Scott Now that you have played & auditioned the Tyros 3 I & others are very curious to hear about your experience & very honest review of this arranger compared to your Tyros 2.

Thanks

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-21-2008).]

Scott
Im particulay interested in the
A to B results of your demo between the T2 & T3 yesterday regarding styles/drums/sounds we all know the rest.

Don't tell me you're a getting a Tyros3...

NO Ian NOT ME!!!! I thout I already explained my thoughts on T3..............


But SCOTT is teetering like Steve M on the brink on Tyros3ism wonder if they will break to the hype & on hands demo comparisons?

Scott is too wise to buy into any hype about anything...I'm sure he'll take all things into consideration before he changes from T2 to T3, if at all.

Personally, I think the T3 is intended more for the T1/3K/S900 owner, although I'm sure the great new features will pull in more than a few Tyros2 users as well.

You might see some Korg users making a change to the T3 as well...I was talking to several PA owners on line this week who are very interested.

Ian

If only everyone felt the same way...

We might have to start talking about music around here, instead of gear wars

Korg users Ian....& give up all those great features the Pa2x has compared to Tyros 3?.....that should be interesting.....

We'll hear Scotts in-depth report very soon dont you worry.... I'm sure, now that he has had a chance to A/B them both intensely.
People want the truth.

True Diki...some of us have learned the hard way about buying into "hype"...then there are some that never learn.

My old man used to say, "When you do what you always do...you get what you always got".

Ian

Yep, I was talking to him today on Skype.

He's reviewed it pretty thoroughly.

Ian

PS...one Korg owner I was talking to has already purchased a T3 since we were last in touch.

Shame some of us haven't learned not to spew it out, as well...

Well I know its not me......

Well Donny, when it comes to sound it's more a matter of personal opinion and taste than any truth, so I'm just going to share my honest 'opinions' here.

Yep, I was talking to him today on Skype.He's reviewed it pretty thoroughly.Ian
[/QUOTE]

Hi Ian . Really enjoyed our tete to tete chat on Skype voice chat today. And yes, Ian and both came away with very similar Tyros3 evaluation conclusions. I really like the newly added T3 features (sliders & new SA2 voices) but my primary interest in even possibly upgrading was for an improved piano sample. Regretfully, I came away underwhelmed, even after spending 30 minutes unsuccessfully tweeking the EQ (reverb) & compressor settings to get it to sound better. That said, I feel I've got my Tyros2 Piano voice tweaked to sounding far better On T2 than I could get on Tyros3.

ONE THING I noticed right off when comparing T2/T3 side by side is the T3 has a distinctly DIFFERENT 'overall sound' than T2, with the T3 warmer (deeper) vs T2 brighter (sparkly). I prefer the T2's overall sound, but that may have more to do with simply being more accustomed to its sound engine more.

As much as I enjoyed playing the Tyros3 and its new sounds & features, as a live player, I found the new SA2 voices and it's button activation (instrument noises, taps etc) a bit gimicky, especially because my left hand is already kept busy 100% of the time playing chords & progressions and bass line fills between chords. Interestingly enough, both DrBob & TomTomSF who watched me play T3 felt I was implementing the SA2 type sounds thru my (velocity senstive) playing technique alone, and acheivable with Tyros2 SA voices.

That said, I think the T3 would be a must upgrade for T1 or PSR3000 owners, or 4 people into studio recording where mixing with sliders & subtle horn/guitar SA2 articulations would be especially useful. As primarily a live entertainer player though, I feel I'm able to achieve satisfyingly realitic instrument emulation with the Tyros2 and triggering SA voices via my fingers alone.

In conclusion, I think everyone needs to actually play a Tyros3 for themself and evaulate their personal needs & priorities before making any KB upgrade descion. In the meantime, enjoy the KB you own and bring out your musical best with it.

Regards,

Scott

Scott

I know...maybe there's a group you and I can join?

HA

Hyperbole Anonymous

or AHA

Advanced Hyperbole Anonymous.

Bring a friend.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-21-2008).]

Scott,

Nice to talk with you again as usual.. Also thank you for your indepth review of the Tyros 3, I'm sure coming from a pro like yourself this info will surly be absorbed by many perspective buyers & help them to decide if they really want to purchase one or not too.

L8tr

Here's a quick followup update to my evaluation above. After talking with Ian again on the phone, we found more accurately descriptive words for the overall sound of Tyros3 vs Tyros2. The T3 sounds "thicker and dense", vs the T2 sounding brighter with more transparency and detail. - Scott

T'was good to talk with you again, Scott and I highly value your impressions of the Tyros3.

