Here's a new thread for anyone who has something positive or negative to say about the Audya chord recognition.


Go...

Here's a new one...

Those of you who played the Audya a Shreveport, how forgiving was it to playing chords fractionally late?

Most of our arrangers that use MIDI, you play a chord fractionally late, it still plays the previous chord on the '1', then all the notes bend smoothly, instantly, and without retriggering onto the correct notes for the chord you just played. Most times, this can be almost undetectable. But the mechanism to bend notes doesn't exist for loops.

Did anyone notice any chord 'glitches'?

Here's another...

Anyone try doing a maj - sus4 - maj - sus4 type chord progression? How well did it handle cross-fading those chords in realtime?

We didn't get to play the Audya, only listen to AJ. I did try the keys briefly for feel, but didn't play any styles. Either he didn't hit any chords at the wrong time, or it handled them fine, because I didn't hear any glitches.
DonM

How are any of us to know if no one in the states has one but AJ. Dom didn't hear anything that would trigger a "hey, what 's up with the Auyda". I guess were going to have to wait and see until the Audya arrives here in the states and we demo them. I am going to get my hands on one as so as get to usa, then I'll let you know.

If I wait to play one to find out, I am NEVER going to know. No dealer in my entire area... (I am not driving 18 hours to find out!)

That's why I am committing the apparently unforgivable sin of actually ASKING the manufacturer's reps and demonstrators about these questions. You know, while they are here (unlike SOME manufacturer's reps, anyway! )...

If they want to come here and extol the product, they can answer a few relevant questions, too, can't they? I guess it's the price you pay making yourself available to the public. They might want to ask some tougher questions that you MIGHT not want to answer... (certainly doesn't SEEM like they want to answer it, anyway!)

At the moment, there are no user impressions available, so I'm simply asking the only people who HAVE played it or know of it's technical specs...

Is that OK?

Dikki,
Until more Audyas arrive in the U.S., there is only ONE person who has one--A.J. He is extremely busy right now, but I know he will get around to answering the questions as time allows.
We've been patient (sort of) for about two years now, a few more days won't kill us.
They are making plans to show the Audya in as many regions as possible. We were the first because we happened to get lucky on the timing and they jumped through hoops and paid premium air fare to get it here.
I appreciate it and will wait until I can get my hands on one. Hope it's soon. Ted is thinking February, and that's not far off.
DonM

Sorry, but this is a technical question. I don't expect AJ to sit down at the bloody thing and TRY out all the chords!

As the manufacturer, he should KNOW what chords were recorded. They should be in the manual, or some addendum somewhere, or at least available to Ketron personnel, you know, in case someone actually ASKS this question (what? you thought no-one would care? )...

Why has this essential spec got to be ferreted out by exhaustive playing? It is (at Ketron, at least) a well known FACT...

One they seem reluctant to divulge, though...

You know, the USB 1 or 2 issue was quickly answered by factory reps. Why is this, to my mind FAR more important issue (musically, and that's all I really care about!) taking so long to get an answer for?

The most salient thing AJ has said, for me anyway, (and it MIGHT just be the answer as well to Dikis questions) is this line....


"meaning when you play (e.g an A chord), all extentions/variations of the A chord - (dim, 9th, Maj, Min, Min7th, AUG ... etc) are recognized [AJ's term for PLAY] by the AUDIO and MIDI parts of AUDYA. Because we streem the Audio directly from the HD, memory wasn't an issue here."

You note he says "recognised by the audio AND midi parts"

I think we may be able to deduce that the higher embellishments, or "tension" notes if you like, are more than likely covered by midi data, with the basic chord structure covered by the audio loop.

This makes sense to me as it allows great freedom/variation in chord play, whilst keeping disk streaming to a minimum, as well as sample data.

Now let me say this is NOT the same as having the all chord types recorded as audio loops, and could be construed as a bit of a "fudge" by Ketron, and if it WERE the case I would be a bit disappointed, BUT I can see how that would work, and it may just be the first step along the road to TOTAL audio style play from Ketron.

After all this is a highly complex task they are undertaking and I beleive it has much more work before it is complete. However Ketron DID have to get something released and selling.

