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#248892 - 11/21/08 03:41 PM Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Telmo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 378
Loc: Brazil - South America
Is there anyone in this forum who had the chance to test these 2 top arrangers? Which one of these would be more suitable for those who gig at parties, cocktails, wedding cerymony, church congregation playing OMB?
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Yamaha PSR-SX900, JBL EON ONE Linear-Array PA System
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"We are Old too quick... and Wise too late."

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#248893 - 11/21/08 03:54 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Tyros owners will tell you Yamaha, Roland owners will tell you Roland...

I'm afraid you MIGHT have to check them out for yourself, and see which you prefer personally. Both will do the job you describe, and very well too!

The Roland is a lot heavier (that's the only objective opinion you are likely to get! )...

My take is that, if you ONLY play arranger style, the Yamaha might be the better choice (probably the best selection of styles to choose from), and if you play primarily SMF's, the Roland is probably the way to go. If you do BOTH, you'll probably have to figure out which side is most important... and STILL play both to hear them for yourself.

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#248894 - 11/21/08 04:28 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3295
Loc: Reseda, California USA
I am both a Roland and Yamaha Arranger dealer. The Roland E80 has not been a big seller here in my store. First, many people have a very negative opinion of Roland's direction in arranger keyboards throughout the USA right now. Roland made a decision last year to combine the pro and piano/arranger division. Many of the readers here have seen the main problem.........Roland can't find dealers that want to sell the high end arrangers for a number of reasons.
Of course Yamaha has dozens of arrangers in their line and so they are more dealers selling these keyboards. They have all price ranges covered and as many here have seen, even have support available from Yamaha US right here at the synthzone forum.
Steve Deming has been monitoring this site for years now.
As to which is better I would say that if you need more up to date features and some of the newest and most impressive sounds (articulation 2) you might be better served getting the Tyros3.
You get a hard drive and USB flash drive capability compared to the E80 only having an external compact flash card for storage. The Yamaha also has a built in audio hard disk record feature which allows you to record vocals and instruments along with midi files, styles or songs you've recorded in the Tyros3.
I won't get into the user interface on each because they are both very good.
Some will say the Roland piano beats the Yamaha and vice versa, but both are really good in the sounds.
I hope this helps,


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#248895 - 11/21/08 04:33 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4200
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Tyros owners will tell you Yamaha, Roland owners will tell you Roland...


Go for Korg
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#248896 - 11/21/08 04:46 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Another plus for the Roland's (an 'up-to-date' feature lacking on all these supposedly 'up-to-date' arrangers) is if you are the kind of person that likes to edit and personalize your styles and sequences (and how often do you hear a sequence that you go 'this is already PERFECT!'? ), the Roland's are, by a country mile, FAR easier to get into the style or sequence and edit it, including drum sounds within the kit, tuning, effects, etc..

Nothing even comes close to their lead in this aspect of usage. If you are content to play a less than perfect style you found, or a sequence that the sounds aren't quite right, or the drumkit plays poorly matched drums, you might not need this stuff...

Me, I can't imagine anyone NOT needing this stuff..!

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#248897 - 11/21/08 05:06 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
George is right...go for the Tyros 3...newer sounds(especially SA2), plenty of terrific styles(with the distinct advantage of Yamaha's exclusive mega voice technology), excellent storage capability with built in Hard Drive, and audio recording with overdubbing.

Yamaha has, by far, the most extensive third party support system, and there is a vast amount of high quality styles and SMF available.

The E-80 is a very nice instrument, but it is more comparable to the Tyros 1 than the third generation Tyros 3.

If you are moving your equipment by yourself, the Tyros3 is also a lot lighter.

As was already mentioned....nothing beats trying these instruments out for yourself...it's a big expenditure for most of us, and one to be approached with caution and thoroughness.

BTW...I am a Yamaha aficionado...they are so good, I choose to work for the company...therefore, my comments are clearly biased towards the Tyros 3.

Good luck.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-21-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248898 - 11/21/08 05:16 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3295
Loc: Reseda, California USA
I fully understand that Roland users like the way Roland allows the user to make changes to style and song tracks including individual changing of drum sound parts on their keyboards, but I don't find the Yamaha way any more difficult. With Roland you press a button, move around to the parts, make your changes and press save. On Yamaha, you move around on the mixer panel, make all your changes and select the digital record style function, hit the 2nd tab button and push save and now you have a custom style or song. Both do the job really well.
I think it's which you get used to. I also find that most of my customers would not get into indidvidual drum map changes but rather select a different kit or just use the one associated with the style.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#248899 - 11/22/08 12:22 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Your users don't find themselves editing translated styles or adjusting a MIDI file to play it's best on the Tyros, then, are they George?

Heck, there are whole software only solutions out there for the fact that Yamaha's don't even have a standard GM drumkit, so fixing a handclap that comes out as a cowbell, or any of the other myriad things that can go wrong between different kit layouts (including velocity changes to account for different split velocities for drum sounds, etc.) that it is a wonder why anyone thinks you can easily play GM files on a Yamaha...

Truth is, I never found an SMF I couldn't improve... but I always USED to do it in a sequencer. I can do FAR more, far easier inside the Roland's than I could ever do with a sequencer (unless you start editing the notes themselves).

Your customers, George, are usually concentrating on only the ROM styles and soundset when they deal with you, but take an SMF at random off the web, put it in a Tyros3 and a Roland (it don't matter which one, they all have the same tools) and see which is fastest to make it sound good... IMO, the Roland can make it sound good fastest.

Fast, at least for me, means you are more likely to be willing to do it... hence more likely to sound polished, and slow makes you not willing to use the SMF (or translated style, they are about the same in ease) at all, for how much hoops altering it make you jump through...

