I just listened to all three...

I'll try to keep this as constructive as possible, please take it that way

First of all, Donny, did you notice his goal was a professional SONGWRITER, not singer or performing artist? The idea is to sell the songs to OTHER people, hopefully better singers...

But Larry, you might try investing in the Autotune software, which used judiciously, can go a long way to at least mitigating the distraction of off-pitch singing (as long as you don't over-use it!) when others listen with a view to using the song...

I really enjoyed the first two songs, again yes, VERY Beatlesque, but good for all that. A small comment on Scuba Dive... 4:47 is just a LITTLE too long for a pop song, but other than that, I enjoyed this one, Great changes, strong melody, good bridge...

Sweet Purple, again, a good song, nice changes, I might have liked to hear this one just a HAIR faster, give it a little more 'lift', a bit more drive.

But I'm sorry, I couldn't get into Sky beyond the Sky... just a bit bland and relentlessly diatonic for me, nowhere near as interesting as the first two (sorry!).

But if you wanted a REAL critique of these as a pro songwriters output, I'm afraid I would have to say that, firstly, you need to find your OWN voice and style (writing-wise, that is), because the seventies are GONE (sadly ), and although you love the Beatles, having these TOO close to that style really dates them. And that, if you are trying to SELL songs, taking a careful look at where styles are NOW will give you a much better shot at finding a buyer.

This doesn't mean you have to go urban, or dance... plenty of good songwriters making more rock/pop stuff, but sadly to say, you don't hear much nowadays with that Beatlesque complexity of chords. Try listening to some John Mayer, or Ben Johnson, or even some of the women writers like Regina Spektor, or even Feist, to get a taste of where things are NOW...

The difference between being a 'songwriter' and a 'professional songwriter' is that the pro is writing FOR a market, whereas the regular songwriter is just writing what THEY want to write. Sometimes this can work for them, but often not... Unless YOUR own voice is original, and catches on (still talking about writing, again!), it's an uphill battle to get signed. And making stuff that is basically a Beatles/late seventies pastiche is going to limit your commercial potential, IMO...

As 'demos', I thought the arranger based production (plus real playing) was fine for the task of demoing to an A&R guy, or an artist looking for songs. Obviously, it's not a pro production, but it does what it is (I hope) trying to do admirably.

As I said, I really enjoyed the first two, I'm a big Beatles fan myself, but I think if you are trying to get a deal, trying to get covered, looking to make money, trying to be a bit more contemporary might help a lot.

I hope you take this constructively, it's in NO way a 'slam'. I would love to hear more of your output any day! Just try to not be TOO much like anything else that old!

Diki:

Great critique! You're the second person to love Scuba Dive that said it is a tad too long. I found a way to shave 9 seconds off of the song by taking the tag off of the first chorus.

I'll look into how speeding up the Sweet Purple Dream sounds.

I was toying with the third song today to make it more captivating until it gets to the climax. I reuploaded it on Myspace.

I will be looking into some more contemporary arrangements for some of my songs. The first two I wrote about 15 years ago, and they've been on my mind a lot, so I did them first.

I will look into Melodyne as well. I think I'm pretty on key, but it's better to strive for perfection, especially when you're pitching your songs to the pros.

And thanks Diki for clarifying to DNJ that these are songwriter demos. I want to get the song across more than my musicianship, but I don't want my musicianship to detract.

Beakybird

[This message has been edited by Beakybird (edited 01-30-2009).]

Sorry, but 9 seconds off of 4:47 isn't really significant... as a demo, it needs to be closer to 3:45. But you've also got to remember that most A&R guys won't listen to much past the first chorus. It either grabs them quickly, or it's 'Next!'...

Get the good stuff in quickly...

Nice orchestration and arranging
Nice harmony’s
Nice vocal background
Nice chord changes
Nice keyboard fill-in’s
Nice guitar licks
Nice, appropriate dance style’s that compliment the music
Nice creativity
Nice lyrics

[This message has been edited by Lucky2Bhere (edited 01-31-2009).]