Of course I could be wrong, but it does seem plausible.

Dennis

I've got a feeling you are right, Dennis. But getting Ketron to admit it seems like pulling teeth.

Anyone who has used a product like Virtual Guitarist from Steinberg is already aware of some of the issues trying to do this on a realtime basis. However, this may not be a large percentage of arranger players, hence the wild hype about this feature.

Knowledge of these issues won't stop the Audya from being groundbreaking, nor stop it from sounding great. But it MIGHT help to deflate some wildly optimistic expectations before they ultimately disappoint.

Ain't that the truth!!

D

I agree with this as well, Slayer 2 presents similar (although not as intense as it is much smaller than virtual guitarist) issues when trying to play live from a keyboard.

I can only GUESS at the difficulties faced by Ketron.

They really do need to provide this information.

I try to avoid comparing companies, but if one takes a look at Roland Yamaha Korg etc, they usually have a FULL manual including ALL data sheets available at the time of release, and in some case even BEFORE release.

As there ar so few demo models, the sensible alternative I think it to at least provide full written data to go along with on-line demos. And not some hastily put together "Quick Start Guide". I think pretty much anyone on this forum would figure out within about 30 minutes how to operate it.

It's the in-depth data that is needed to assit in a purchase of an Audya. ESPECIALLY when it is this expensive.

Dennis

And especially as, if you live in a part of the world (the vast majority of it, actually!) where you are unlikely to ever get to see or play one before you need to make a purchasing decision...

My best luck on getting information from a MFG is going to the country's distributor...That's Ted...

Ask Ted not AJ directly the audio/chord regognition/play question and tell him 'not going to but one until we get a detailed answer'

Always go to where the money is...If Audya does not sell in the US...Ted is the one that will not be a happy camper.

Lee

I'm not asking anyone specific...

Just the first person that KNOWS (and the rest can chime out, as insulted as they personally feel about someone having the temerity to actually want to KNOW something about the Audya..!)

Sometimes, dealers and reps do more damage than good trying to 'spin doctor' information they don't even have, let alone know whether it is to a product's advantage or disadvantage... Wouldn't this have been cool if all these nervous Nellie's had simply gone 'We don't know... we'll try and find out for you" rather than the tap-dancing that some of them (who should know better) have done...

It's Ted's responsibility as the Distributor for USA.
Ted can simply go to Ketron Italy and get them to provide the detailed tech. answer to this question. Were not asking for trade secrets here.

IMHO, you WILL get better results by going directly to a person. After all Ted and his folks need to know the answer too.

If Ketron will not provide the answer to Ted..don't buy one. Simple as that.

These Mfg need to get their support up a level to us. We need to bend their arm ntil they do. Our only power is $$$. If they want us to spend...they needto anti up.

Lee

Lee..Diki

Interestingly enough that I am a distributor for the music business for about 15 years (selling karaoke equipment).

I am not a musician at all (kinda tone deaf),So even though I see and hear many questions on the items I sell I would not begin to know the answers.

Though if I get an email (tedcmc@aol.com) with a direct question I send it on to Italy and await an answer, which I must say they usually respond fairly quickly, So the best way to deal with issues like the chord question would be to send it to my email as an direct question and I will try to get an answer

Ted

I tried some chords muting bass and drums, keeping only chord patterns, and it seems many of them are handled by audio loops (you get different patterns depending on the type and also the tonality of the chord you play, this gives a really "live" feel on the music.
But... I had the impression that playing strange chords the audio parts are completely muted and only the midi parts sounds. When I'll have the audya at home (perhaps next weekend), I'll do extensive testing on this.

However playing normally this arranger is impressive, with a good speaker system you think you have a live band playing around you.... As I told before... right hand voices could be much better however... The best could be playing T3 voices with right hand along with Audya arranger parts... but... hey... I ain't going to spend 6500 euros for that!!!!!!

