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#249335 - 11/26/08 12:09 AM Again with the Tyros 3
newman Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 42
Hi everyone,
This is my first post; I've gleaned much useful information from this site over the last couple of years and found it a really great resource. Thanks to the many folks who have made so many useful contributions.

I would like to comment on my recent acquisition of a Tyros 3.
My previous instruments = Lowrey TLOKS, Lowrey MX1, Ensoniq 16+, CVP-109, Tyros, Tyros 2 and now Tyros 3.

I've had the Tyros 3 for only a few days now and I know it takes time to get to know a new machine and become accustomed to the different sound and feel of it but here goes.

The Tyros' sounds have been generally good but in my opinion have been lacking in 3 main areas - Piano, vocals and organ sounds.
They have, in my opinion also excelled in some other areas i.e. mega voices, some wind instruments and I’ve also liked the Yamaha’s Styles generally.


Now with the Tyros 3 I have to say that I really like the effort Yamaha has made to the organ sounds and effects – a good and useful improvement over previous tyros models.
The SA2 instruments are also a nice improvement, some really good sounds there - love the breathy sax.

The vocals haven’t effectively changed for 3 models – a bit of a poor effort there.

The Piano – Oh dear…. A VERY POOR EFFORT in my opinion.
I don’t need Irish pipes etc. I want a half decent piano sound.
I’ve heard a better piano on a 35-year-old Optigan (anyone remember those?).

The sample Yamaha used (supposedly taken from the latest CVP series) sounds nothing like any current CVP I’ve heard.
Try listening to the Concert Grand (the name sounds good at least) with the “Initial Touch” off and play E3 and compare it to F3.
A half decent piano should be sampled note for note and not filled between the sampled notes. This technique was used years ago when memory was extremely expensive and sample space was critical.
This is a very, very poor effort and makes it sound cheap (because it is cheap) at least for the mid range of this sample where your right hand tends to hang around quite a bit (the low end and top end are actually quite nice). Add a few effects and you can pretend you have a bunch of other pianos as well i.e. Pop, Rock and Ambient Pianos.
I have to admit I am very disappointed with the piano sound on the Tyros 3 and prefer the Live Grand on the previous tyros keyboards and that’s not saying very much as I still think the Live Grand is thin and lacks substance. Yamaha can do it easily, they just choose not to.

So, overall I’m a little disappointed with a new keyboard for the first time ever.
I would’ve been happier if they’d at least installed a half decent piano for their third model flagship arranger keyboard, but alas not – do Yamaha not want to infringe on their CVP line?
I don’t know, but Yamaha will really have to lift their game for the next model T4 or what ever they’ll call it.
Anybody considering upgrading from a T 2 to a T3 really needs to do his or her homework on this one.
It’s not a sure thing and that is for sure…

The Tyros 3 also feels like it’s been rushed with regards to the balance and selection of a lot of the voices used with the one-touch settings. It’s taking me a lot longer to “get right” than the T2 ever did.

Anyhow thanks for letting me get that off my chest and thanks again to all the posters that make this forum such a great resource.
Chris.

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#249336 - 11/26/08 04:44 AM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Good honest opinions! Welcome to the forum too
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#249337 - 11/26/08 06:57 AM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Good post Chris. Very clear and concise, and I especially find the information useful in that I hope to test drive a T3 in the next few weeks. I'll be paying particular attention to the piano as well as I consider it one of the benchmarks of a quality, arranger keyboard.

Thanks again,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#249338 - 11/26/08 07:04 AM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Welcome Chris.......

Thank you for your very HONEST review.....you just broke many Yamaha Tyros HYPED UP Hearts here but at least you said it like it is for YOUR Needs. Don't be a lurker we appreciate your involvement. BTW did you actually test drive the tyros 3 before purchase?

Happy Thanks Giving!

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#249339 - 11/26/08 03:15 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
newman Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 42
Thanks for your kind words and friendly welcome I really appreciate that.

squeak_D,
Thankyou.

Gary,
I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say after your Tyros 3 encounter.

Dnj,
I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I only gave it a very quick test drive at the shop through the supplied speakers (I may as well have heard it through a clock radio).

I was very impressed with the new Sax, Clarinet and the improved rotary effects and Organ sounds but alas I didn't give the piano a proper evaluation - to me it sounded like a toy piano but I put it down to the speakers - I wanted to believe it would sound so much better through a decent sound system, after all it sounded great on the DVD didn't it?
After I connected it up through my system though, I checked out the Concert Grand Piano and (to my ears) it just sounded like a toy piano through better speakers…
Luckily the T3 still has the Tyros 2 “Live Grand” with a better (but still thin) mid range sound.