It does have a more dense and thicker sound...I would call it more robust and powerful to be even more specific.

I have also discovered that with adjustments of the EQ and compressor, different settings will give us very different Tyros, and one can achieve a wide range of overall sound ranging from the aforementioned "robustness" to the "transparent and detailed, and everything in between.

It is a Tyros that will appeal to an even broader range of users, but still have that wonderful characteristic "Yamaha" sound.

I'm still knocked over by the SA2 Saxes...even without using the Art1 and Art2 buttons, the sounds respond very realistically...with the buttons, one can add even more.

It sure has created a lot of excitement, both on the forums and to the people to which I have already demoed it here at my studio.

Ian

I have found the opposit 50/50 at best through many emails & phone calls........some love it and many dislike it & wish they didnt buy it & kept the Tyros2...its is what it is....

dense?

More like robust, substantial, beefier.

Definitely a stronger sound.

This one responds to EQ'ing more than Tyros2, so there is more scope to the overall sound.

Play one, Donny...then you'll know.

Ian

wow a dense compressed sound...no thanx.

I want a RAW LIVE Sound like I have now with in your face drums & bass baby YEAH!!

Did you hear it "live" yet Donny?

Play one, and then give a opinion that has some substance to it...

Ian

Hi Scott,
Thanks for the review. I have had my Tyros 3 for a week now - upgraded from the PSR3000 so it was a good change for me. I found your comments about the SA voices very interesting because today on my first gig with the T3 I felt like the "do it for you" effects actually got in the way of some of my playing. I also felt like it is going to take a lot of EQ tweaking to get the sound I like for the tunes I play. Overall though I am very pleased with my purchase and think the keyboard is a winner for Yamaha. I especially like the new display. I certainly agree that those who are quick to judge need to actually hear the keyboard in person first.

Hammer

Many of the people on my daily email list have tyros 1 and tyros 2 and none of them are upgrading to tyros 3.
I have tyros 2 and Roland E 80 and will not be upgrading either.
these two work just fine for all my needs at this time,
Best to all,
Bebop

Excactly Bill same results Im hearing could be a Yamaha DUD this tie around I hope not & maybe released too soon after T2?

I believe that pretty much sums it up. If I were a Live Player I would not even play the T2 I would go directly to the Korg PA2x, Thats a live keyboard in every sense.

IN the Studio the T3 is in my opinion where it does its best work. IT has replaced no less than 5 sound modules and a Triton in mine. I can't see using those SA@ buttons live (but you can set them to play on auto like guitar noise etc)

Great review and sounds on ALL keyboards are subjective at best and referenced buy what you play the most. My wife Loves the Roland RD700 digital better than any Yamaha CP300.

The PA2x flute sounded less like a flute to me than the Tyros 2 or PSR900 patch....but to others the opposite may be true and no one is wrong.

K O R G PA2x is the choice for you then....It has the live unpolished grit a live player would love.

Hammer,

I certainly agree about the EQ...I've been used to listening to my PSR-S900, and the Tyros3 has such a substantial sound, that it took me awhile to become accustomed to it, and then change the EQ and compression setting according to what I liked to hear.

There are a few suggested settings on YPKO that worked well for me.

BTW, don't mind Donny...he's firmly ensconced in the Roland camp for the time being, and everything else is unfit as far as he's concerned...even if he hasn't played it or heard it "live".

Congratulations on your new instrument.

What sound system are you using?

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-21-2008).]

As a common or garden non-pro board player,I totally understand the above rich comments about the Tyros3...and any other KB , for that matter, because the Pros like most of you here are in TWO different worlds at the same time. Part of you is a trained professional musician who lives to HEAR the sounds you are making and that is sometimes more important than the other half of you which is an ENTERTAINER.!
For the vast majority of your audiences, the sounds they like to hear are just for fun whereas our own ears want to hear MUSIC and sounds which are as near perfect as possible.
That is why my own appraisal of the Tyros3 is one of sheer amazement in its state of the art simulation of the real instruments (because most of the sounds ARE real, sampled!)
I am not a professional i.e. I don't play in order to make a living, so my enjoyment of music is always stronger because I can take time to listen to the keyboard and marvel at its power.
That is also why I had the wonderful experience last week of attending a live demo of the Tyros3 by Peter Baartmans, Yamaha's (and possiby the world's) top demonstrator of Yamaha machines.
I was in total awe of the man. His artistry is truly awesome and his knowledge of Tyros3 is also to be wondered at. His demo shows all the newer aspects of the board and in particular the ART1 and ART2 additional tabs.
My point is that if you are first and foremost a LISTENING musician then Tyros3 is for you. But if you are firstly an ENTERTAINER you can entertain with ANY KB and I envy you all
cheers
Eddie Johnson

------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

First thing I'd do if I could compare T2 to T3 is turn OFF all the compression and EQ...