Regarding arranger parts editing or style creating.... I found no way to enter a pattern edit screen, it seems the only editing functions are those provided by the Arranger View, where you can change only sounds or loops for the styles. Since the majority of the styles are using live drum loops, the midi drum part is not programmed on them, so if you assign a midi drumkit to them you do not hear any drum sounding...
On the G70 I like to play with make up tools to modify the style and you can get a totally different sounding style just changing the drumkit for example....

Ted,
Interesting, I'm not trying to be a smart ass...but have you been following anything on the Ketron here? THE chord recog. question?

You know the big question we all have...so go to Ketron and get our answer,,,Please.

It's really a simple question and we would like a detailed answer.

Maybe it's just me...but if I was doing a product launch (and I have many times, been involved with product launches) I would be all over this kind of thing. Don't you guys want to sell these things?
Thanks,
Lee

Thanks, mrdave... finally, someone who actually TRIED!

I look forward to a more detailed description of what's going on.

And leeboy... Ted seems to have forgotten that KetronAJ is posting here, knows my question, and doesn't need an email sent to Ketron to give an answer. Mind you, his only answer is 'I won't tell you. It's a secret' I can't see how an email to Ketron would get anything different... He's their main demo-er and works VERY closely with the developers.

But AJ might have thought about what we will think when USERS finally get these in their hands and start reporting things like mrdave has. It's not like we can't easily figure this stuff out for ourselves, given one in our hands, in which case, this entire evasiveness looks far more like knee-jerk damage control than any sincere desire to preserve trade secrets. Which it WOULDN'T have if he had simply answered honestly in the first place...

Now we have to ask the question... is mrdave THAT much smarter than AJ, or has AJ deliberately chosen to withhold this information because he MIGHT not get as many pre-orders if the details of this technical sleight of hand were made public? Personally, I think that AJ miscalculated. I think if the thing still sounds great, most won't care. And the few that DO care will be even more resistant after getting this runaround...

I don't CARE how the thing achieves what it does, as long as it does what it is billed to do. But I HATE being led around by my nose by a salesman, when a simple honest answer would suffice.

mrdave..i may be able to help you with pattern edit .. i dont have a audya in front of me, but i do have a picture and can probably help navigate ...

dan.oneil@yahoo.com


[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 01-25-2009).]

I've read this dumb-assed thread about five times, and each time I read it I get more, and more pissed. Diki isn't going to buy the damed keyboard--PERIOD! And, neither will most forum members, especially if it sells for more than the T3.

Whether it plays those weird assed chords or not is irrelevent, especially when no one in the audience can hear those subtle differences. I can say with utmost authority that if I played them it was purely by mistake.

Now, this is going to really piss off Diki, and maybe a couple others, but at this point I really don't give a rat's ass. I'm really tired of a few people impugning someone's integrity and technical ability just to try to get a rise from other forum members. Technically speaking, AJ probably knows more about the inner-workings, operating systems and basic electronics of keyboards than all the other members of this forum combined--INCLUDING ME. I can almost guarantee you that he forgot more about basic and digital electronics than nearly everyone on this forum. He answered the question--PERIOD! Oh, it may not be to the satisfaction of some forum members, but he answered it to the best of his ability.

Nigel, if you want to ban my bony ass for this post, feel free. Maybe it's just enduring the cold weather at my age that has really got my dander up. I don't know for sure. One thing is certain, though, there are a lot of senior members of this forum that obviously grown tired of threads that have turned into pissing contests--this one being a prime example. If you are going to moderate the forum, then damn it MODERATE THE FORUM. Allowing denigrating posts such as some of the above makes absolute no sense at all. They serve absolutely no useful purpose, piss off a lot of really good people, and in the end the big losers are forum members that came hear to learn and contribute.

NUFF SAID!

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 01-25-2009).]

Who is Simon?...

My mistake Fran. A quick edit corrected it. Damned it's cold.

Gary

I was going to say perhaps Gary's an American Idol fan

He is ...

Some say his watch goes up to 14, and that he thinks the credit crunch is a new type of breakfast cereal. All we know is… he’s called "travlin'easy".

Amen, Gary........ !!!!

Hats off to you!

I only started the thread so that diki or anyone else could complain or ask more and more questions without taking over more threads with chord recognition.

