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#255335 - 02/01/09 01:41 PM Re: Audya at home
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4334
Loc: Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
If Audya proves itself above the rest it will sell on its merits no problem.....but if not....


Mmmmm, that's what we all waiting for, to see, hear and find out about. So far I'm not sure if
it's worth the big gap in price that is forecasted here. Only time will tell.
If not, I guess there will be some quite lower priced 2nd hand items to find real soon.... as
well as that Ketron probably have to start think about what to do next.

Quote:
Originally posted by twiceduo:
Anyone of you, do you think the audya will be at the shop in next week, here in Denmark, Norway and Sweden.


Well, I made a joke about April 1st in a tread, but did not mention any year.
Anyway, at a Norwegian musicstore webshop they say during February. If so, probably most of the
Scandinavian market will have it same time, depending of how many items there is produced ready
to ship around the world.

GJ
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GJ
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#255336 - 02/01/09 01:58 PM Re: Audya at home
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
So, why don't you tell us how the guitar system works?

Also,with all the pcm data on hd, copying them would be a breeze,

on the other hand, you may be able to substitute some sounds with yours.

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#255337 - 02/01/09 10:08 PM Re: Audya at home
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
I am not that really concerned about HOW the guitar feature works from a programming standpoint, but I would LOVE to simply hear it put through some more complex steps than those shown on the Ketron site.

Any chance of a quick demo?

One other thing piques my curiosity. You state that there is no ROM sounds, they all reside on HD? In which case, how long does it take to boot up? I guess if you are correct, it has to load them in...

Finally (for now, anyway ), if you have an Akai sample disk or two, can you measure how long it takes to load up say 32MB of sample data..? Transfer to HD, then load, I suppose, to give a real world figure (CDROM drives are SO slow!)

Actually, if your report that the ROM loads from HD, this actually gives me some hope that samples may be loaded up a LOT faster than most other arrangers (even if the RAM limit is puny by modern standards). If there is indeed several hundred MB of ROM sounds, at T3 or Korg speeds that would still take several minutes to load (20+). Surely boot up is quicker than THAT, so it makes sense that the data pipe to the RAM could be fairly zippy...

Thanks for your info.

More, more, more! (Thank you, Andrea True!)
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255338 - 02/03/09 06:51 PM Re: Audya at home
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Quote:
There isn't a ROM for sounds, all PCM data is on the hard disk, so Ketron can issue updates on sounds also.


Sorry bro but thats wrong, Audya works on the known way as any other
ROMPLER does, what you heard from HD is the SuperSolos and they, ONLY
they come from HD. Audya has its own ROM and i even know its size.
And remember, what you have is not even 40% of the final Release
of the Audya, its nowhere near the unit that people will buy, the one you
tried is probably same as this one if not less.



[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-04-2009).]
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#255339 - 02/03/09 08:03 PM Re: Audya at home
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
ok,

my question is:

how far along is AUDYA?
are all styles created?
are we still recording? complex chords maybe?
all sounds finalized?
Nedim, says 40%

i thought this thing was shipping now in Europe, and end of Feb. in US

and the AUDYA in Portugal? how complete is that one? 40%

can we PLEASE get a SIMPLE answer?
AJ? Ketron?

What is the progress and status of this?

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#255340 - 02/03/09 09:05 PM Re: Audya at home
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Quote:
Well... the device gets recognized as a full speed device (1.1), so I guess it isn't 2.0. This isn't really a problem to transfer .mid files or even .mp3, but if you have to put .wavs or big files this could impact you.


So much for being cutting edge in the 21st Century huh? And this is just one more case of an obvious blunder by Ketron. And Ketron has acknowledged as much because they did everything in their power to cover it up by trying to hide the information from becoming known to the public. I figured as much i.e. NO USB 2.0 and I guess I was right.

