One of my all-time favorites. Was a pioneer in using an Echoplex live with his flugelhorn.He was the inspiration for my friend George Gentry, who passed away last year.

Creative, mellow player who deserves a place among the best who've passed on.

Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 12-30-2008).]

May he RIP. Freddie was one of the first jazz musicians I saw live, he was double billed with the late Stanley Turrentine.

........who was married to my former teacher and friend, the late Shirley Scott, queen of the Hammond B3. See what a small community this is?

chas

Chas, it just hit me that you have mentioned THAT Shirley Scott! What a great lady to have known. I used to spend hours listening to her, and liked her as much as some of the "macho" B-3 guys.

We've got to make time to visit this year!


Russ

I fully expect that to happen, Russ, and it will be my pleasure. Hope you have a great new year.

chas

On the ride back from NYC tonight I found a jazz program (I think it was on a NPR station) and they played some of Freddie's music ... They also told how Freddie was 'ostracized' by his 'community' for going 'commercial' for a while, and then he injured his lip and could never get his chops back to what they were ... interesting stuff ...
RIP, Freddie, and thank you,
t.

“Topic: Jazz great Freddie Hubbard dead at 70”

Donny....every time you do one of these postings, the SZ begins to look more and more like an obituary column.

I can't think of anyone in the music world who died that made one bit of difference in my life....not even Elvis or Frankie. But I can think of many postings here that HAVE...in a negative way. I’d really like to stay focused on music and not be distracted with “breaking news” of who just passed on.

This room has been a welcome retreat for me from the harshness and reality of mainstream life. On a good day in here, it’s almost like listening to the beauty of a fine opera with no harsh interruptions.

Music is supposed to be happy, and the same with music talk. I don’t feel it should be punctuated with death notices.

For those of you who are going to argue my point...this is MY opinion. I’m not saying this is the way it should be, but that this is the way I would prefer it to be.

I’m interested to see if anyone else sees it as I do?

Lucky

I don't. Everything seems to be about how YOU see it, how YOU prefer things to be, what YOU want SZ to be about; in other words, YOU, YOU, YOU. The world in general and SZ in particular, has no obligation to conform to what YOU want. If certain types of postings intrude into your little escape from reality, then, as many others have already said, bypass it. I, for one, like the obituary notices. I look at the ones for musicians that I'm familiar with, the rest I bypass. I'm usually curious about personal details in their lives that I may otherwise not have known.

While it's true that every subject may not be entirely appropriate for a forum such as this, zero (0) responses to them will usually weed them out naturally. I think the problem that occurs with forums (fora) such as SZ is that (because of the intimate nature of it) some people tend to invest too much of their 'soul', psyche, whatever, into this cyber-community. As great as SZ is, it's still not a substitute for the real world. It's still (for the most part) a forum about musical instruments (to the extent that arrangers are musical instruments - had to throw that in ).

Soooo, my advice; stop trying to mold SZ into a "more perfect union" and just take the parts of it that, in the words of the great DNJ, "meets YOUR needs".

BTW, anybody I know die this weekend? Jaded minds want to know.

chas

Donny,
Keep posting you have brought much color to this forum. I have visited other forums dealing with my keyboard and they mostly deal with the music issues – informative yes, but I always come back to this place because it is diversified. (interesting) I love the different personalities.
I have no need to use music to hide from the wrongs of this world.

BUT I DO HAVE A NEED TO RESPECT LUCKY’S VIEWS ON A SUBJECT.

John C.

Chas, interesting and wow Shirley Scott your former teacher. Very cool to say the least. I had no idea that she was married to Turrentine.

It may look like an occasional "Obit Column" but I don't mind. A story about a guy like Freddie Hubbard may only occupy if at all a small space in my local newspaper and I may not be aware of it until many months later.

I thought I’d drop off a quick note in here before I start my day.

I “give” on this one. I thought about it all morning and I’ve determined why seeing postings like this bothers me so much.

It reminds me of my own mortality. I took what I call my “law of opposites” and figured it out like this. If I was a young man of 21, 31, 41 etc would this issue bother me? The answer is “no.” But since I’m well beyond 21, I don’t want to be reminded that one day I will be the one being listed somewhere!

You spend your whole life getting good at what you do (music) and when you finally get there……boom…..you’re gone. It’s not fair, but that’s the way it is. So the best thing I can do for myself is avoid seeing references to death and dying and dead. And when I do see them, remind myself NOT to emotionalize!

Lucky

Chas.....

I just now read this.

Now, what I'm interested about is how you arrived at that conclusion?

Perhaps you skipped over the previous line which reads:

"For those of you who are going to argue my point...this is MY opinion. I’m not saying this is the way it should be, but that this is the way I would prefer it to be."

You write: "Everything seems to be about how YOU see it"

Me: “much of what I write IS about how I see it...no different than anyone else in this room.”

You write: "how YOU prefer things to be"

Me: "absolutely correct...I was never a follower. I think a lot and I express my views a lot. Again....no different from anyone else in this room."

You write "what YOU want SZ to be about"

Me: "May I ask what is wrong with that?"

You write: "in other words, YOU, YOU, YOU. The world in general and SZ in particular, has no obligation to conform to what YOU want."

Me: "If you look at my postings, I don't believe I ever demanded that the SZ "conform to what I want." If YOU feel it does, then I'll have to be more careful about how I "word" my postings from now on."

In real life, I'm actually a very open-minded individual who enjoys viewing and debating an issue and hearing the viewpoints of others (the qualifier being when they're not laced with hostility!).