I've had the same feelings, but I just didn't have the balls to say what you just said, but Thank You..

Hi MrDave,
on the sd1+ , there's a "pattern edit" button,assuming the Audya would have one too ??
Here you can change sounds etc, record new style tracks, copy tracks from one style to another. One thing lacking for me, is there is no event note list editor. Makes it hard to edit notes in tracks.
Have been trying to find out if the Audya has this type of editing.

Husband's in for a tough time if it does. haahaa.

GAry,
You make some good points for sure...
But sometimes it does get old not being able to get a simple technical question answered by the MFG.

POsts on here just to get a rise or piss someone else off is rediculous.

If you guys want to really see how good a forum can be to help lots of folks out...run on over to our Korg PA site

It's anmazing what's happening..people doing lots of styles and importing and buliding their own DNC sounds etc. People stepping outside the box and learning how to do some really cool things.

The features on that baby are unbelievable!
I'm currently working on my own version of a big Bari sax with lots of low end in it. It's fun!

If you don't care...that's OK too.

Lee

Look, the only way this gets turned into a pissing contest is by knee jerk members jumping in and going 'how DARE you ask these kinds of questions? What gives you the right to doubt or even speculate about things like this? Surely you should just drop to your knees and worship at the feet or Ketron...' Oh, and my personal favorite... 'Who even CARES about the difference between different chords - if I can't tell the difference between a C6 and a C69, how DARE you?'

As if anyone else is likely to buy one either...

I guess some people don't like their little daydreams punctured by reality...

See, I think the difference must be that I actually EXPECT an arranger to play a C7#9 when I do. Or a Cmin(maj7). Lord knows what all these apologists (this must be a first... fanboy defenders of an arranger that nobody yet owns, and even fewer have played!) expect.

But I guess it simply demonstrates what this forum seems to be all about... All out camped warfare between defenders and critics of our favorite arrangers. Of course, again I have to point out, no-one even HAS one to 'defend'. All I have tried to do is get a straight answer to a salient technical question (salient to all but those who don't even CARE whether the arranger plays the chord YOU played!) from the manufacturers and representatives (seeing as how they are here, posting) and somehow, there are members here who feel duty bound to leap to it's 'defense'

I just don't get it... Doesn't anyone else give a damn whether it plays the chords you tell it to..? I can tell you one thing without the slightest doubt. If my Roland could not play the chords you ask it to, at least Ian and Donny would be all over it. Or a Korg. Why is the Ketron getting a free pass..?

Aren't you all MUSICIANS? You really don't care about what chords the audio plays or not...? Damn! You must be Ketron's target demographic after all...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-26-2009).]

10% will say "I'm getting one!"

50% will complain that it's too expensive, heavy, flimsy etc.

30% will say "it doesn't have enough sounds in it, or it doesn't have enough styles available!"

10% will say "maybe I'll get one someday".

Of the 20% who indicated that they might or definitely would purchase, 0.5% will actually do so, yielding total sales of 4 keyboards.

Probably not enough to start an Audya forum.

Ian

The problem Diki is that the question was answered.
The audia can play and recognized chord extensions period.
at least that is what was represented by a Ketron representative here on the forum.
But you are the one choosing not to accept the answer.

All i can say is that i agree with Travilin and the only people
talking about this is only the people that will never buy AUDYA.
It always works like that, its a rule of nature,
none of my buying customers ever called me and killed
me with questiones about my styles, sounds or whatever.
They just send the payment and wait for the product.
Then there is the others, i dont wanna name them here
on this forum, similar to them...calling 5 times a week,
asking every detail and never buying anything.
I was Moderator on Korgs forums, it was always the same story.
I am involved with Korg Italy, directly or indirectly, same story.
I am involved with Ketron, directly or indirectly...
again is the same story.
And the worst of all is, anytime a new product comes up
its the same exact people ALL OVER BSting on the forums.
In my country they say...
TRYING TO PUT A HANDLE ON AN EGG...

I agree also with Lee on the Ketrons Tech support issue...
and also with IAN...i bet that next year and also
2 years from now on this forum there will be not more
then 4-5 AUDYA users including me and AJ.
This stories are just wasted time.