For future reference, if AJ doesn't answer a specific question regarding one of Ketron's up and coming products I suppose we can all assume that whatever we thought the product might have i.e. USB 2.0, complex chord audio loops recognition, etc., it really won't have it, because of AJ's refusal to answer the question. And again, I don't blame AJ or Theodore in New York aka Ted, because they are simply following orders and were under a gag order from Ancona, Italy to keep their lips shut. Nevertheless, that will be our indicator i.e. "zipped lips" that what we thought an upcoming Ketron product would have - it most assuredly won't I reckon. And the vehicle at our disposal to verify it as such is the utter "silence" we will hear (or rather NOT hear) on the subject from Ketron and company.

What a silly way to run a company in my opinion. Being so secretive and all. What, are they so ashamed of their product that they aren't willing to acknowledge it might have possible shortcomings? As if every other product on the planet happens to be inherently perfect, right? Wrong.

We're adults you know. We can take the good WITH the bad. It's okay. We'll understand (eventually.. ) why it is you only gave the Audya USB 1.1. What we don't understand is: why were you being so secretive about it? Bad news is bad news and I understand you being hesitant about revealing flaws or inconsistencies about your pride and joy - BUT, lo and behold, the truth came out anyway right? Your obstruction of the facts by willfully withholding the truth is ultimately what is causing consumers to go ballistic and negative towards you as a company, and may prove to be your downfall in the end. Hopefully you guys in Ancona, Italy will wake up and realize that, because the lack of transparency with the very public you are trying to persuade to buy your products may cause a rift so wide that you cannot mend it. Which would be a pity really, because we would all like to see Ketron survive and thrive as a well known and respected company, and as a technology innovator of keyboard products for the 21st Century. The choice is yours.

All the best, Mike
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#255341 - 02/03/09 09:29 PM Re: Audya at home
hitman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 325
Loc: VA/ USA
This is going to be another example of how to waste perfectly good R&D dollars. At least they did not spend much on advertising! On the other hand, it might be an example of venture capitalism. We'll see what happens!

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 02-03-2009).]

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 02-03-2009).]

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#255342 - 02/03/09 11:03 PM Re: Audya at home
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
I believe it truly is a step in the right direction (although more on that later)... unfortunately, not a long enough step to appease most players, I fear. I can understand Ketron's desire to expand their whole audio loop concept to include musical loops, but surely SOMEBODY at Ketron spoke up and said that, if the system can't handle all the basic chords (and by basic, I don't mean just major and minor!), it might be better to wait until it COULD..?

Ketron's main mistake, I guess, was getting ahead of themselves, announcing the imminent arrival YEARS before delivery, and announcing it's capabilities (in fact exaggerating them - initially, this this was supposed to do audio loops on several parts at the same time) before they even knew it could do them at all.

Obviously, they have run into the wall some of us talked about. Even if the technical hurdles were overcome, the artistic one of producing the sheer quantity of loops to pull this feat off are formidable. Not to mention that an arranger, as a performing tool, is required to do vastly different musics from all over the world. Supplying audio loops for all those different needs, at an affordable price never seemed likely, and a good supply of what is needed simply is NOT available from third party loop jockeys, who rarely ever are even close to comprehensive in their selection of chord types and tempi...

This is all well and good when you are making music that CAN be shaped and directed by the loops available (hiphop, anyone? ), but arranger players tend to use their arrangers to play songs already composed, whereupon, if a critical chord type is missing, you are boned

Sadly, they WERE onto a very good thing. The use of audio loops for drum parts doesn't need anywhere NEAR the computer power to use in an arranger, not needing transposition or different chord types to function. Perhaps if the Audya had merely expanded on that, with audio loops for each and every style, and a vast and expanding (and easy to produce) selection of styles, and had given up on the guitar stuff until streaming technology was mature enough to at least play all the main chord types, this might have been a more timely product (and in today's economic climate, that would have made it more profitable) that would STILL have blown the competition away.

I guess we will never know...

In the meantime, I hope other manufacturers don't go down this path. I honestly DO think that Korg, Yamaha and to a lesser extent Roland (who have a GREAT Guitar Mode, but it isn't integrated with style mode yet) are on the right path to better guitar emulation without the limitations that loops force on you. Mega Voice technology, especially the new T3 NTT's can sound very realistic, and Korg's Guitar Mode is very sophisticated, needing only perhaps some better guitar sample sets to rival, and maybe surpass Yamaha...