I agree about the polished sound of the Yamaha's, and all that... but try the 'you've got two minutes to make a web SMF sound great.... GO!' test...

Anyone with hundreds of styles, or hundreds of SMF's to make sound their best would be well advised to at least CONSIDER this aspect as a main feature. Rather than the afterthought most make it.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 11-22-2008).]

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#248900 - 11/22/08 02:57 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 3979
Loc: Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by Telmo:
Is there anyone in this forum who had the chance to test these 2 top arrangers? Which one of these would be more suitable for those who gig at parties, cocktails, wedding cerymony, church congregation playing OMB?


Hi.

As always, the best to judge what to choose for your needs, are yourself.
But, what I would give a tought, is what brand of those two are going to
update OS and continue bugfixing.
Also, if you're using styles not made by yourself, who will supply and are
there any 3rd party companies who carry on compose new ones?
What about dealers and service in your area, what brand do they sell &
support?

Happy Playing.
GJ
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Cheers 🥂
GJ
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"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#248901 - 11/22/08 03:14 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you're gigging, get the Roland. It might be heavier, but that's not just because it has built in speakers - it's far better built. I bought a Tyros at launch and after using nothing but Roland since '88 its fragility terrified me. A Tyros might be fine parked in a corner of your living room, but life on the road needs a Roland. 'Nuff said.

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#248902 - 11/22/08 05:03 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Seamaster:
. A Tyros might be fine parked in a corner of your living room, but life on the road needs a Roland. 'Nuff said.


'Nuff said? Naaaa.

As a clinician I've done MANY road trips with Tyros keyboards...on and off planes, in and out of trucks, vans etc, and never had a failure....not one.

The E-80 is surely a more "home" arranger, especially because of it's very heavy weight and built in speakers....I surely wouldn't want to be lugging one around, especially in a OMB situation.

There are a lot more pros using Tyros than Roland E-80...ever wonder why? In fact, you could count on one hand the number of E-80 giggers on this forum....many more Tyros users.

Now....that's 'nuff said.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248903 - 11/22/08 05:52 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1156
Loc: Oradea, RO
i believe it's really not relevant what everybody else say or does, it is only you can decide what's best for you. if you ask it as a statistic, you bet there are alot more tyros users than e80, but that means nothing for you as a player yourself. the best way it's not to compare the number of user, but what your needs are and your own preferences.
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Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#248904 - 11/22/08 06:05 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Telmo:
Is there anyone in this forum who had the chance to test these 2 top arrangers? Which one of these would be more suitable for those who gig at parties, cocktails, wedding cerymony, church congregation playing OMB?


Telmo,

Any reason why you are not considering Korg PA2XPro or Korg PA-800?

Are these not available in your area?

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248905 - 11/22/08 06:16 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3705
Loc: Motown
Telmo, now aren't you glad you asked?

George Kaye is trying to be objective here. FWIW, Roland continually shoots itself in the foot with its arrangers because it refuses to market aggressively. That's not to say the products are inferior, much to the contrary. It's like asking why someone buys a Caddie or a Lincoln - there's only personal preference at that point.
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#248906 - 11/22/08 06:23 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40339
Quote:
Originally posted by adimatis:
i believe it's really not relevant what everybody else say or does, it is only you can decide what's best for you. if you ask it as a statistic, you bet there are alot more tyros users than e80, but that means nothing for you as a player yourself. the best way it's not to compare the number of user, but what your needs are and your own preferences.




Now this is a "NUFF SAID"


Very Happy ROLAND Player

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#248907 - 11/22/08 06:32 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by adimatis:
i believe it's really not relevant what everybody else say or does,


Personally, I think all the comments so far were very helpful...especially mine.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248908 - 11/22/08 06:45 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by cassp:
FWIW, Roland continually shoots itself in the foot with its arrangers because it refuses to market aggressively.


To quote Roland G-70 user, friend Diki, from another thread, "The difference is that Roland US do not care one tiny bit about arranger sales, arranger promotion, or arranger users!"

This doesn't exactly inspire confidence in a potential buyer, now, does it?

Let's hope things are better in Brazil.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-22-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248909 - 11/22/08 08:06 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1156
Loc: Oradea, RO
ian, of course all the comments are helpful! especially yours!

but still, they are simply not relevant. they can not be. they are too subjective.

telmo, do your homework and check for yourself all available materials (webs, manuals, demos, forums) and of course both keyboards if possbile!
_________________________
Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#248910 - 11/22/08 08:12 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by adimatis:
ian, of course all the comments are helpful! especially yours!



Thanks Adi...just trying to steer the guy in the right direction.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248911 - 11/22/08 09:26 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Telmo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 378
Loc: Brazil - South America
Ok, let me be more especific. Which of these 2 arrangers are more suitable for plaing at a Church or Congregation gathering where you have to play mostly Easy Listening, Ambient, New Age stuff?? Here in Brazil, the Roland e-80 is a lot cheaper comparison to Tyros 3.

------------------
_________________________
Yamaha PSR-SX900, JBL EON ONE Linear-Array PA System
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Telmo3190
"We are Old too quick... and Wise too late."

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#248912 - 11/22/08 12:17 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Ian, for me and my G70, Roland don't HAVE to give a damn. I already 'get it'. Roland's service in the US is fine, no problems there, it's just their marketing and availability that sucks. Hence the lack of awareness of these great arrangers. At least RolandUS don't make them, so they can only screw up the market, not the product!

