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#255446 - 02/01/09 02:36 PM How Audya handles live guitar track
mrdave Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Rimini, Italy
So, here's the answer:

Along with all the instruments wave data, there are recorded hundreds of guitar riffs and chords in all tonalities, but... only Maj and Min chords are present, with some exceptions.
So, for the most part of guitar loops you got only Maj and Min versions. How do they create other chords? Simply... for chords that have note added (lik 6, 7, 9...) they simply add a MIDI note in the correct position along with the chord. For example if you play a C7, you get the CMaj guitar along with a midi guitar that plays the A# note. If you play CMin7, the same... you get the Min chord + the MIDI A# note.
But for other chords that don't have additions, like C4, Cdim, CAug for example, all the loop is played by MIDI and you can clearly hear the live guitar absence in some styles where the live guitar is predominant.
as I told before, I found a few exceptions (bossa and samba riffs) where playing a 7th chord brings up a different sample instead of adding the midi note.
Other samples, notably the rock ones have only one version played regardless of Maj or Min chords.

[This message has been edited by mrdave (edited 02-01-2009).]

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#255447 - 02/01/09 03:07 PM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
So in other words, if you're doing standard pop or rock or country, don't use those crazy chords that only jazzers use, and you'll be fine. I can't think of the last Nickel Back song I've heard with a dim or aug chord. But to not have suspended chords is really not good. The entire method seems to be rather less than stellar in my mind; a neat idea, but this is the kind of thing that would require several gigs of harddrive space to get right. I mean, even a seventh chord isn't going to sound right, because the voicing will be all wrong; the guitar will suddenly have 7 strings. Yeah, how many people are actually gonna notice that, but still.

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#255448 - 02/01/09 04:33 PM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
mrdave Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Rimini, Italy
Yes... I like sus4 chords and hearing guitar suddenly disappear isn't really nice...(as I said on styles where the live guitar is predominant, like the unplugged ones, playing a sus4 chord give a noticeable difference....
Regarding space, the guitar parts take a little more of 128MB of wavetable data.

[This message has been edited by mrdave (edited 02-01-2009).]

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#255449 - 02/01/09 09:14 PM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi MRDave,
interesting the way they've done it.

Do the drums still work the same way as on the SD1+ ie 1 track forof Live Drums( which I think may be based on sliced audio loops???)
& midi drums on the other drum track to give variety.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mrdave:
[B]



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#255450 - 02/01/09 10:44 PM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Damn...! I was SO hoping to be proved a complete idiot (or at least, several others here were! )

Seriously, even though the system works kind of how I expected, I AM disappointed that they couldn't even record a simple open fifth pattern, and a diminished, which would allow sus4, open9, etc. without a complete drop out of the audio.

I guess now, the audio loop depends very much on how well the MIDI guitar samples are matched to the audio ones. I could still work, don't get me wrong. But it's a lot harder to not hear those dropouts, I suppose... At least it explains those simplistic guitar only demos. That IS all that there is

But I honestly am not happy. I really was hoping that this WAS more complex than this, and worked the way we all HOPED it would work (with audio loops at least for MOST of the main chord types). I would be MUCH happier were I proved completely wrong about the whole thing.

Damn...
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#255451 - 02/02/09 12:20 AM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
Perfect for me, never managed to put more than 3 of my left hand fingers on the keyboard in time to produce a 7th. By the time the brain has calculated what has to be done, what finger goes where, the next chord has come up...!!!!!!!!

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#255452 - 02/02/09 06:53 AM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Diki,

It is starting to look like you are correct. I never thought you were an idiot, and if I left that impression I am sorry. I wanted you to be wrong because it would have been a quantum leap in arranger technology for all of us. It wasn't personal on my part. I just felt you should have waited until the Audya was released in America before people started ripping it. I would feel that way about any company's product. As I have stated in other posts I still feel you are probably the most technically knowledgable person on the forum. If what mrdave says is true, the next best thing has eluded us. Too bad for us.

Tom
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Tom

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#255453 - 02/02/09 12:31 PM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
so i guess this is the reason for the hush-hush on this topic from Ketron,

ye it does play all chords, we know that, but "how" is what Diki and I and many others wanted to know...

coming out and saying or admitting the following would not be cool:

well if you play a C maj chord it plays a beautiful full audio guitar loop, and then if you wanna get "fancy" and play a C dim, well you get all Midi, No audio"

i wish i only knew how to play, Major and minor chords :-(

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#255454 - 02/02/09 12:37 PM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
No problem, Tom... it's just that this forum is global, and I tend to think that way. Once a product is released ANYWHERE, I feel it is on us as 'good consumers' to make sure the hype matches the reality.

Waiting until it eventually gets to the US shores (however long THAT might take) is doing our European and elsewhere brothers a disservice...

And I'm sorry, but I still don't see well informed skepticism as a 'rip'. When an arranger company claims to have solved a problem that so far, no software VSTi (or the like) company has managed to successfully pull off (low latency live interactive guitar parts from audio loops - don't get me wrong, they are good, but IMO still not good enough for live), and I have experience using some of these, I feel questioning and inquiring about the feature to be important. It doesn't mean I don't WANT the feature to work. Just that, when no-one else has succeeded, belief comes a little harder.

Like I said, I honestly DO wish that I had been completely wrong...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255455 - 02/02/09 12:44 PM Re: How Audya handles live guitar track
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Diki,

maybe it's not too late for Ketron to get those musicians back into the studio to finish up recording those "complex" chords ;-)

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