Scott, the Tyros2 Piano has too much resonance..even when played softly..the resonance is wide open...Listen again to Diki's link..with an open mind...Listen to the Roland E80 "classic piano" or the Fantom X "Ultimate"...and the Tyros 2 "warm grand"......

Warmth belongs to Roland...

I love the brightness of the Yamaha piano as it cuts so well through the mix and works very well with the accompaniment.

Piano sound is very subjective...some like the perceived warmth of Roland, and most of us prefer Yamaha's stronger presence.

If you want to soften the Yamaha Live! Grand sound, for jazz or pop ballads, just go to MIXING CONSOLE...Tab over to FILTER and turn down the BRIGHTNESS to around 52...store in a registration or your OTS...works for me.

Ian

I agree Fran. I've always thought Yammie's pianos were too bright..., and the reso really needed adjustment. I think Yamaha does that so that the piano can sit in the mix.., but it really hurts it IMO for solo play. They can be tweeked to sound nice, but the reso has to come down for sure.

I like to add..even Ian's Yamaha P85 has a better piano than the Tyros2...Listen to them and compare....TOOOO much resonance is the culprit..

Yamaha has always modeled their piano sounds on their acoustic pianos, and the list of Yamaha piano artists/endorsers is legendary.

Roland models it's pianos on other brands, probably Steinway, and some Yamaha (CP70) as Roland does not make acoustic pianos....mmmmm?

Some like the Yamaha sound, some like the Steinway(or whatever Roland samples).

Choice is good.

I played the E60 and found it was lacking harmonics in the middle octave... a tad disappointing....and the action was very poor for a 76'er...should have used the G70's keybed.

The P85 piano is nice...I bought it for the action, not the sound (which is pretty decent)...it's an inexpensive unit, but it has a weighted graded hammer keybed that is excellent.

Yamaha does hammer actions real well, because of their long experience (over 100 years) with acoustic pianos.

Regarding the T2 piano...you hear resonance...I hear presence...I like presence.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-15-2008).]

I have played many Yamaha acoustic pianos, C3's etc, and not ONE of them sounded remotely as bright and brittle at medium and low velocities as does the arranger sampled pianos... Just because you can make a great piano doesn't mean you can SAMPLE a great piano...

To be honest, in a studio situation, I prefer Yamaha to most others for a REAL piano, but if using samples, sorry, but thanks and no thanks!

I disagree with trying to filter warmth into a bright sample. It is NOT the same as using a sample that is already warm... As I've said, it is easier to brighten a full piano sound, than to try and create natural warmth from a sample that doesn't have it. If all the lows are pulled out DURING the sampling process, there are none in the sample to emphasize with EQ. All you are doing is dulling down a bright sound. That is NOT the same as using a warm sound in the first place...

Be that as it may, though, I simply refer everyone to P.Creek. Make up your own minds. If you like that 'tack hammer' sound, go for it. But IMO, it doesn't sound like a REAL piano. Great in a mix, BAD at solo piano. I need something great at BOTH...

True enough, Diki, I prefer a Yamaha grand over mostly any other piano, although a friend of mine has a great old Steinway that's been voiced very nicely.

Certainly rolling of the brightness in the filter and leaving the harmonic content as it is, works very well for me, and it's me I have to please...it just takes a bit of the hardness/brightness off, but I still use the piano sound primarily as it is for most situations...as you say, it sits well in the mix, and when you play an arranger, at least with full auto-accompaniment, that's what it is supposed to do.

Ian

I guess my problem Ian is that, because the G70 has 76 keys (and because I am a cheap SOB ) I use my keyboard for FAR more than 'just an arranger'.

If I wanted one of those, and chose to play strictly in arranger mode all the time, and played primarily background, I'd have an S900 right now, and be drooling over the T3 But I play primarily as a WS, with SOME arranger stuff (but still primarily just drums and I do the LH bass thing), or in live bands. As such, I HAVE to have close to a full piano range available as a basic minimum. And that piano has to stand up to being played solo, naked and exposed.

I guess you could say I use the G70 as a WS with arranger features, rather than the other way around

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!

Not the cheap SOB part..

Drums, left hand "thingy"..part..



[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 10-15-2008).]

I wouldn't say that's a problem my friend...I'd say you were careful about your personal finances.

I think 61 note arrangers are equipped thusly so there is no confusion that it's masquerading as a digital piano....it's just your basic arranger....gotta love the simplicity.

Workstation...mmmmm....comprised of two words...eeeeech!...first it has the word "work" in it....disssssgusting!

Then it has the word "station", which brings to mind a place where buses or trains gather....kinda stuck in one place...you know...imobile...not exactly inspiring...especially when attached to that other word....wor...wo...wor...sheesh...I can't even say it without getting tired.

I think you're on the right track with the G70...kinda does everything YOU need....sort of a Swiss army knife, or a multi bladed screwdriver.

The S900 does the same for me...arranger...61 keys...fun...makes me money...portable...sounds like a combo...or an orchestra....verrrry nice....cheap too, ideal for us frugally minded...or financially aware players.

I wouldn't want to be playing a piano naked and exposed...we'll leave that to Uncle Fran.

Just kiddin'.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-15-2008).]