You want to find out if there's a REAL difference between the two? Make sure you are hearing apples to apples...

For me, the Tyros's are squashed enough at the sample level without doing it all again at the mix buss

I gave Korg a shot many times through the years most recently the Pa800....unless the change the OS folder system & increase their overall Style library its definitly Not a contender for my needs....although I will say Korg this time around has made some pretty nice significant changes with many features for the gigging musician. Ive played & gigged Korgs since the early 80's my first was the Korg SAS20 personal KB http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/en/extra/korgstory_sas20.html.

PS: Ian owning a t2/s900 etc, etc, ....& hearing the T3 live is NOT going to change the fact that the MFD doesn't save transpose, VH unit is a toy kazoo, the ecompressed sound is really unimpressive to many new owners. As for touting Roland?.....Unlike you Ian I will say it like it is even if I bash teh so called mighty Yamaha KB....Please Ian read your brainwashed Yamaha posts from the past, nuff said.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-22-2008).]

Ian,

I use two M-Audio BX5a speakers connected directly to the keyboard outputs. I seldom play rooms requiring more sound then they can produce. I am toying with moving to the Bose L1 system - but I really think that might be overkill for my needs. I only play senior gigs anymore - usually 5-6 each week. I quit playing major gigs many years ago - did studio work, symphony work, a lot of big band gigs etc - played with the Glen Miller band when Jerry Grey had them at the Fairmont hotel in Dallas way back in the very late 60's. Just got tired of the constant hazzle and walked away from it all one new years eve - I actually was a drummer - lot of setup and breakdown time at the gigs.

Anyway, thanks for the reply - I will look on the other forum you mentioned and find the EQ info.

By the way, I doubt if Kingfrog or Donny are on target here - I would hardly call this keyboard a dud. But then, all this really depends on the type music being played doesn't it?

Hammer

Hammer just going by what Im told by many that bought one & then were disappointed.
Im sure some will be happy with it for certain personal needs...but this time around the T3 is less then the Bees Knees.
I hope you enjoy it big time & hope to meet you also at the jam in January also.

good luck.

I find it even more amusing to read your posts from the past Donny"Flavour of the Week"Pesce.

At least brand fanatics like Fran and I are consistent...you are consistently inconsistant.

You say it "like it is" only when it suits YOU, Donny, or it suits your situation.

In spite of my alleged "brainwashed Yamaha posts", I do "say it like it is" regarding other brands that I have played, and give credit where it is due.

But unlike you, I comment only on the ones I have actually played(with the exception of Wersi and Lointracs),not empty comments based on other people's opinions, including yours.

Play a Tyros3 and then comment...stop wasting everyone's time with your rhetoric.

Ian

[

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-22-2008).]

I've been watching this topic with great interest. I believe Scott Yee summed it up best you gotta demo the board. I know the hype of this board has got me itching to play it. I'm busy again this weekend and can't make the trip to Frankieve's store. Maybe the weekend after.

In the meantime,every night during the past week my routine has been sit and play the Korg, then move over to the Clav CVP 307 and play the same tunes. I'm doing this so I have a good frame of reference when I play the Tyros3, that is how much better is Tyros3? ( I expect significant improvement) But so far let me mention, that when I play the Korg it's so much more alive ( you know the old in your face drums argument). However, when I move to the Clav and play some of my favorite swing/jazz/big band, I just love the feel of the styles on the Yammie, it just feels more natural and better to play.

Here's where I believe that's going to help me make a decision. When I get to Frank's store, he should have the Pa2xPro as well. I will play both instruments thru my Bose Tunnel Port Headphones, if I don't hear a significant difference between what I hear on the CVP 307 and the Tyros3 then I most likely will not make the purchase. Naturally I will compare the Pa2xPro. I need to demo the board, that is the only way I'll get a true answer. Based on what I've read to date without playing the T3 and the mixed opinions here and other forums, I would not purchase the Tyros3. But then again I have not played it, in a week that could change. Now let's see which direction is the wind blowing today.....


[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 10-22-2008).]

I truly believe it is the styles much more than the instrument that makes us decide to like one arranger over another...

If the styles are great, who cares about much else...?

Thing is, just as all of us have different tastes in music, we all got different tastes in styles. Some of us like them full and busy, with little room for anything but a melody, some of us like them simpler, to allow us to comp and melody, some of us like them so all we have to do is sing over the top...