Personally, buying the same arranger as everyone else puts up a red flag for me. I don't WANT to sound like everyone else, especially as I don't want to sound like a 'home' keyboard. Roland voice their arrangers primarily for pros, with punchy, live sounding drums and clear, easy to play with (rather than play ON, which is how I feel about Yamaha) styles.

What RolandUS does with their market is of no concern to me. I already HAVE the best arranger for my needs. It only makes it a bit harder to explain to those that don't yet 'get it'...

What's the best selling car in the world? Is it the 'best car in the world'? Not by a LONG shot. So what do you want to buy? The best SELLING arranger, or the 'best' arranger? Looking at sales stats don't tell you a damn thing other than the power of marketing. Me, I'm a musician, not a salesman

I'll let my EARS decide, not some sales chart...

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#248913 - 11/22/08 12:34 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
What's the best selling car in the world? Is it the 'best car in the world'? Not by a LONG shot. So what do you want to buy? The best SELLING arranger, or the 'best' arranger? Looking at sales stats don't tell you a damn thing other than the power of marketing. Me, I'm a musician, not a salesman

I'll let my EARS decide, not some sales chart...


You are partially right Diki, but generally, the better selling cars are the best...e.g.Toyota Corolla.

Something that doesn't meet consumer standards inevitably fails....i.e. General Motors.

Of course you don't want to sound like everyone else...understandable...but unless you work your G70 your way, your keyboard will sound like every other G70...same goes for any keyboard.

My point is I'd rather have good product support, and anyone buying today would/should expect the same...it is comforting to a new user(as well as long term )to know there is good 3rd party support.

You made the quote about Roland, and I only took you at your word, as would anyone else reading your statement.

Yamaha sells well to the church market in my region because of it's "finished" sound....not one church in my area uses a Roland arranger, but there are several using Tyros.

Like you, they let their ears decide.

Ian






[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-22-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248914 - 11/22/08 12:48 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
The Makeup and Cover Tools makes it a snap to make my G70 sound unique. Change a snare drum here, a kick there, revoice for a more electronic sound ensemble with one button press, easily change style part sounds or SMF's. There's only one way to make a G70 sound like any other G70...

Don't do anything to it at all

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#248915 - 11/22/08 12:48 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3295
Loc: Reseda, California USA
"Personally, buying the same arranger as everyone else puts up a red flag for me. I don't WANT to sound like everyone else"
Diki,
This sounds like the buyer that comes into my store and sees a wall of Fender Stratocaster guitars and says "I don't want one of those Strats, everyone plays those" and I say to them "that's because players love the sound, feel, etc. and want what the Strat offers. If this wasn't the case, so many musicians would choose other brands and models".
I also want to respond to my original post in stating that what Roland E80's do are quite good, as is the Tyros3, but the Yamaha has some extra things, as does the Roland (make up tools, etc.) that might be appreciated by the end user.
I also want to mention that the Yamaha is made in Japan and the Roland is made in Italy and as for me, I would prefer the model made in Japan for their reputation for top manufacturing in almost every kind of item they make. Most Yamaha products are now made in either China or Indonesia. Don't get me in trouble here ..........Italian manufacturing is good, but I think we all know here the reputation of things made in Japan.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#248916 - 11/22/08 12:53 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40339
Japan, Italy who cares...None of this means anything unless your a Good player to make it sound good on whatever your performing with with the talent you possess..why does everyone assume the keyboard will make you sound better?

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#248917 - 11/22/08 01:11 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
George, IF ONLY it were as easy to make an electronic keyboard sound as different as a guitarist can make even a Strat sound!

Mind you, what amp you use (or even what model of Strat) can make a huge difference, and then there's the player's technique (not just the notes, but pick angle, playing force, a hundred other things, etc.). Heck, even just changing the PICK can make a big difference.

But put almost anyone behind an arranger, and it sounds like what it is. For starters, there are the styles themselves... From what I read here (your customer base in a nutshell) darn few do anything at all to the styles. Very few do much to the sounds. Even fewer use the sampler. I never heard a Yamaha demo here that I didn't know in a flash it was a Yamaha. Same with most everything else, too. Including Roland, if they don't USE the tools provided!

But if, like those guitarists, your goal is to sound like YOU (not just play like you), the ease with which you CAN alter the entire sound of the arranger is going to be important. And yes, I know that just about all of them CAN be altered, should their owners choose. BUT... how easy the OS makes it for you to do this will often make the difference between someone doing it regularly, and just giving up because it is too much work...

You can lead a horse to water, but if you put the stream out of easy reach, you still can't MAKE him drink

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#248918 - 11/22/08 01:15 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
There's only one way to make a G70 sound like any other G70...

Don't do anything to it at all


My point, exactly...and that would be the same for any keyboard.

Lots of 3rd party support would make it even easier, and excellent manufacturer support, like Steve Deming, goes a long way in making a company that much more enticing to buy from as well as return to.

It doesn't take long for people to become aware of products that aren't being supported properly...word travels even faster nowadays because of the Internet and forums like this one.

Make-up/cover tools will not keep people coming back to buy Roland products...it's service and support after the sale that usually makes the real difference.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248919 - 11/22/08 01:29 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5738
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Telmo:
Ok, let me be more especific. Which of these 2 arrangers are more suitable for plaing at a Church or Congregation gathering where you have to play mostly Easy Listening, Ambient, New Age stuff??


Throw in a little jazz, blues, and Afro-Cuban, and that sounds like my kind of church.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#248920 - 11/22/08 01:37 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
how easy the OS makes it for you to do this will often make the difference between someone doing it regularly, and just giving up because it is too much work...



The Yamaha OS is not that much more difficult than the Roland, as you seem to think, Diki...I have no problem teaching a client how to use Style Creator IF they want to use it.

