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#242613 - 09/15/08 01:22 PM What is Yamaha thinking?
ytlevine Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 131
Quick question which troubles me:
Why can't Yamaha takes what people complain about most (now, it seems like the drums) and work on that in the next model?
If they would only change the drums in the T3, a lot of people would go for it. I understand that they need to sell the T4, and don't change all they can(or anything close to it), but at least the top thing that the users are requesting...
Or do they not listen at all to their users??

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#242614 - 09/15/08 01:32 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
Your guess is as good as any of ours... Some here will say they're pleased with them... Some will claim they're just as good as the Motif line (but some of us Motif owners strongly disagree with that).

This is Yamaha's top arranger... I don't understand why Tyros owners (who obviously have shown their support for the line simply by the price buyers are paying for them)., but owners don't seem to get the same level of treatment as the pro synth line. This is Yamaha's Pro Arranger.., yet it's marketed as a HOME KEYBOARD.

I have a VERY hard time accepting that it's just a select few here who feel the Tyros line should have better quality drum kits. So much freaking work goes into SA, Mega, Sweet, Cool, and Live voices.., but Yamaha don't seem to give a damn about one of the MAJOR FOUNDATIONS of a style and that's the drums. Users have been complaining about the drums since the first Tyros.. Here we are now with the 3rd generation Tyros.., yet Ty owners STILL don't get the same quality drum kits found on other top end Yamaha keyboards.
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#242615 - 09/15/08 01:33 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15630
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Bottom line is that the members here represent a very small portion of their sales. Most people are happy with the drums and/or ignorant of alternatives.
DonM
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DonM

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#242616 - 09/15/08 01:41 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
IMHO... Yamaha has politics going on big time on PRO division and Home division... Simple as that. The PRO division will not allow the Home division to have 'certain' things that will compete with them.

76 or 88 keys!
FULL MIDI implementation!
XS quality Drums!
PRO Keybed
PRO build (metal)
etc.

Just an opinion...that makes sense AND is logical as to what we see going on.

Lee
_________________________
Lee S.

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#242617 - 09/15/08 01:47 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39576
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:
Bottom line is that the members here represent a very small portion of their sales. DonM


Yamaha sells so many keyboards worldwide you have no idea....people are very very happy with their sound & products or they would not be #1 is sales. Why should they change anything and tamper with success?
Just not going to happen, they are not stupid & very well know what they are doing.

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#242618 - 09/15/08 02:44 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
Well if that's the case Donny.., then why is there a Tyros 3 If the drums were fine before..., and the users here represent a small number..., then why did Yamaha to some extent feel the need to (somewhat) impove the kits on the Tyros 3...? "Success" is also "listening to the needs of your customers".

However, as another member noted.. It is probably most likely inter-departmental politics.
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#242619 - 09/15/08 02:47 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39576
Loc: NJ
Squeak.....
The Tyros line Sales figures talk VOLUMES !! .....can't argue with that.
Worldwide it trumps any arranger on the market for the last few years. People are HAPPY with TYROS plain & simple If you own a tyros & are unhappy with the drums there are many DRUM alternatives on the market to combine with your music via Software & Hardware.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-15-2008).]

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#242620 - 09/15/08 03:23 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Actually Korg sells more arrangers WORLDWIDE that Yamaha...not that that matters to me.

Don't know about boards in general.

Lee
_________________________
Lee S.