Jimmy Crack Corn......

Eddie

Well here goes......

I agree with Diki about the arranger keyboard recognizing the "weird" chords..I play (on purpose)...This is one of the things I appreciate on the G70...I will play in piano recognition...with a jazz style..and the G70 will follow all my sharp ninths and bi-chordal chords..usually like using a style that the guitar part comps these great extended chords...

So I am with Diki..I think this makes a difference...

BTW:I just came from a couple music stores..played some Yamaha, Korg,Casio and Gem arranger keyboards....and much to my surprise..none of the non Roland keyboards played these chord changes very well..I believe the chord recognition on the Roland (G70) is superior....Maybe that is why most folks here don't think it makes any difference playing the advanced chords....You guys are playing the wrong keyboards,,

Ian , I have to add..I played all the Yamaha piano keybeds (under $800)..and not a single one feels better playing piano..than the G70...No it is not a compromise..Playing a piano keybed is a compromise...it doesn't allow the benefit of playing organ/synth...So in reality the G70 keybed is not a compromise...it is simply the best keybed ...second to none..

May as well inject one other point Ian...you mentioned the Roland piano is inconsistent across the keybed on the G70...That is simply hog wash..

Now for the comparison of the "lowly" Gw/Prelude sounds compared to the comparable PSR series....You guys better spend more time listening side by side...without the hype...just more hog wash... ..and comparing the PSR keybed as superior to the GW-8...give me a break (and yes I dislike the feel of the low end Roland's..but I rather play the Roland keys over the PSR's any day).


Now I feel better..

I’m sorry, Fran, if you were right, I’d agree with you...but..

It's been quite obvious for some time that you aren't a piano player, so I'll take your opinion of piano actions with a grain of salt.

And yes, your precious G70 piano is uneven in the middle...if you can't hear it, it says more about you than the inconsistency of the instrument.

Play the notes slowly, starting at "A" below middle "C" and play up to the "C" above middle "C"....and listen carefully...I did, and so did many others and the consensus was that they are uneven...different tones, and different decays.

Picky...yep...totally, but no piano sound is perfect, and the G70's, although very nice, is no different...
it's disappointing, dear fellow, but true.

It may be perfect for you, but I can't say it would work for me...most of my arranger piano playing is in the middle, as it is for many others.

Now, go back to your hog washing...glad to see you're keeping busy..you know what they say about "idle hands".

Ian

You know...you're right...now I feel better, too.




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-26-2009).]

My G70 is consistent....If I can hear from a real G70 owner...tell me if your piano is consistent.....Still is hogwash to me..

Ah, I'm feeling better as well. This thread couldn't possibly have ended without a little Ian/Fran 'dust-up' .

chas

You can put your boots in the oven, Fran, but that don't make them biscuits.

I had a G70 here for more than several days...I had time to evaluate everything about it...I'm pretty thorough.

If the unevenness doesn't bother you, or you can't hear it, that's okay.

Now, back to the hogs with you.

Here is an example of the G70 "weird chord" recognition..I played over a Dmin,Sus6,9,13# chord..In the middle part you can hear the guitar playing the chord..

https://www.yousendit.com/download/WnBTak94ZEtsMHhMWEE9PQ

OTOH, Ian, I've had quite some considerable time on PSR's, too. Of course, I don't actually OWN one. But I've probably spent as much time on one as you have a G70...

But if my opinion of it is at odds with yours, you are not likely to accept it.

And I'm sorry, but despite your denials of it, I still think the PSR piano sound is the nastiest, brittlest sound available in almost ANY arranger. Truly awful...

Now, does me saying this make it true, in your opinion? Probably not. Likewise you (and so far ONLY you) saying the G70 piano is inconsistent has about as much weight.

But here's perhaps a more objective viewpoint. Find someone, or perhaps several someone's that agree with your viewpoint. No-one has EVER posted a criticism of the G70 piano as 'inconsistent' on the Roland forum. And we are a LOT more picky than the mostly fanboy responses on most of the Yamaha forums. For a start off, any keyboard THAT expensive (and heavy ) is going to have much higher expectations. And so far, in the hands of actual users, NO-ONE has made this critique of the G70 piano.