MOST people do not take advantage of style creation/editing, but usually turn to a third party, regardless of how easy the tools are to use.

So, it is important to most, if not all arranger buyers that there are lots of extras available(meaning factory and third party support).

We both know that most people take the "easiest" way out,not the "easier".

You are the exception maybe, but most arranger users I talk to (Roland or Yamaha or Korg)are always looking for third party styles...they just don't want to make them.

I heard that MidiSpot, a big source of Roland 3rd party styles seems to have abandoned them...is this true?

You can buy Yamaha styles on line....you can get lots of styles (and MIDIS) through the many Yamaha support groups.

That's why Yamaha is successful....hard to beat that kind of product support.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248921 - 11/22/08 01:44 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
You still fail to get the point, Ian...

The Roland's DON'T NEED third party support. Everything that you HAVE to get third party support for on a Yamaha, Roland's already do, very elegantly and well integrated, within the arranger itself. You don't need to fly files out to your computer, you can adjust every aspect of a registration and sound and style and SMF and drumkit quickly and easily, even on the gig, while you are still playing! And then store it.

Exactly where it is best to do it, in the heat of battle, with your full PA and a crowd around you. Trying to hone a sequence at home, under non-gigging situations, is hit and miss at best. But if you need that snare a tad hotter, you'll KNOW it at the gig. Is it ringing, would it work better through YOUR PA if it were tuned down a tad? I don't imagine many Yamaha users are firing up Jrgen's programs during a gig. So you miss the opportunity to sound better.

But Roland's can do this easily. While you play. Beat THAT!

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#248922 - 11/22/08 01:47 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
You still fail to get the point, Ian...

The Roland's DON'T NEED third party support.


I do get the point, Diki...but tell me this...why are Roland users always demanding new styles?

Very few players are going to start fooling with styles on a gig no matter how easy the interface...that's reality...and very few of them even know how in the first place.

Not much good being elegant if no one has the desire to use it...and judging by the clamoring for third party styles for ALL arrangers, it doesn't seem like anyone really wants to.

Again, you are probably an exception.

Ian




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-22-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248923 - 11/22/08 03:16 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9130
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Revoicing Pre-recorded SMF Song Files on a TYROS
Individual Song Track Parameters such as Voice, Volume, Pan, Tempo, etc. can be changed by using the 'MIXING CONSOLE' function.

1) Load a Song

2) Press the [MIXING CONSOLE] button repeatedly to select Song Channels 1 - 8 or Channels 9 16.

3) Press the [C] button to select the 'VOICE' section in the screen.

4) Press the [^] toggle button under the display for a desired Channel and select a new Voice.

5) Press [EXIT] to return to the Mixing Console page.

6) Repeat steps 4 and 5 until all tracks are revoiced as desired.

7) Press the [DIGITAL RECORDING] button.

8) Press the [A] button to select 'SONG CREATOR'.

9) Use the [BACK] and [NEXT] buttons to display the 'CHANNEL' page in the screen.

10) Use the [A] and buttons to select 'SET UP' in the screen.

NOTE: Make sure the song is rewound to the top of the track

11) Press the [D] button EXECUTE


Saving the Edited Song:
1) Press the [I] button to select 'SAVE'.

2) Use the [BACK] and [NEXT] buttons to select the destination.

3) Press the '6' [v] toggle button to select 'SAVE'.

4) If necessary, rename the Song using the toggle buttons under the screen.

5) Press the '8' [^] toggle button to select 'OK' and save the Song.


quote:

That was Steve's directions...Ian you have to be kidding..saying Yamaha is not harder to work with...

And yes , I do edit live..why not..Roland makes it easy and practical....

I think you and most folks really do not understand these tools and their benefits..

Still ..to each his own..try them all and make an informed decision...I am glad I know the difference..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#248924 - 11/22/08 03:32 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Ian you have to be kidding..saying Yamaha is not harder to work with...


I think you and most folks really do not understand these tools and their benefits..



I didn't say it wasn't harder...I said it wasn't THAT much harder...like everything, you get used to it, and it becomes second nature.

But you're right in saying that most folks don't understand these tools and benefits, much like the chord sequencer that Roland dropped....and if we are being real about this, VERY FEW users do any style creation, whether it be on Roland or Yamaha... very few....most can't be bothered or they just find any process too tedious.

So it's not really whether the style creator is easy to use or "elegant"...most don't even try, and want the styles already done for them.

I read the Roland sites, and the Korg sites...people are hungry for pre-made styles.

You and Diki don't represent the average user...you guys are pros....MOST arranger buyers are amateurs....they want everything pre-made, and rarely if ever venture into the inner workings of their keyboards.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248925 - 11/22/08 09:03 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Well, I think I hear that the vast selection of third party styles for Yamaha's is also one of it's strongest points, so THAT need seems pretty universal...

I guess the point, at least for us pros, is that a less than perfect style is just not acceptable. We get payed to sound good all night long, not just for tunes that the style is good for... so having tools available to easily correct some of the, let's just be kind and say 'not QUITE so good' styles out there are pretty much essential.

However, I'm sorry, but there are some pretty sophisticated capabilities on Yamaha's, WAY beyond what your 'average home users' are ever going to want or need. It doesn't stop you from extolling them. And I'm pretty sure that, were Yamaha to actually have editing tools in them as good as Roland's, you wouldn't be dismissing them so lightly, and would probably be pointing them out to everyone that would listen (whether they used them or not!) as something good.

Sadly, the world where ONLY Yamaha's good points are important, and every other arrangers' good points are NOT only exists in your mind. Where I come from, ALL good points are good points, and when I see something great on a different arranger, my first impulse is not to denigrate and trivialize it... it is to ask why I can't have it on MY arranger, too.