I’m sure I’ll learn to love the Tyros 3 in time as it has many enhancements, it’s just that I expected a really good piano sound and for me that just wasn’t delivered by Yamaha.

My advice to any prospective Tyros 3 customers;
Don’t make my mistake, thoroughly test the Tyros 3 before purchase, at least all the sounds and attributes that are important to you.

Chris

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#249340 - 11/26/08 04:23 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
It would be interesting if Steve Demming could find out what settings were used to make the DVD recording of the new grand so good, and some live impressions of it not so good...

Perhaps there's an EQ trick or something?

Because I can hardly imagine that Yamaha didn't actually USE the T3 for the recording, so SOMETHING has got to be able to make it sound that good...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#249341 - 11/26/08 04:34 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by newman:
Thanks for your kind words and friendly welcome I really appreciate that.

squeak_D,
Thankyou.

Gary,
I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say after your Tyros 3 encounter.

Dnj,
I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I only gave it a very quick test drive at the shop through the supplied speakers (I may as well have heard it through a clock radio).

I was very impressed with the new Sax, Clarinet and the improved rotary effects and Organ sounds but alas I didn't give the piano a proper evaluation - to me it sounded like a toy piano but I put it down to the speakers - I wanted to believe it would sound so much better through a decent sound system, after all it sounded great on the DVD didn't it?
After I connected it up through my system though, I checked out the Concert Grand Piano and (to my ears) it just sounded like a toy piano through better speakers…
Luckily the T3 still has the Tyros 2 “Live Grand” with a better (but still thin) mid range sound.

I’m sure I’ll learn to love the Tyros 3 in time as it has many enhancements, it’s just that I expected a really good piano sound and for me that just wasn’t delivered by Yamaha.

My advice to any prospective Tyros 3 customers;
Don’t make my mistake, thoroughly test the Tyros 3 before purchase, at least all the sounds and attributes that are important to you.

Chris



Chris....thanx for the very honest review on the T3..Ive heard the same thing from a few players myself that they had rather kept their T2...but we live & learn eh?...
Its like anything in advertising a product its all looks oh Sooooo Gooood until YOU try it or YOU Taste it or YOU Drive it....its always a buyer beware scenario out there.

Good Luck to you and have a Happy Holiday!!

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#249342 - 11/27/08 03:25 AM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
jwyvern Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 365
Hi Chris,
I can identify with some of your comments about the Concert Piano as it sounds "out of the box".
Some have tried all sorts of designer Master EQ and Compressor settings in an attempt to get the quality to what they think it should be. I've been round the houses myself to a certain extent both with that and speaker setup, and it is possible to get a fuller sounding CGrand.
Having gone far out to start with I find I can get an overall better sound using much simpler settings so for now have settled for Flat Master EQ plus the essential compressor (IMO for piano) set to MS02 with gain upped to +4 (and turned On!).
Having said that if I wanted to "show off" a piano on the Ty3 I think I prefer the Live Grand which is greatly improved on the Ty3 and no longer needs the constant tweaking I was in the habit of doing to it on the Ty2.
It seems more sonorous/resonant and more in line with the upright acoustic grand I grew up with (using above master settings).
Maybe I'm just a heathen and do not know how to appreciate the more subtle tones of a Concert Grand-lol!

John

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#249343 - 11/27/08 04:59 AM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by jwyvern:

Having said that if I wanted to "show off" a piano on the Ty3 I think I prefer the Live Grand which is greatly improved on the Ty3 and no longer needs the constant tweaking I was in the habit of doing to it on the Ty2.


I agree entirely, John...the Live Grand is substantially improved, and is my "go to" piano on the T3.

I'm getting extremely positive feedback on the Tyros3 during my Atlantic tour which winds up tomorrow...the SA2 voices are impressing everyone who hears them, and the the new organ sounds are causing quite a stir as well.

The PSR-S900 is also a hit...can't keep up with the orders for either it or the Tyros3.

A very successful tour indeed.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#249344 - 11/27/08 08:38 AM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Chris, I respect and honor all opinions, I do feel that given some time and effort the Tyros 3 will prove to be a good size step well worth the dollars.

I read the same posts for the Psr2100 and the Psr3000, not worth stepping up. For me, not true. Side by side the Psr3000 was better – worth the dollar difference.

I stepped through Technics kn1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 6500, 7000 and Psr 2100, Psr 3000, Tyros 1, Tyros2 and now the S900. After spending some time with each keyboard I was not disappointed. Out of the box is another story. I have returned keyboards after a single day, that had to be one of my not-so-good days.

Only my opinions, John C.

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