Some of us like hiphop, some like swing, some like bossa, others like country. All of them tend to be better at one style than another. Add this to how well each one suits the style of play we prefer, and it's no wonder none of us can agree about anything!

If all were equally great in the style department, there'd be a lot less hand-wringing..! Trouble is, often a manufacturers style philosophy isn't tied to the sounds that express it best, or one arranger's bossa's are great, but the styles are too busy, and so on and so forth...

There will never be one perfect arranger, because there are so many different, almost mutually exclusive needs. Until the day comes when you can tell your arranger 'Hey! Guitarist! Play a little less busy... And drummer! lay into it a bit more on the chorus... and change to a Gretsch kit for this one', we are all at the mercy of the manufacturers...

We talk so little about music, what we play, how we play, why we play, what we like, that it's no wonder we never agree about anything. Until you know what a plyer likes, musically, until you know how well he can play, it's next to impossible to figure out what he needs.

All we end up doing is telling them what works for us (but seldom WHY), and assuming it SHOULD work for them... Guess again!

There will never be one perfect arranger, because there are so many different, almost mutually exclusive needs. Until the day comes when you can tell your arranger 'Hey! Guitarist! Play a little less busy... And drummer! lay into it a bit more on the chorus... and change to a Gretsch kit for this one', we are all at the mercy of the manufacturers...

Diki,

I disagree. We are not at the mercy of the manufacturers, but instead, we are limited by our own creativity, or the lack thereof. There are an enormous number of options right there at our fingertips, but very few people are willing to take the time to explore them. You can beef up, tone down or turn off any sound within any style. It just takes a little time and a bit of creativity. Those not willing to invest both in any brand of keyboard will not reap the benefits.

Cheers,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 10-22-2008).]

My opinion:
You can play a great job on any of the top brand keyboards if you have the talent. Yes we do have preferences but the ability to make the keyboard work well and talent to play/perform is where the success lies.

Make a list your criteria based on your desires and needs and match them to your choice. To knock the other brands shows little understanding that you only have an opinion based on your list of criteria and nothing more. Change the criteria for choosing and your opinion has little value.

Not to insult anybody but I love thinking about buying a new keyboard and I read this forum every day – Why can’t we post information that will help the other readers. (like myself) -- If you list five bad features also list five of the good features giving us a full picture. If you can’t find any good features then your mind is closed and the opinion falls short of helping others.

None of this is reflected on the enjoyable fighting that goes on, that’s always good reading.

Again, In my humble opinion, John c.

Unless you are into style creation, bigtime, and are a whizz at guitar emulation, drum emulation, basically everything emulation ( ), there really isn't a whole lot you can do about a style that is too busy. You see, it's not about turning OFF the part, or turning it down...

Just as in real life, there are guitarist that PLAY busier or simpler, drummers that 'ghost' a lot and fill up the internal groove, while others keep it simple and empty. so different arrangers tend to go in one or other of these directions. Short of creating your own style (and I'm sorry, but everyone TALKS a good game - or at least some do - but few if ANY members here are prolific, high quality style creators) if you can't find the perfect style, you are boned...

Modern arrangers are PACKED with potential, but so few have either the skill, the time or the inclination to utilize it all. Let us be honest. How many amongst us uses all self-created styles? I'm not talking about a minor edit of an existing one. Who makes their own styles from scratch?

Damn few, I'd say. Those that do, I want to hear your stuff!

Diki & in the same thought ....why does anyone need all these fluffy Tyros styles when as many say strip out most parts and just play Lh bass & drums with a RH.....
is it because people are letting the arranger styles do most of the work?
I dont think anyone in the audience believes it aint automated canned?

Scott:

Thanks for that extensive review of the T3. As a songwriter who sings his own demos but never performs or tours, I got the idea that this machine would be a real upgrade/replacement for my 2000. I can appreciate how a mile-a-minute performer like you or Don Mason would not need all the tweaks available but they would be a Godsend to a songwriter.

I spend about as much time "setting up" the board before recording as I do in the actual demo vocal. The 2000 was a great machine for it's time but I'd really like to get my hands on a T3 for a week or two just to kick the tires and experiment with some of the "voices." (Why in the name of Heaven didn't they call them instruments?)

Regardless, thanks for taking the time to explain your opinion of this new board. If anyone is interested in hearing what can still come out of an old 2000, feel free to visit my page. Here's the link:
http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice

Hi Dave, how have you been? Great to see your reply. I hope you have the opportunity to checkout the T3 as I think it has a lot to offer you as a song composer arranger. - Scott

Hey Dave ....really enjoyed listening to your song....

good luck to you