Except you... Coincidence? Bias? Or just unmitigated bullsh*t? I lean towards the latter.

The sad thing is, should you NEED a list of the G70's faults, you can come to the Roland Arranger Forum, and get an honest shopping list of faults reported by actual users. No shortage of REAL things to pick from. But to make one up, just to make a point...?

You been hanging with CraigUK lately?

And for all of the rest of you that are willing to take Ketron's posted answer, as brief, uninformative and begrudged as it was....

Did you read mrdave's post? Here is a USER, posting what is ACTUALLY going on. And boy, it's got nothing to do with what Ketron have posted here. The audio section does NOT recognize AND play ALL chords. It plays SOME of them, and then adds in MIDI notes for some of the extensions.

Now, I don't know if you know anything about guitars, and guitar voicings, but get a guitarist to play a C6 chord. Now get him to play a C69. IT'S A DIFFERENT CHORD. He doesn't (can't!) simply add another note (the 9th) to what he already played. He's only GOT six strings! That's what makes guitar parts so unique, so difficult to play on a keyboard. And so instantly recognizable when they are wrong.

Maybe, to you, this doesn't matter much. To others, perhaps you MIGHT allow them the luxury of caring.

Look, Ian, for an example, is a Yamaha demonstrator, and will often chime in with completely 'unbiased' opinions about Yamaha's, and 'honest' opinions (strangely, mostly negative!) about everything else... Yet somehow, many of us here don't simply take every last 'fact' he spews as gospel...

Why does taking one Ketron rep's statement as a 'fact' make sense, in the face of, firstly, common sense (I've already posted at length about the impossibility of having the audio data for ALL chords possible available to stream), and now, an actual user's report, where he describes the process in FAR more detail than Ketron were willing to?

It is CLEAR that the answer to my question is FAR more complex than 'The audia can play and recognized chord extensions period (sic)'.

But go ahead and accept all that bull at face value, if you want. But allow me my skepticism. Or we might as well all buy a PSR. Because a part time Yamaha employee and demonstrator has quite definitively told us that every other arranger is rubbish, and that the PSR S900 is by FAR the best arranger out there (OK, MAYBE the T3 is a worthy second keyboard, if you need a worse keybed than the S900 )...

And heck, who are WE to doubt that?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-26-2009).]

Thank you for the great reply Diki; I'll waste no time reading it.

My opinion still stands...the G70's piano is inconsistant in the middle.

Ian

But that's just it, Ian... It's ONLY your opinion. I've done a search here, and at R-A.com.

NOT ONE other post agreeing with that 'opinion'.

But hey, as long as YOU say it is so, it MUST be, eh? I mean, you've never shown ANY bias here before, have you? If yours are the ONLY ears hearing this 'problem' (and unable to hear the widely commented 'thin' Yamaha piano sound), might I suggest a trip to the audiologist...?

Being a Roland fanboy, you would like the GW-8/Prelude more, Fran, but we Yamaha guys just happen to prefer the sound of the S700.

I took your suggestion and ignored the hype about the GW-8/Prelude...and you're right...it is just "hog wash".

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-27-2009).]

Correctomundo.

AND, it may prompt a few of the more open minded Roland fanboys to listen a little closer to the G70's uneven middle.

If that's all it does...that's cool.

Ian

True.

It is a remarkable instrument. Thank you.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-27-2009).]

A new low for you, Ian... even by your abysmal standards

You ARE a CraigUK fan, aren't you? When the facts don't fit, print a lie... Come to think of it, now we have kicked Bush out on his tail, is his brand of Big Lie politics migrating north?

Thanks my friend....unfortunately they're still above yours, but I'm workin' on them.

I'm used to watching you violate your own standards quicker than you can lower them.

You're a tough act to follow.

Ian

Another silly argument that can easily be settles with the Posting of a few Demos that would let people HEAR the arguments instead of reading them....after all it's all about the music ...so boyz post em up shall we? This Cha Cha Cha lesson is getting real old fast, or is their more excuses still left in your bags of tricks?.