Will it better an audio loop for unrivaled realism? Perhaps not for a while, but it has NONE of the audio loop's shortcomings. You can still easily change an acoustic picking pattern to an electric pattern, or steel string into nylon, by a simple PC#. You can edit the picking pattern or strumming accents a LOT easier than the audio loop. You can edit the amount of distortion on the guitar track by using a clean sample into an amp sim.

Hopefully, now that Audya have shown how difficult it is to pull off this stunt, this will put a halt to 'me too' requests from Y, K & R's users, and go back to encouraging them down the path they have already started. I truly believe it the correct one.

And, I'm sorry, but after using BFD, EZDrummer, Groove Agent and the like for a while, I must confess that even using audio for drum loops is IMO the wrong path. Yes, once again you get the greatest immediate realism with the audio, but again at the cost of ANY customization ability. I have heard stuff coming from EZDrummer, and BFD that was indistinguishable from live drumming, but completely controllable.

Just as RAM and ROM prices hit an all time low, surely it makes sense to leverage existing technologies, and simply up the drum sample sizes to the GB size (OK even a few hundred MB is enough!) with more velocity splits and LH, RH alternation, and achieve the same degree of realism that loops provide (the patterns can still be played by drummers on MIDI kits) with NONE of their shortcomings?

OK, pretty soon, Dom is going to chime in and say yes, you can do all that on the MS. And indeed you can. But kudos to Ketron for at least realizing that the vast majority of the arranger market want those loops, kits, and the like actually in the arranger when they buy it... perhaps one day he will 'get it'.

I will be first in line when he does!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#255343 - 02/04/09 01:39 AM Re: Audya at home
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
OK, pretty soon, Dom is going to chime in and say yes, you can do all that on the MS.

I will be first in line when he does!


Wrong! with qranger we have the same guitar loops chords issue like on Audya.
Diki..how I told before, sometime you are so heavy and boring, BUT musically I have to admit that you are one of the more smart here, to understand this all audio chords issue.

You have also to understand this new audio-midi arranger generation, still NOT all is possible, because we know that Audio data have the limitation, can not be convert in realtime for make the all chords possible.
You have to choose a compromise and find the best way HOW to create a new style.
For sure stll the best way for make working the Guitar/Bass riffs are under Midi, this is the best way for remap the notes to each chords.

Embedded keyboards have the ROM/RAM and DSP engine limitation, where the all sounds must be processing from the embedded DSP/ROM.
In the MS is different, because we can choose another sounds enines, like the GIGA or VST format, BUT still the chords trasformer can be a issue.
MAYBE on MS we can find a better solution IF is installed one ASIO Host like the Real Guitar, or some else.

Qranger is based on Audio-Midi Timeline SEQ, it mean that under Timeline system is not possible make like the T3 NTT/s midi note trasformer. The SEQ will send OUT the all midi notes found on Timeline and we can only process the notes in realtime that come out.
This mean that right now Qrangerr is not able to Invert sequences notes, because i based on Timeline/Time code system.

The only plus on Qranger is the editor, where is possible create how many audio-midi tracks and routing each midi channels tracks to the desidered sounds engines. Qranger have the feature to create Unlimited Midi OUTS and connect what you like.
I can also use one external roland sound canvas or Yamaha XG generator for play the desidered styles session.

How I told before, audio loops are limited for chords switch, is not a audya and MS issue, is the Audio wav that have this limitation.
MAYBE who know in future IF Melodyne can resolve this chords issue in realtime, then this issue is resolved.

right now, only GOD can make miracle...

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#255344 - 02/04/09 02:25 AM Re: Audya at home
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
After today i quit reading about MS, even though i was offered to work on the machine.
As some say, its not important how it works inside and hot is it dont, whats important
is WHAT DO I HEAR COME OUT OF IT!
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

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