I am utterly convinced that, were Yamaha to have as easy and non-technical a way to quickly edit anything, you would be the FIRST guy to brag about it all the time...

But you don't... so you dismiss it. Kind of sad, really

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#248926 - 11/22/08 10:10 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by George Kaye:
I fully understand that Roland users like the way Roland allows the user to make changes to style and song tracks including individual changing of drum sound parts on their keyboards, but I don't find the Yamaha way any more difficult. With Roland you press a button, move around to the parts, make your changes and press save. On Yamaha, you move around on the mixer panel, make all your changes and select the digital record style function, hit the 2nd tab button and push save and now you have a custom style or song. Both do the job really well.
I think it's which you get used to. I also find that most of my customers would not get into individual drum map changes but rather select a different kit or just use the one associated with the style.



That's exactly the way we do it and there are so many styles to choose from you rarely have to tweak a style itself other than maybe switch out a voice or edit some efx. I fond myself creating new voices to use within styles and thats a pretty simple process.

But again the style library is huge so you will always find what you need. The voices are 2008 and the support is second to none by a long margin.

We sell Korg, Yamaha and Roland came in this week to offer their wares, but being primarily involved with Arrangers (which are less likely to become Internet purchases after we spend hours demoing them as was our experience with the higher end Motif and pure Pro workstation keyboards), we did not feel Roland had anything in the Arrangers world that would compete side by side in a quick demo situation. The real benefits of the Roland are deeper than most people who play these things want to go.

Arranger customers generally want to press as few buttons as possible and go. Rarely do I ever get a call on how to change reverb tails, or switch out voices even, I usually tell them to hook up the LAN and they will find everything they need either direct to the board or via their PC. Most people don't even revoice SMFs and are apparently content wth the standard XG voice set. The are amazed when they come back in and I take an SMF and revoice it using Megas, Sweets,Arts and cool voices...and even this can be done automatically and they still don't do it!!

Complicated to them would be putting a Leslie on a Jon Lord distorted organ where you would have to create the distorted organ voice choosing among various distortion EFX and setting distortion levels then save it as a new voice and apply the Leslie DSP to the new voice.

I would not discount the Korg for live play either,Although I found the style support abysmal in comarison, it makes a great traditional workstation and offers many features a live player would use. INstand bass fingering function via a button allowing the bass to follow the lowest note or the root with a push of a button, Yamaha has a few but you have to get into a menu to set them, I just use the AI bass which seems to work out for most chord changes. Sometimes it plays the root, sometimes not.

Cost and keys can be a huge consideration as well Tyros is pretty expensive and is 61 keys. You can get a G70 for far less with 76.

Play them. You will know immediately which one will sing to you. It's like buying a guitar. Initial impressions are usually the winner. This from a guy who bought the Korg PA2x initially "on paper", sold it and ended up with the T3.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

Top
#248927 - 11/22/08 10:20 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by George Kaye:
"Personally, buying the same arranger as everyone else puts up a red flag for me. I don't WANT to sound like everyone else"
Diki,
This sounds like the buyer that comes into my store and sees a wall of Fender Stratocaster guitars and says "I don't want one of those Strats, everyone plays those" and I say to them "that's because players love the sound, feel, etc. and want what the Strat offers. If this wasn't the case, so many musicians would choose other brands and models".
I also want to respond to my original post in stating that what Roland E80's do are quite good, as is the Tyros3, but the Yamaha has some extra things, as does the Roland (make up tools, etc.) that might be appreciated by the end user.
I also want to mention that the Yamaha is made in Japan and the Roland is made in Italy and as for me, I would prefer the model made in Japan for their reputation for top manufacturing in almost every kind of item they make. Most Yamaha products are now made in either China or Indonesia. Don't get me in trouble here ..........Italian manufacturing is good, but I think we all know here the reputation of things made in Japan.




That's funny I get the same thing. They don;t realize the Fender is probably the most VERSATILE guitar made. Are you happy with three tones or five? The problem with Roland is they are all about the Fantom. Everything else for them is an "also ran" the red headed stepchild.

DIKI You must have Roland arranger players on every corner down there since you have this insatiable need to sound different....

There aren't enough of them around for people the even consider they sound the same as the next guy. There is no "next guy."


Yamaha treats ALL their keyboards the same with support and sales tools and divisions. The support is amazing. If I have a question in the store I can call Yamaha and get someone immediately being a dealer in the middle of a demo that's not only helpful but the customer witnesses that support level as well..



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-22-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

Top
#248928 - 11/22/08 10:22 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Revoicing Pre-recorded SMF Song Files on a TYROS
Individual Song Track Parameters such as Voice, Volume, Pan, Tempo, etc. can be changed by using the 'MIXING CONSOLE' function.

1) Load a Song

2) Press the [MIXING CONSOLE] button repeatedly to select Song Channels 1 - 8 or Channels 9 16.

3) Press the [C] button to select the 'VOICE' section in the screen.

4) Press the [^] toggle button under the display for a desired Channel and select a new Voice.

5) Press [EXIT] to return to the Mixing Console page.

6) Repeat steps 4 and 5 until all tracks are revoiced as desired.

7) Press the [DIGITAL RECORDING] button.

8) Press the [A] button to select 'SONG CREATOR'.

9) Use the [BACK] and [NEXT] buttons to display the 'CHANNEL' page in the screen.

10) Use the [A] and buttons to select 'SET UP' in the screen.

NOTE: Make sure the song is rewound to the top of the track

11) Press the [D] button EXECUTE


Saving the Edited Song:
1) Press the [I] button to select 'SAVE'.