Hey, I'm still waiting for a MIDI of you playing that S900(DonM says you're a great player)...just send it to my private e-mail...I'm a patient man, Donny, but come on, time's a wastin'.

Ian

Ian I need to prove nothing to you or anyone else....you should of came to the jam if you wanted to hear me play the S900 I played it for 3 days......believe what Don tells ya... ... on the other hand more excuses & runarounds from what the original subject was that I posted to settle the argument above as predicted. No problem enjoy your music but in the end until I hear what anyone has vs all their BS I take it all talk with a big grain of salt sorry its all about music not BS there's enough of that to go around..

BTW whats a Midi?


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-27-2009).]

Hey, you don't need to prove anything to me, Donny...not at all.

I was just anxious to hear you play...that's a compliment, son...and for me to travel such a long distance at a fairly big expense, is a lot to ask, when a great player like you could whip off a MIDI recording in nothing flat.

I know you'd rather play than Cha Cha, and I believe DonM is a good judge of musicianship, in fact that makes it all the more reason for you to share your talent with me...I'd appreciate the privilege of enjoying it as well.

Come on....send me a SMF of you playing the S900...I want the midi so I can see what you play as well as hear it...the S900 has a Score function...I promise I'll keep the midi to myself and I will not post it anywhere.

Ian

Ian,

Calling Donny "son" is disrespectful...I'm 45 yrs old and if someone I never met called me "son" , would be the 1st person in my life I would kick in the ass.

I guarantee you Donny is an excellent musician whether he plays along with a midi file or goes completely unplugged.

The pissing contest you are having is just bullshit and getting old.... Take the high road and move on.

Start a new thread

The 'high' road is what Ian is already on... He's even having auditory hallucinations about the G70 piano

Well Dan, if you are 45 years old...you should try and act at a level of maturuty that those years reflect.

One thing for certain, is that I have a great respect for Donny, certainly much more than I have for you, but that is not the issue.

The term "son" is used in the same way as as the word "pal", or "buddy" is in my neck of the woods, and if Donny feels I have dissed him in any way, I will apologize, for it was not intended as such.

I just want to hear Donny play the S900...I don't want to hear your description or verifaction of his talent...it's not the same as hearing him play....understand?

Now, why not put that nervous energy to a better use than wasting forum space with your nonsense?

Ian

Nah...you're just having delusions that there`are no uneven notes.

You've hyped that piano so much, that you dare not admit it has a flaw.

You know I'm right...you played the notes...you heard the different tones and decays...doesn't make it a bad piano...lots of things have flaws and are still very useful...in fact we call it "character".

The Roland G70's piano has "character"...happy now?

Ian

You mean, like you and the S900?

Unlike you and PSR world, the Roland-Arranger forum is FULL of flaws that I have discovered and posted about. The piano sound is NOT one of them. Neither has anyone else. I guess we are ALL deaf

Let's make this scientific...

Hands up anyone OTHER than Ian, who thinks that the G70 main piano is 'uneven'...

Oh come on Diki...after all the hype you dished out about the piano, do you really expect anyone to dispute your claims, only to be shredded by your rapier wit?

And then there will be those who have to defend their purchase.

Let's make this scientific...hah...what a joke.

About as scientific as professional wrestling.

Ian

I brought up my age because I know Donny is older than me and your statement soubds like you are challenging Donny ability...
And it caught me off guard... Here in the US, the term "son" sounds degrading and not to be used, particularily when they are older than you....

The kick ass comment was out of frustration of all the pissing that you have with people.. To me the PSRS900 is not in the same league as PA2X , G70 or my SD1...

But I do apologize for my comment..it was not necessary...

Well, Dan I can be a little quick myself, so if it means anything, I'm sorry if I said anything to upset you.

I'm not saying the PSR-S900 is better than any of those other arrangers...if you get the "gist" of my posts, I am saying it is the best for my needs, and though I am very impressed with it's "bang for the buckness"(if that's a word) it is done out of genuine real time experience with it, both as a demonstrator, and using it as my own personal instrument.

