With all the swapping out keyboards (everyone)....I was thinking if only Roland changed up their marketing design...

If Roland took the arranger (portable) units from the CK division (Home piano stores)..and put together a nice promotion for the MI stores (Musical instrument)..I believe you could see a big change in popularity of Roland arrangers...

Any store you go into..you will find Korg PA800 and PA500..also Yamaha lines..also Casio lines too...If Roland marketed the existing E-50/60 keyboards as the competition does...more customers would get their hands on a great keyboard, that in the E-60 has a great keyfeel, range and great edit tools..that simply out shines the 61 key models previously mentioned..

With very little effort .Roland could take a large share of this market..They just have to make the right decision to move them in the MI division..

The truth be told ..The CK stores are not interested in selling arrangers...They make a much more solid mark up on the pianos..and they do not need to be up on technology that is important to sell arrangers...

Changing the market division is the starting point...Roland needs to make training available to sales personnel...if refused..find dealers that will know the products..


In the past history..look how hard it was/is to demo a G70, E-80, E60....Roland needs exposure..they already have the product...

It is truly amazing that no one in the organization sees this. At the very least, open it up to both divisions for experimentation.

Competition breeds success. It stands to reason that Roland arrangers would be where their competition is.

There are a few CK dealers I know that have savvy arranger salesmen, but they devote their time selling high ticket items and very few arrangers.

I agree with you guys a hundred percent. I didn't even know about arrangers other than the little Casios until the mid 90's. And then I learned about them at a worship leader's workshop. They had the G 800 there as an alternative to a praise band. When I got back home I went to my Roland dealer and asked him to order me one. He had never heard of it and asked me if I was sure I wanted it. Same thing with the G 1000. I saw one at Mars Music and bought it on sight. The sales people weren't sure what it was, but I knew what it was and I took it home with me right there. And the only place I've ever seen a G 70 was at Chuck Levin's Music in DC at a demo that AJ from Ketron was giving. Roland products are awesome. I still use the G 1000 at church and in my studio.

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

Currently Roland has no true powerfull arranger to market...

I think we might be in for a surprise soon tough....positive or negative. Either they'll announce the Totl arranger, or they'll announce their retreat from the arranger market.

Guys Guys..... Working in a music store married to a 30 year professional keyboard player who has played for many major shows and does hundreds of single dates a year and myself having performed with national acts fronting many bands. I have never seen on single arranger nor have when asked has any one I have worked with even considered using an arranger keyboard live. There are all pro player who derive their sole income from performance. Not week end warriors or retires. These are the bread and butter buyers of product.

My wife feels that she is being hired as a Keyboard player and as such would never show up with anything less than 88 key weighted board, either the RD700 or even a Casio Previa 320 for beach gigs to go along with here Bose system and Guitar. I speak to pro players every day in the MI store I work in a beach town that employs many many singles, duos, and some bands most of the year. NO ONE uses an arranger on the job or would consider them. But they all like them and understand their benefit, if only for songwriting and recording.

Arranges are HOME keyboards for the most part. (and studio keyboards for people like us) We use ours exclusively at home to create tracks which we then may use on the gig. We use floor based TC Helicon harmonizers with a guitar and a keyboard,rather than the onboard harmonizers which don't compare whether the Yamaha or the Korg.

Yamaha (and I suspect Roland and Korg) is well aware in the US musicians do not consider Arranger keyboards as PERFORMANCE instruments, with the exception of a few who may play small backyard parties , nursing homes and maybe the MOOSE CLUB on week ends.

I believe the Europeans are more comfortable with using arranger professionally . Its a cultural thing. I would not think of taking my T3 out.I would rather use it to arrange home grown songs and create some tracks for live performance.

Te major makers are aware of their markets. Those few who do buy arrangers are in the minority. Far more Motifs, M3,s and Fantoms are sold than T3's and PA2xs for live use and in general especially as the lines are combing blurred with the mega arpeggiators on those boards

Im not surprised Pre MI stores like Guitar Center do not stock arrangers and MI stores like ours who carry $4000+ PRS, Fender,Ibanez, Taylor Guitars etc, as well as real Grand Pianos and DJ gear and PAs carry nothing but arranger keyboards and one lone Mini Motif....

The bottom line is we ARE a huge full line MI store and may sell one Tyros a year a truckload of Claviovas. IN A WORKING MUSICIAN"S MARKET!!!!Its the market.

IF Arrangers were a huge market the Wersis and Ketrons would certainly have a much higher presence in the US.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-13-2008).]

WOW!!! Are yo going to get an ear full..

Our area must be a little different than your area...There are many playing arrangers "professionally" here..

I am talking about top players..performing weddings , parties, clubs..as well as nursing homes...

I don't see the difference between ..making your arrangement at home, and playing it on the job as an MP3 or midi file...Just learn to play it live...same results..

The beauty of a good arranger (76 keys)...is the ability to play just left hand bass with right hand piano and another accent color with a pedal...all using great drum patterns with fills....It don't get better..

The only "Pros" that don't use an arranger are the ones that just aren't aware what they can do....

I totally disagree with your opinion on this subject....

I would consider this nonsense..

Uhhh, Bachus...., ever hear of the Roland G-70 or the E-80? Care to explain how these models are "no true powerful arranger"?

Fran, you know I have been saying exactly the same thing for over three years since they moved the G-series from MI stores to the CK dealerships. The demise of the line since then proves us right... Strangely enough, I talked to a Roland rep just about the time this all went down, and he told me that the reason for it was that the marketing divisions were offered either the new V-Accordions OR the arranger lines, but they couldn't have both. The MI guys wanted the V-Accordions, so off to the gulag of the CK dealers went the arranger line!

Whether this was bullsh*t or not, I don't know, but it has a ring to it... So, firstly, I doubt that gross sales of the V-Accordions has even come CLOSE to the gross on the arranger line (at least when it WAS marketed well), so a bad decision for MI, and the CK dealers' neglect and indifference has rapidly pulled Roland down. Add to that the problems with the initial G70 OS, slowly and incompletely fixed (I think that the MI dealers were FAR more proactive in insisting that operational defects be corrected than the CK's, who rarely even KNEW of any problems - got to PLAY 'em to know what's wrong ), and you have a recipe for disaster.

What is saddest is this is, and has always been, a snap for Roland to fix. But no-one has the cojones to admit the mistake and correct it. It may well, now, be too late. The GW-8 IS an arranger, but lacks a few essential operational things, IS marketed to the MI division, and may cloud the issue so much that the TRUE arrangers simply get dropped. Sad times are ahead, amply displayed by Roland's dropping a large percentage of their Italian workforce (who make the E and G series)...