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#242621 - 09/15/08 03:42 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 1897
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Even though the drums might not be what you like, Yamaha HAS added new drum sets to every model.
With the T2 they added 2 new Power kits, which are quite an improvement over their Live kits. With the T3 they added a new acustic kit, a new Rock kit and several dance kits.
It might not be what you like, but never the less they added/changed quite a few kits, which are quite a step up from their previous version.
What I noticed lately is that the guys that complain the most would never buy a T3 anyways, with or without 76 keys.
How many of you owned a 9000Pro?
There is always something wrong with a keyboard....
It's quite simple: you don't like it, don't buy it.
I always enjoyed what I had and was able to get the most out of it.
Let's face it, most of you have been around for a while and played on what is now considered crap.
The technology IS amazing, whether you play Korg, Roland, Yamaha or whatever.
Most of the audiences are blown away by the sound that these things can produce. Of course in the right hands.
I hope you guys learn to appreciate what you have and just have some fun playing it.
Peace
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Compact, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#242622 - 09/15/08 03:44 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 862
Loc: New York
I agree with Donny 100%. The s900 was the first yamaha I've ever owned and I have no problems with the drums (imo). I think the keyboard sounds great. The people here on synthzone that complain about Yamaha is less then 1% of their sales. Yamaha sold probably tens of thousands of the tyros and people will buy the t3. There are other choices out there, ketron, korg & roland. If you don't like the drums, buy a roland, if you don't like the vocal harm. buy a midi tc harm. If you want to send a message to yamaha don't purchase them! With every new keyboard there are improvements from the previous model. Thats the case with every company. When people actually get this puppy in there hands, that will be the real test.
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Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#242623 - 09/15/08 04:01 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Personally, I've never had a problem with Yamaha's drums, and neither has my audiences. And, I agree, with every new model, and I've owned lots of them, there have been some incredible improvements. The only exception was the PSR-2000 to PSR-2100, which was not much of an upgrade.

If you don't like what you hear coming from the speakers or audio outputs of Yamaha's keyboards, send them a message. DON'T BUY ONE! However, if you do like what you hear, send them a message as well by purchasing their latest and greatest models.

It's margaretta time

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
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PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#242624 - 09/15/08 04:10 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
casiobot Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 132
Not to hijack this thread but can I ask you a question squeak?

Have you ever had any experience with the Yamaha MO 6?

Is 64 poly good enough for this board? How many tracks can you record before the 64 poly starts showing its weaknesses,if any?

Thanks!

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#242625 - 09/15/08 04:17 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 862
Loc: New York
Correct Gary, I'll bet some of the people here who complain about yamaha never has any intentions of buying one.
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Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#242626 - 09/15/08 04:21 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39576
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by leeboy:
Actually Korg sells more arrangers WORLDWIDE that Yamaha...not that that matters to me.

Don't know about boards in general.

Lee


where did you get those sales figures?

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#242627 - 09/15/08 04:25 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39576
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Eric, B:
Even though the drums might not be what you like, Yamaha HAS added new drum sets to every model.
With the T2 they added 2 new Power kits, which are quite an improvement over their Live kits. With the T3 they added a new acustic kit, a new Rock kit and several dance kits.
It might not be what you like, but never the less they added/changed quite a few kits, which are quite a step up from their previous version.
What I noticed lately is that the guys that complain the most would never buy a T3 anyways, with or without 76 keys.
How many of you owned a 9000Pro?
There is always something wrong with a keyboard....
It's quite simple: you don't like it, don't buy it.
I always enjoyed what I had and was able to get the most out of it.
Let's face it, most of you have been around for a while and played on what is now considered crap.
The technology IS amazing, whether you play Korg, Roland, Yamaha or whatever.
Most of the audiences are blown away by the sound that these things can produce. Of course in the right hands.
I hope you guys learn to appreciate what you have and just have some fun playing it.
Peace
Eric


AMEN!!!! and more emphasis & effort should be on everyday becoming a better player not.....because without that, all this High tech mumbo jumbo talk, better drums etc etc, or whatever means absolutely squat!

BTW, Great post!!

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#242628 - 09/15/08 04:26 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39576
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by mc:
If you want to send a message to yamaha don't purchase them!


Excactly ....& until that ever happens Yamaha will glide all the way to the bank.

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#242629 - 09/15/08 04:28 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8968
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
So where do we find these Yamaha #1 selling stats...or do we just take it for granted ..because they are popular at SZ....?

If you were to take a head count of people playing arrangers in my area...Yamaha isn't even close to number one...

Seriously, just off the top of my head in the Solo Musicians network...Only Donny is using a Yamaha arranger...I can name at least 5 Roland arranger users, 3 Korg arranger users, and 2 Ketron arranger users...

Maybe this sheds some more light are what we think to be true...number wise..

BTW: none are home players..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 09-15-2008).]
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#242630 - 09/15/08 04:41 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 862
Loc: New York
I have no knowledge on actual sales figures but you walk in to every Samash or GC there yamaha's for all beginners to pros, I we can only guess. Your right about whos gigging with what. In the NY/NJ portuguese community everyone with the exception of a few musicians play ketrons. From the MS50, x1, xd9, sd1 and the fellow I sold the Sd5 too. They may have a roland for midi file playback, korg or a yamaha for right hand voices, but main keyboard is a ketron hands down......