Everyone has a "sound" they want to hear...mine is Yamaha...yours will be another brand or model...neither of us are wrong.

What makes these things belly bumping contests, is the statement that a keyboard or arranger is just "the best".

At what? For who? In what situations?

Ideally we should qualify a little more by adding the answers to one or all of those questions...but sometimes in the heat of a discussion, we forget, and then it becomes a urinating competition, and no one will really win, because egos get bruised, and our intelligence to choose the right product for ourselves gets questioned or made fun of...ah...you know how it goes.

I always say...this place is like one big dysfunctional, but mostly happy, family.

You can call me "son" anytime. I will not be insulted, even though I'm nearly 60 years on this earth....I will feel complimented.


Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-27-2009).]

Jerry Reed called everybody son.
DonM

The PRO fisherman Roland Martin calls everyone 'SON' and I guarantee you he is not being disrespectful in any way...he's a good ol' boy.

(Yes I have met him personnaly, and he called me 'son' and I was fine with it)

Lee

Crickets chirping....

Jerry who? Jerry Springer?

Interesting...., As Diki has pointed out only ONE person so far has jumped up and said that piano on the G-70 is "inconsistent sounding". What I find so funny about that statement is the same freakin thing applies to ACOUSTIC pianos too...., and yes I've played some shitty Yammie acoustics that too can be considered "inconsistant" within certain ranges. Piano's are mechanical.., many moving parts..., many factors to consider that would contribute to an inconsistent sound on an acoustic too.

If you feel the piano is inconsistent then perhaps it is (to you).., but understand the next time you sit at a real acoustic piano you just might find the same bloody thing happening.

It's quite simple:
Fret noises to add realism to guitars, performer inhales and exhales plus key noises to add realism to saxes,
and inconsistencies to add acoustic realism to Roland pianos, all part of life's rich pattern.

John

Yep, most acoustics are uneven/ inconsistent, although a good regulation and voicing can minimize it considerably.

Maybe Roland deliberately made their piano inconsistent to make it sound hyper realistic and exactly like an acoustic?

It just makes my earlier statements more relevant.

I'm not saying the Roland piano is "bad" or "awful" or "unmusical".

I'm only saying the middle octave notes are uneven.

Ian

Lee,

I've known Roland Martin since he was a guide at Maryland's Loch Raven Reservoir. I've fished with him on Press Day at the Bass Master's Classic, and I can guarantee you that he would never call me Son--at least not without adding some other words to it. Then I would have tossed him overboard. He is from just below the Mason/Dixon Line, but I've never heard him referred to as a "good ol' boy."

Cheers,

Gary

Squeak,
You got me wandering...so I jst went down to play the Grand Piano RX on my PA2XPRO...Man that is a great Piano and very consistant all the way on all 76 keys...if I had a omplaint it might be that it gets just a little weak on the last few upper keys. Still ok up there though.
Lee

If you can feel a weigth underneath the PA2X than the Audya will have same key bed. The SD1 has the same action as well ..
Fatar Action

Dan, sorry to disagree, but I must.

The PA2xPro keybed and the SD1/1+ keybeds are not the same. Both are Fatar, but they are different models.

The PA1xPro felt about the same as the SD's, although the keys were longer.

I have owned all three.

As for the Audya having the same as a PA2x I don't know as I have not played one yet.

For a start the key length on the PA keybed is longer and the black keys also have sharper edges as opposed to more rounded ones on the Ketrons.

The PA action is also firmer than the SD1/1+ too.

Let's not forget that Fatar make dozens of keybeds, including the great 76 fully weighted one found on the Studiologic/Fatar VMK176 controller.

Now THAT would be one awesome keybed to put on either a PA2xPro or a Audya!!

Dennis

The keybed on the PAXPRO is the:
http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_8PIANO.htm

And it works really well for me.

Not too weak, not too springy, not too firm...just right for general playing, IMHO.

I also will have to say that I liked the T2 keybed pretty well (even hough they are prone to troubles in a few years, it is said)

Lee

leeboy

This is the same keybed used on the AUDYA (the link mentioned above that is).

AJ