2) Use the [BACK] and [NEXT] buttons to select the destination.

3) Press the '6' [v] toggle button to select 'SAVE'.

4) If necessary, rename the Song using the toggle buttons under the screen.

5) Press the '8' [^] toggle button to select 'OK' and save the Song.


quote:

That was Steve's directions...Ian you have to be kidding..saying Yamaha is not harder to work with...

And yes , I do edit live..why not..Roland makes it easy and practical....

I think you and most folks really do not understand these tools and their benefits..

Still ..to each his own..try them all and make an informed decision...I am glad I know the difference..


Or you can simply use "Auto revoice" and then save the song using song creator.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

Top
#248929 - 11/22/08 11:09 PM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Actually, yes, most of the arranger players I know down here are Roland users...

Not that I know that many... this is still a hotbed of bands, rather than OMB's, on the whole. That's one of the reasons I love my G70. It's a pretty unapologetic full band keyboard, AS WELL as a decent arranger.

Personally, I prefer arrangers, with their immediacy of editing and quick tone selection over WS's for live gigging. If you have plenty of time to set everything up in advance, a WS might sound a bit better (but not for the music I tend to play), but go out and play a pickup gig, where you need splits and layers at the drop of a hat (I'm not really one of those 'one sound at a time' type players ), and an arranger is FAR easier to setup on the fly...

So far, just about every band I've played in has gone 'Holy cr@p! That things sounds AMAZING! What in the hell is it?'. This, in a town with plenty of Tritons, Fantoms, Motif's, etc.. I definitely have never ONCE got a negative comment about it being an arranger! In the studio, it's getting plenty of track time even against VSTi's and the K2500, Tritons, etc..

So, all in all, I don't much care for what the 'average' arranger user thinks of it. I'm not one of those...

And, were I to use even the vaunted T3, you BET I would be still trying to sound 'different' But having a harder time to do it..!

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#248930 - 11/23/08 02:54 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
[B]There are a lot more pros using Tyros than Roland E-80...ever wonder why? In fact, you could count on one hand the number of E-80 giggers on this forum....many more Tyros users.


Not here (in Europe). Yamaha lags a distant third behind Roland and Ketron for professional use here.

The last time I auditioned a Tyros - the Tyros 2, earlier this year - I rejected it in favour of an E-80 for several reasons, but one of the main ones was that the Yamaha appeared to be made from what could charitably be described as sub-Toys R Us cheap Chinese plastics. Sat next to an E-80 it's quite obvious which one has been designed with the professional gigging musician in mind.

Top
#248931 - 11/23/08 03:08 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:

So, all in all, I don't much care for what the 'average' arranger user thinks of it. I'm not one of those...



Thanks Diki, you have understood my point exactly...you aren't the "average" arranger user.

Roland's third party support is dismal, and reflected in their sales....all one has to do is read the forums, including this one.

Sad, really, because they might have done much better by pitching to the home market instead of the pros who seem to be ashamed to be caught on stage or camera with an arranger.

Roland's marketing has also really bonked things up for sure....that's why they are languishing on the shelves and in warehouses(according to Fran).


I would be very surprised to see Roland introduce a replacement for the G70...and if they do, it will probably be quite different than the present model, and either made more specifically for the pro, or geared more clearly to the home buyer.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-23-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248932 - 11/23/08 03:31 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 3979
Loc: Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by Seamaster:
......it's quite obvious which one has been designed with the professional gigging musician in mind.


Nope, those keyboards are ment for the home market, not "proffessional gigging".
But, some brands are better build than others, that's correct.
GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#248933 - 11/23/08 04:53 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Gunnar Jonny:
Nope, those keyboards are ment for the home market, not "proffessional gigging".



Correctomundo.

The E-80 is clearly a home keyboard, where weight and ease of transport are less of a consideration.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248934 - 11/23/08 05:25 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 3979
Loc: Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Correctomundo.

The E-80 is clearly a home keyboard....


So are the Tyros etc.
Never seen any advertising from any of the arranger (autocomp) keyboard manufacturers
where they directly aim this kb's to other than the home market.
The fact that some use it that way, don't mean it's the so called "pro users" who are
the market segment.

GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#248935 - 11/23/08 05:50 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Gunnar Jonny:
So are the Tyros etc.
Never seen any advertising from any of the arranger (autocomp) keyboard manufacturers
where they directly aim this kb's to other than the home market.
The fact that some use it that way, don't mean it's the so called "pro users" who are
the market segment.

GJ


I agree wholeheartedly...even the G70 is a home keyboard, although it tries, rather unsuccessfully, to straddle both segments, and please everybody.

I dont know what the key to success is, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone.

Sure some pros use arrangers, but the majority of buyers are amateurs and/or home users.

Having said that, the Tyros, because of it's lighter weight and removable speakers, is clearly more portable than the E-80.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248936 - 11/23/08 05:50 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
TommyF Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 648
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
Originally posted by Gunnar Jonny:
Never seen any advertising from any of the arranger (autocomp) keyboard manufacturers where they directly aim this kb's to other than the home market.


Not correct! Korg has always marketed they arranger top models towards professional players. Here is an excerpt from the Pa800 brochure:

"The Korg Pa80 is the most successful Professional Arranger keyboard ever produced. Used by tens of thousands of musical professionals in every country of the world, the Pa80 is the industry standard. So, developing the next generation of Arranger from Korg - the Pa800 - required we understand the needs of the modern musical professional whilst respecting the technology chosen by so many musicians worldwide."