If you say you want to be a songwriter that implies you want to write for someone else.

If that's the case you have to target a singer, a style, a group and write for them.
And stick to the craft. you have to write on cue for anyone anytime on any subject. Professional Songwriters are gifted indeed.
They don't simply write a song they craft a song.


If you write like I do and just enjoy the process as a pastime, don't change a thing. Just enjoy and treat each song like a blank canvas, The words are the medium, and the music the paint and colors.

If you want to continue where the fab four left off you are off to a great start. The influence is solid. You are the reincarnation of Sir George Martin.

Who is it you want to market your songs to?
You need a target market and artist to have a chance at selling your music. Get a good library together and Join TAXI. They are fantastic for placing music in all kinds of arenas and offer some great criticism from major songwriters with the awards and accolades. You will have to Invest a few dollars in your quest and TAXI is the only place I know of that will get good music to those who are looking for it.

Wait a second, Kingfrog!

You have only heard three songs of mine. And I have a library that I want to put out there. Thank you for the Taxi suggestion!!

While Sweet Purple Dream is super-Beatlesque (It is still a fun and catchy tune), Scuba Dive has a lot of non-Beatle influences. I picked up the chords of the verse while living in Spain and listening to flamenco. The chords to the chorus have some similarity to "All By Myself." The vocal technique has Elvis Costello influence. There is Elton John influence as well.

The third song is not like the Beatles at all. It is a romantic allegory for merging with God, and has a lot of Andrew Lloyd Weber influence.

You haven't heard many of my other songs that have other influences. I will post them soon. And I will announce it on the forum if I am using my arranger as a songwriting tool.

Beakybird

[This message has been edited by Beakybird (edited 01-31-2009).]

You are right. I jumped to the most obvious conclusion and went back to take a second listen. I think you have such a distinctive voice that lends itself to early British Pop.

Perhaps the influences are wider then the Fab Four.However I really believe you have to write for a specific artist or at least genre. There are few "standard" singers any more and the Micheal Bubles of the world are recording real standards.

People need to be guided and like to (no NEED to)categorize. If it were me I would get a list of Artists who cover outside material, listen to them, their choices, their style and write as close as possible in that genre. Unfortunately Country is the only arena that routinely uses traditional songwriters, BUT the good news is country is no longer "country" There is a pop element and a crossover element which gives you more latitude.

And Beaky, when you ask for people's impressions and opinions, you can't turn round and tell them they are wrong

It IS their impression, not yours... If it doesn't match what YOU think about the piece, that's valuable information. It is all too easy to assume that whatever YOU think about a piece of music you have written will be what others think. But the public (or other musicians!) have a nasty habit of making their OWN minds up

It's not your job to 'correct' their impression... it's your job to realize that what they are hearing is what they are hearing. Learning to accept criticism (and trust me, compared to the 'pro' songwriter world, you have had a VERY gentle time here! ) and to recognize it's value in giving you a less subjective impression of a song is probably the MOST important skill as a pro songwriter you can have.

No, Diki, I am learning from what I am hearing.

I am hearing pretty consistently that they are solid songs. Some people like you say that they are very good (at least you said that two of three are), and some are saying outstanding.

I am hearing pretty consistently that they are dated, and it might be difficult for me to place these songs.

I have heard from two people who like Scuba Dive that it is too long to be a hit pop song.

I have heard from two people that my voice is occasionally out of tune. I am going to be purchasing Melodyne to repair this. I am going to buy the version that helps you produce harmonies, because I'm not enthralled with the TC Helicon unit.

I am going to be conscious about using contemporary arrangements for my tunes.

Diki, I can't thank you enough for your critique. I took some of it with a little grain of salt, but I regard you as being very talented, extremely smart, and hypercritical. So it actually made my day that you liked two of my songs, but it occurred to me that I would be a dodo if I ignored the negative aspects of your critique.

Beakybird

And by the way, thanks to Lucky and Kingfrog for listening as well.

I know that this thread is only tenuously related to the forum because I used my arranger as a songwriting tool.

Thanks for listening.

Beakybird