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 09-15-2008).]
_________________________
Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#242631 - 09/15/08 06:10 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Mark Twain (paraphrasing Disraeli)

Anyone who quotes ANY kind of figure about arranger sales on this forum is probably giving you all three!

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#242632 - 09/15/08 06:41 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Fran,

Does the above post mean there is only 10 guys in Jersey giggin? Hmmmmm! In my neighborhood, and down south in nearby Virginia, nearly everyone uses Yamaha, mainly PSR-3000, Tyros and Tyros2. Some guys still using Korgs, I only know of one Ketron user, no Roland users and a handful of assorted oldies that are no longer in business. Guess it all depends on which neighborhood you live in.

As for the statistics, there was a post a couple years ago that revealed how many keyboards manufacturers sold. If I recall, Yamaha was at the top in most countries, but there were a few European nations where Korg was at the top of the list. I don't believe Roland was among the top 5, or maybe in the top 10. Of course, all of this don't amount to a hill of beans. In the technological world of arranger keyboards, nearly all of the top manufacturers have produced incredible machines that have far more features than most owners are capable of utilizing. As DNJ has said many, many times, learn to play the keyboard you currently own--you'll be amazed what it will do.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#242633 - 09/15/08 06:53 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Gary...

Your link on the signature line (and your profile) is not currently working. Everything OK?

Do you have a new link?

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#242634 - 09/15/08 06:57 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
So where do we find these Yamaha #1 selling stats...


Probably the same place Lee got his Korg stats...

I do know that Yamaha arrangers rule in my region.

My source?

The dealers.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-15-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242635 - 09/15/08 07:16 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
And dealers ALWAYS tell the truth...! And are founts of knowledge and unbiased opinion

Yamaha sell a LOT of arrangers, because they have a LOT of low end models. IMO, they only make two quality arrangers. The S900 and the T2/3.

Subtract all the sales of those junk ones, and possibly the field gets a little leveler, IMO (but not even!).

Anyway, as has been said, popularity is no indicator of quality. Look at the music charts, if you want proof there! Anyone want to try and persuade me that the Pussycat Dolls or Fergie are the best singers out there?

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#242636 - 09/15/08 07:17 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8968
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Ian, your source is the boonedocks..area.

Gary that is just from the Organization, Dave, Donny and I belong....and I am from Pa..

BTW: I remember 2 more Roland arranger players and another Korg player in our group..

Also Jerry T..he has a Ketron..and a Korg

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 09-15-2008).]
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www.francarango.com



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#242637 - 09/15/08 07:30 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Ian, your source is the boonedocks..area.



Fran, stop trying to act smart...it doesn't look good on you.

Still, facts are facts, and the dealers say Yamaha rules here in the boondocks.

Down in the boondocks...down in the boondocks...mmmm...isn't that a song?

Billy Joe Royal, I believe....written by Joe South...a great tune, and a great place to live.

Keep practising, Sunshine, you're doing great.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242638 - 09/15/08 07:35 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8968
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Fran, stop trying to act smart...it doesn't look good on you.

Still, facts are facts, and the dealers say Yamaha rules here in the boondocks.

Down in the boondocks...down in the boondocks...mmmm...isn't that a song?

Billy Joe Royal, I believe....written by Joe South...a great tune, and a great place to live.

Keep practising, Sunshine, you're doing great.

Speaking of sunshine..I guess you are all healed up..

Ian

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www.francarango.com



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#242639 - 09/15/08 07:38 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
And dealers ALWAYS tell the truth...!


Of course they do Diki...what have they to gain by making false statements?

I trust my dealers as much as I can trust you.

And, I do agree...a lot of Yamaha's sales are low-end arrangers, but remember, yesterday's low-end arranger player, is tomorrow's Tyros/S900 buyer.

Not everyone starts out on the high-end stuff.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242640 - 09/15/08 07:38 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8968
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Stop bugging me..I am trying to watch the game!!!!!!!!!!!!..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#242641 - 09/15/08 07:45 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Stop bugging me..I am trying to watch the game!!!!!!!!!!!!..


You have a TV?

Betcha it's got a remote and everything.

I just hope the nurses don't catch you.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242642 - 09/15/08 07:52 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Of course they do Diki...what have they to gain by making false statements?