Kind regards,
Tommy
_________________________
Yamaha PSR-S770, Korg Krome 61

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#248937 - 11/23/08 05:58 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by TommyF:
Not correct! Korg has always marketed they arranger top models towards professional players. Here is an excerpt from the Pa800 brochure:

"The Korg Pa80 is the most successful Professional Arranger keyboard ever produced. Used by tens of thousands of musical professionals in every country of the world, the Pa80 is the industry standard. So, developing the next generation of Arranger from Korg - the Pa800 - required we understand the needs of the modern musical professional whilst respecting the technology chosen by so many musicians worldwide."

Kind regards,
Tommy


Reason for edit:

Upon reflection, you are right Tommy...Korg is trying for the pro in their ads.

Not sure how successful it will be in the North American market.

Ian




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-23-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248938 - 11/23/08 06:12 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 3979
Loc: Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by TommyF:
Not correct! Korg has always marketed they arranger top models towards professional players.


WOPS.... then I was wrong. Any other manufacturer did the same?
Still I'm sure it's the volume sales who are the goal, i.o.w.
the homeusers
GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#248939 - 11/23/08 06:20 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
TommyF Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 648
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Do you believe everything you read, Tommy?


I thought that we were talking about how the keyboard manufacturers market their instruments. I just quoted the Pa800 brochure.

Kind regards,
Tommy


[This message has been edited by TommyF (edited 11-23-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha PSR-S770, Korg Krome 61

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#248940 - 11/23/08 06:23 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by TommyF:
I thought that we were talking about how the keyboard manufacturers market their instruments. I just quoted the Pa800 brochure.


Kind regards,
Tommy


Please see my revised post Tommy...
you are right...Korg is trying for the pro market.

My "tone" was just to indicate that a lot of this is marketing hype, and was not meant as a personal slight.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248941 - 11/23/08 06:24 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40339
Fran & I had a rare night off together last night & decided to go out for diner with the ladies & bounce around to catch a few Live acts in the area. First place great Italian food & a very pretty girl doing a power single act using a Roland E500 arranger/vocals & Flute......second place for Irish coffee & deserts a 1700's Tavern in a Philadelphia suburb a great Player/Singer using a Korg Pa800 & Bose Pas......a real nice evening of music & friends.

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#248942 - 11/23/08 06:29 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
First place great Italian food & a very pretty girl doing a power single act using a Roland E500 arranger/vocals & Flute......second place for Irish coffee & deserts a 1700's Tavern in a Philadelphia suburb a great Player/Singer using a Korg Pa800 & Bose Pas......a real nice evening of music & friends.


Nice to see these home keyboards used in professional situations...just sold a PSR-S900 to a single performer....guitar player who sings and plays along with SMF.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248943 - 11/23/08 06:30 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
TommyF Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 648
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
My "tone" was just to indicate that a lot of this is marketing hype, and was not meant as a personal slight.


OK, no harm done. I have edited my post too

Kind regards,
Tommy
_________________________
Yamaha PSR-S770, Korg Krome 61

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#248944 - 11/23/08 07:35 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Correctomundo.The E-80 is clearly a home keyboard, where weight and ease of transport are less of a consideration.


The Tyros is certainly easier to transport from living room to child's bedroom and back again. That much is "correctomundo". But the E-80 is better built to withstand being transported in and out of vans and venues. Do you see?

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#248945 - 11/23/08 07:54 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Seamaster:
The Tyros is certainly easier to transport from living room to child's bedroom and back again. That much is "correctomundo". But the E-80 is better built to withstand being transported in and out of vans and venues. Do you see?



I can see you don't mind lugging around a very heavy "home" keyboard...that's "correctomundo".

I played and spent some time with the E-80...I don't think it's better built, but it is most certainly much heavier than the Tyros1 which is roughly it's counterpart....it is no where near the Tyros3 in sound or build quality.

Do you actually gig out with the E-80? That thing must weigh a ton in a road case.

Your child has a Tyros in his/her bedroom?

Cool! Congratulations.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248946 - 11/23/08 08:08 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
I played and spent some time with the E-80...I don't think it's better built, but it is most certainly much heavier than the Tyros1 which is roughly it's counterpart..


I can see why you rely so much on smilies in your posts. No one who has given even a cursory examination of the build quality of both instruments side by side could argue this with a straight face.

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#248947 - 11/23/08 08:13 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Actually, yes, most of the arranger players I know down here are Roland users...

Not that I know that many... this is still a hotbed of bands, rather than OMB's, on the whole. That's one of the reasons I love my G70. It's a pretty unapologetic full band keyboard, AS WELL as a decent arranger.

Personally, I prefer arrangers, with their immediacy of editing and quick tone selection over WS's for live gigging. If you have plenty of time to set everything up in advance, a WS might sound a bit better (but not for the music I tend to play), but go out and play a pickup gig, where you need splits and layers at the drop of a hat (I'm not really one of those 'one sound at a time' type players ), and an arranger is FAR easier to setup on the fly...

So far, just about every band I've played in has gone 'Holy cr@p! That things sounds AMAZING! What in the hell is it?'. This, in a town with plenty of Tritons, Fantoms, Motif's, etc.. I definitely have never ONCE got a negative comment about it being an arranger! In the studio, it's getting plenty of track time even against VSTi's and the K2500, Tritons, etc..

So, all in all, I don't much care for what the 'average' arranger user thinks of it. I'm not one of those...

And, were I to use even the vaunted T3, you BET I would be still trying to sound 'different' But having a harder time to do it..!


I am sure no one will diss an arranger who hires someone to play for a night. You would be surprised to realize how many people don;t even know the quality Arrangers even exist, I ALWAYS demo an arranger to anyone looking for Home Recording equipment. I cannot remember when someone already knew what they could do for a song writer hobbiest with home studio over a Workstation.