Lucky

Okay, maybe that's a slight exaggeration. Shirley, who had a Master's degree in music, taught music at Cheney University which was walking distance from my house. As a side gig, I was a consultant to their IT dept. (such as it was) and knew the then president socially. My cousin was also chairman of the Sociology dept. there at the time. I knew and socialized with a lot of the staff there but knew Shirley already from both (Philly's famous) Settlement music school and as an active musician on the Philly music scene. The 'lessons' were mostly "tips and tricks" and jams at my house on my trusty ol' C3. I learned a lot and therefore loosely refer to her as 'my teacher'. The Black music community (with a few White musicians such as guitarist Pat Martino and a few others) in Philadelphia at that time was very close-knit and almost everybody knew everybody else. The number of really great musicians coming out of the Philadelphia area at that time was phenomenal. Most moved on to obscurity in New York and LA but some, such as Jimmy Smith, Jimmy McGriff, Groove Holmes (Camden, NJ), Shirley Scott, Grover Washington, Jr., etc. went on to bigger and better things. With the demise of the major Jazz clubs, the music scene changed (as it did in most cities). I could go on (and on, and on) but I'm sure you're pretty bored by now. Just waxing nostalgic.

chas (of the over-the-hill gang)

Chas, no boredom at all on this end. Love to hear those stories. I've been a fan of McGriff, Smith and Groove Holmes. We got to see Groove Holmes at Sculler's Jazz Club in Boston shortly before he passed away. It was a great show, probably about 75 in attendance in a mid size lounge. We had great seats and he could see his every move.

While it may be disconcerting to be reminded of our own mortality by reading obit postings I really think that posting about the passing of great musicians isn't out of place on a music related forum. I hadn't realized Freddie had passed away until I read it here so I appreciated being informed. Yeah we are all gonna die sometime but I try not to let that get to me. But also I do appreciate I am Lucky2Bhere ... and am glad you are all here with me too.

Just occasionally, one of these obits might point you to an artist you hadn't heard before, or an artist you had long forgotten, and remind you how good they were.

That can't be a bad thing, can it?

Not to worry FIRST you have to reach the heights of a Freddy Hubbard or Eartha Kitt before you show up in a forum obit.

Diki...up until now I've had a lot of respect for you, even though I never heard you play.

I'd appreciate if you'd let me hang on to how ever much of that respect I have left.

Lucky

...edited out as promised. Thank you Nigel for allowing me the brief platform.

Lucky

[This message has been edited by Lucky2Bhere (edited 01-02-2009).]

Good prose needs to be preserved.

I say, if you don't want something to be public, use email.

"you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube"

"you can't unwind a clock"

"no point in closing the barn door after the cow is gone"

etc., etc.

"OH LORRRRD, IT'S HARD TO BE HUMBLE"



chas

Chas and Diki...seems like we're always on the same page. and that's not a bad thing, either.


Be well,


Russ

Chas,

What is this? Grade school all over again? Are my in this forum to please YOU? I somehow doubt that. If you don't want to talk about music related topics, that's fine. But don't impede the flow of others.

So what if I dared to "break stride" and mention how I feel about seeing “death notices” posted here or how I feel about “world affairs” topics being brought up? You’re acting like I broke one of the Ten Commandments. Learn to attack the message and NOT the messenger! Out of 250 postings, I contributed more than my share of positive postings, but of course folks like you are too busy being on the “attack“ to even notice it. And the worst of my postings come nowhere near some of what I’ve read here in the past.

I'll use the same argument King used. If you don't like what someone writes, it's simple. Don't read it! It's a no-brainer! Even I'm learning to do that now. And trust me....it works.

Definitely never set yourself up to be judge, jury and executioner. As the good book says, "clear the splinter from your own eye first."

I watched some of you tear Donny apart a few weeks ago and, if I remember correctly, you even had a feeding frenzy with Diki at one point! IMO (note the IMO qualifier) it’s disgraceful and immature for grown adults to do this to each other. At least, Donny's out there using his music talent making music and making money and the same for Diki. I don’t see it should bother anyone how many keyboards Donny went through!

Now, there are certain people in this group I consider "players" and accomplished musicians just by how they talk here, and I have a great deal of respect for them. Unfortunately, I don't consider you to be one of them. So please save your remarks and polished writing skills (?) for someone else. Find a new "flavor of the week," because you're wasting your time with me. I learned long ago to always consider the “source” of negative remarks directed at me.

Lucky

...edited out as promised. Thank you Nigel for allowing me the brief platform.

Lucky

Lucky, in the future I'll try harder to gain your respect. Uh, how do I do that? But first, let me correct a couple of your assertions. First, you've never heard me beating up on Diki. He's one of the handful of guys whom I deeply respect, both musically and (especially) intellectually. In other words, "he gets it". Secondly, if you go back and read all the posts, you will see that I was NOT part of that "feeding frenzy" surrounding Donny's frequent "exchange" of keyboards and the drama surrounding those "exchanges". Frankly, I couldn't care less about the frequency of Donny's keyboard purchases. In fact, I have similar tendencies. I'm just too dumb to sell the old ones.

Frankly, I was just yanking your chain a bit about "going back to being humble" after first letting us know how 'great' you used to be. Here's a tip; want to keep your pulse rate down......don't take me too seriously (but also be careful what you write.....Diki and I and a few others, will be all over it ). If you know ahead of time that you need to remove a post ten minutes later, that's a pretty good indication that you shouldn't post it in the first place.

As far as not respecting me musically, no problem; hardly anybody does . Luckily, I was able to recognize my mediocrity early, and not pursue it (music) as a full-time career. Probably a smart choice on my part. Me, I tend to withhold judgement about someones musical ability unless or until I've heard them play. But as I always say, different strokes..........

chas

Now let us let Freddie RIP