I trust my dealers as much as I can trust you.

And, I do agree...a lot of Yamaha's sales are low-end arrangers, but remember, yesterday's low-end arranger player, is tomorrow's Tyros/S900 buyer.

Not everyone starts out on the high-end stuff.

Ian



Sorry, but yesterday's low end player (unless a retiree) is tomorrow's WS player.

Until they start to make them so they are not an embarrassment for younger players to drag out in front of their friends, they are not the upward path we wish they would be.

And, I guess the problem with dealers is they are local. No-one wants to accept the dealer's local figures extrapolated to worldwide figures, because each area is quite unique. I have worked retail before, and no-one EVER gave us a brand by brand national or worldwide sales figure, broken down by model... Best I ever saw were total sales, as pumped up to the stockholders meeting, not a per model breakdown. And that was just a couple of brands.

And lying is the mantra of the industry.

The developers lie to the marketing division (about how long development will take). The marketing division lies to the dealers (about how soon the product will be available), and the dealers lie to their customers (about how much better of a player they will be if they buy BrandX's new arranger)... And then their customers come here and lie (about how fantastic only THEIR arranger is)

It's how capitalism survives! Were the truth to ever get out, the system would collapse

You can trust me about this I wouldn't lie to YOU

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-15-2008).]

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#242643 - 09/15/08 08:11 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Sorry, but yesterday's low end player (unless a retiree) is tomorrow's WS player.

You can trust me about this I wouldn't lie to YOU



Most, if not all, low-end arranger buyers aspire to a more elaborate arranger, not a WS.

Trust me...I know.

Even my lies are true.

Ian

BTW...Shhhhhhhh! Fran's watching TV.





[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-15-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242644 - 09/15/08 08:30 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
Quote:
As DNJ has said many, many times, learn to play the keyboard you currently own--you'll be amazed what it will do.


That goes without saying. It also doesn't hurt if the keyboard you play actually sounds good while you play it.

>> The better the keyboard sounds i.e. a keyboard with authentic or nearly authentic sound reproduction and realism, the better your audience will enjoy the show in my opinion. Of course, it also depends to a great degree on the proficiency of your keyboard playing skills as well. >> But we all knew that already, right Donny? It goes without saying right Donny? We don't need you to keep repeating it okay Donny? It goes without saying... So stop saying it okay Donny? We get the picture already. lol.. Forgive me for having some fun at your expense. I'm not laughing at you though, I'm laughing with you. You are laughing right Donny?

Best,
Mike
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Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#242645 - 09/15/08 10:54 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Its pretty easy to see what keyboards, motorcycles, what have you are sold the most. Google their forums. Look at number of registrants, posts....... The more forums the more users.

Watch post counts within combo arranger forums on particular keyboards.there's another clue. Support,
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Yamaha Motif XS8
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Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
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#242646 - 09/15/08 11:42 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Quote:
Originally posted by leeboy:
Actually Korg sells more arrangers WORLDWIDE that Yamaha...not that that matters to me.

Don't know about boards in general.

Lee


It is amazing that this statement gets challenged )but is most likely the case) but people seem to want to accept that Yamaha sells the most arrangers.

Between Korg, Roland and Yamaha, we can probably agree that Yamaha has the most brand exposure for arrangers second to Casio.
Because Yamaha has a low-end arranger $100 - $400 in mainstream stores, and also arrangers that are in music stores, they do have a good showing.
That is at least in the U.S.

And remember, other than price and willingness to pay, there is no substantial difference between a TOTL Yamaha arranger customer and a entry level Yamaha arranger customer.
They both want the same thing, --- a glorified Karaoke machine—that is if you believe the users of Yamaha arrangers are well represented here on SZ.


Korg, Ketron and in some respects Roland, have a different type of arranger market – the people who want to do something with their arranger---. And, they also get the best value for their money )although that is very subjective).

But to depend on The dealers
To tell you which arranger is popular among consumers, is risky. Any dealer who wants to stay in business wants to sell the keyboard that brings them the most profit. If Roland has a lot of restrictions on dealers for getting and selling arrangers, but Yamaha is more generous, to the dealer, I wonder who the dealer is going to more likely promote?
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TTG

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#242647 - 09/16/08 03:26 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:
And remember, other than price and willingness to pay, there is no substantial difference between a TOTL Yamaha arranger customer and a entry level Yamaha arranger customer.
They both want the same thing, --- a glorified Karaoke machine.


