuning, voicing) of the acoustic.

Put these instruments in a band setting or even played along with an MP3 or SMF, and things would get even murkier.

Then mix in the various player techniques...

I do know when I "like" a piano sound.,,,what it's from matters not.

I like the sound of the default V-Piano, but to tell it apart from an RD, or a CP, or a Korg especially in a recording...it'd be tough.

Ian

Spot on King Frog ! I applaud any company that can take old or new tools be it physical modelling, sampling or any combination and push forward the boundaries of technology in terms of music but just because something can be done in a different way to get the same or very similar results doesnt mean that it should be used that way.

In the case of the T2 and 3 Squeak the old technology was there before , yes i grant you, but never had it been put together in such an intuitive and expressive way in any hardware keyboard to produce such authentic sounds. The VPiano uses old technology to produce great piano sounds. But great piano sounds already exist in the bucket load on hardware electric/stage pianos. Velocity switching is just a technique to fool the ear and it does so extremely well. In normal piano play no one is going to hear velocity switching or looped samples. Physical modelling is just another technique to fool the ear and it does so very well too. But you will have to pay 3X the amount to use PM for minute audible differences. I listened to the Vpiano demo closely and i listened to the RD stage pianos closely. Did the Vpiano stand out significantly if at all.....only if you believe that the Emperor has new clothes on..to my ears. remember that story .....

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-06-2009).]

Yes..., you can hear velocity switching and looped samples in sub par piano patches and even in piano patches that are supposed to be top knotch. Just slowly increase your playing strength and hold that sustain pedal down.., you can hear it on some

The short lived Alesis Fusion I had..., well let me tell you there was nothing holy about it's proclaimed "holy grail piano patch". Bad velocity switching and even uneven velocity between the black and white keys!

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-06-2009).]

The Yamaha CP70 came out in 1976...Roland's electronic pianos at the time were MP-600 Electric Piano and the MP-700 Combo Piano.

The RD-300/200 series did not come out until 1987...ten years later.

Ian