Even those who come in looking for Motifs were not aware of the capabilities of Arrangers regarding making 3 quick layers and left hand separate sounds, Splits and generally on the fly sound creation. In the Roland G70s case and the Korg one would not suspect anything is different from any workstation Keyboard.

The Yamaha's are giveaways with the Tyros big square lit up buttons and 61 keys. Especially the speakered 900's, until they are heard.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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#248948 - 11/23/08 08:21 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Seamaster:
I can see why you rely so much on smilies in your posts. No one who has given even a cursory examination of the build quality of both instruments side by side could argue this with a straight face.



The smilies? I just didn't want to hurt your feelings about the E-80, as you probably own one and have the need to defend it...so I try to let you down easy.

You really don't actually gig with one of those do you?

Maybe it's just parked next to your child's Tyros in the bedroom?

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248949 - 11/23/08 08:23 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40339
It weighs no more then a good set of QUALITY Speakers, Amps, PA, etc which you can easily roll into the gig on a Rock N Roller cart.....

man when does this pissin contest ever end?

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#248950 - 11/23/08 08:31 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
It weighs no more then a good set of QUALITY Speakers, Amps, PA, etc which you can easily roll into the gig on a Rock N Roller cart.....

man when does this pissin contest ever end?


How do you get the Rock and Roller cart up a flight of stairs, Donny?

That must be fun...

The E-80 weighs 50 lbs without a flight case...that's even more than the G70.

You won't use a G70 because of it's weight...that's what you've told us here on the forum.

Would you use an E-80 for gigging?

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248951 - 11/23/08 08:40 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40339
One Two Cha Cha Piss...I give up.....Ian go play with someone else...btw your insistent Yamaha delusions don't fly with me..

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-23-2008).]

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#248952 - 11/23/08 08:55 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
One Two Cha Cha Piss...I give up.....Ian go play with someone else.


Well Donny, if you want to avoid the questions, that's fine with me.

One two bossa nova...
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248953 - 11/23/08 09:00 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40339
Well now I have two on my list to ignor.

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#248954 - 11/23/08 09:14 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Well now I have two on my list to ignor.


Does this mean I'm not getting a Christmas card?
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248955 - 11/23/08 09:20 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by Seamaster:
Not here (in Europe). Yamaha lags a distant third behind Roland and Ketron for professional use here.

The last time I auditioned a Tyros - the Tyros 2, earlier this year - I rejected it in favour of an E-80 for several reasons, but one of the main ones was that the Yamaha appeared to be made from what could charitably be described as sub-Toys R Us cheap Chinese plastics. Sat next to an E-80 it's quite obvious which one has been designed with the professional gigging musician in mind.


I can understand someone preferring voices,features, feel etc when choosing a keyboard. If one needs to impress people with the LOOK of the keyboard rather then their playing I really don;t think the materials will make a difference. But then again Guitar makers save a lot of money making cheap guitars that "look" great.

I don't understand the obsession with heavy Iron! Everything is made of plastic today, Its weight to strength ratio is an advantage over steel.

I don't think either keyboard would survive a 5' drop worse than the other. Well the heavier one might sustain more injury internally. I would think Plastic can absorb more impact then metal which transmits the impact to the inside.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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#248956 - 11/23/08 09:36 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#248957 - 11/23/08 10:02 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9130
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Fran & I had a rare night off together last night & decided to go out for diner with the ladies & bounce around to catch a few Live acts in the area. First place great Italian food & a very pretty girl doing a power single act using a Roland E500 arranger/vocals & Flute......second place for Irish coffee & deserts a 1700's Tavern in a Philadelphia suburb a great Player/Singer using a Korg Pa800 & Bose Pas......a real nice evening of music & friends.


Yes it was a fun night..
It also showed a different way "pros" use their "home arrangers"..

Kristin used her E-500 for mic and effects ..as well as the sound source to play sequences from her laptop...playing keys on the E-500...She involved her regular following to sing with her..

Joe used his PA800 in a way Diki mentioned..as a quick set up instrument..
He plays left hand bass with right hand tones such as brass, piano, strings etc..The drums are the auto play...and vocals/harmony are also from the PA800..
Joe is the best at backing quest singers..in real time....It is always party time on Joe's gigs...

The funny thing about Joe's set up..he has a Bose 4 feet from his ear..and uses a floor monitor in front of the "stage" area...I guess the Bose doesn't cut it for him in this room..

A side bar....Joe stated he absolutely hates the PA800...and compared to his previous model the PAx model with speakers..the PA800 is half the weight and half the "balls" of the older model....by the way the PAx is in the repair shop.....speakers didn't hold up well...


Joe's act was more energy, but Kristin was early in her show {dinner set}...

BTW: the E-500 did sound better than the PA800...
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#248959 - 11/30/08 02:58 AM Re: Tyros 3 x Roland e-80, which one is better for OMB?
Anonymous
Unregistered


After reading all of this debate let me say something:

when it comes to playing arranger keyboards, how well you perform is how tactfully you use sounds. you may want to sound just like the real song or add some extra taste and color.
IMO the player who thinks and sets up his instrument before playing, will perform better. So fast operating functions may not make huge differences. I remember a wedding where the player(who thought he is a pro!) was asked to play a song which certainly he had no pre-sets for it. with his big korg although he used some of those fast functions, he performed very very ordinary and in my opinion somehow nonsense.
my brother that is just a listener told me that you play this song far too better and more exciting(I am a hobbyist player).

this is where fast swithing or grooving functions are not that much helpful.

all I want to say is: if you already set up your instrument for a song, there will be nothing you can do with g-70 that you cant do with tyros although ways are different.

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