Have we really fallen so far that this ration of useless rhetoric could be mistaken for real knowledge on the subject?

Naaaah...of course we haven't...we might have been born at night...but not last night.


Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242648 - 09/16/08 03:48 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Have we really fallen so far that this ration of useless rhetoric could be mistaken for real knowledge on the subject?

Naaaah...of course we haven't...we might have been born at night...but not last night.


Ian

It is just the facts as evidenced here on SZ.
Have you not been paying attention?
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TTG

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#242649 - 09/16/08 03:57 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
[b] Have we really fallen so far that this ration of useless rhetoric could be mistaken for real knowledge on the subject?

Naaaah...of course we haven't...we might have been born at night...but not last night.


Ian

It is just the facts as evidenced here on SZ.
Have you not been paying attention?

[/B]


Yes I have been paying attention, but you obviously have not.

Yamaha arrangers are for "players"...people who want to actually play the instrument...that's why they don't have MP3 players installed in them.

Who needs an I-Pod with keys...certainly not real players?

I bet your keyboard doesn't have an MP3 player...or does it?

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242650 - 09/16/08 04:37 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Yes I have been paying attention, but you obviously have not.

Yamaha arrangers are for "players"...people who want to actually play the instrument...that's why they don't have MP3 players installed in them.

Who needs an I-Pod with keys...certainly not real players?

I bet your keyboard doesn't have an MP3 player...or does it?

Ian



Well if your understanding as to an MP3 player on an arranger is the same as having an I-Pod then ....... again, you have not been paying attention.
To use your logic, Who needs a MIDI file player on a Yamaha arranger .... they just want to play.
Who needs lots of styles on an arranger?
Arrangers were supposed to help people from having to have song specific midi files. But it seems as if Yamaha is taking us steps bak with their TOTL arrangers.

And yes my keyboard has the ability to play MP3s ... the first arranger to do so.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 09-16-2008).]
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#242651 - 09/16/08 04:58 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:
And yes my keyboard has the ability to play MP3s


Why am I not surprised?

Well, do what you want, and play what you want...I like using a "player's" instrument...that's why I choose Yamaha.

Why would I want an MP3 player in an instrument I'm supposed to be playing?

Will they be putting them in violins and saxophones next?

I already own an MP3 player...probably cost less than yours.

I play an instrument(an arranger) on my gigs, not MP3 recordings...I'm not a DJ and don't intend to be.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242652 - 09/16/08 05:05 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
Casiobot...,
I didn't own the MO6..., BUT I did own the MO8. To tell you the truth 64 notes on the MO series is a really dogger. It doesn't take long to max the poly when sequencing. Here's the problem..., the MO6/8 have Motif ES sound engines. The ES's were designed to run on 128 note poly. The MO's run half that. So once you start to sequence on the MO's you'll really notice the poly limit.

With any synth the use of the arps..., and controllers such as the sustain pedal can be huge poly eaters. Take a synth whos sound engine is essentially the Motif ES.., cut that poly in half, use the arps and sustain in sequencing and BAM... POLY BLOWOUT.

If you're looking at the MO's primarily for PLAYING then the 64 notes isn't too bad.., but it will limit you in sequencing. For this reason alone I sold my MO8. I then later (after missing those ES sounds in my set-up) just purhcased a new Motif ES6 before the online retailers lost stock due to the XS's release.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#242653 - 09/16/08 06:52 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Yamaha arrangers are for "players"...people who want to actually play the instrument...that's why they don't have MP3 players installed in them.


LMAO! What a load of crap. An on-board MP3-player is extremely useful when you want to quickly master a new song without having to write it all down in sheetmusic. Some people can play like that, you know. Well I can, anyway.

Using the MP3-player, I play along with the original a few times, find the right chords etc etc. Great addition to my arranger.

By the way, what do you call a Tyros 3 with a built-in harddisc audio-recorder? What do you call it when it PLAYS BACK what you recorded so you can play along with your own music?

And why do Yamaha's have the capability of playing SMF's anyway? Since they are "built for players" (of the melody-line, along with automatic accompaniments... ) Don't make me laugh.

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM http://www.keyboardforum.nl

[This message has been edited by Burkels (edited 09-16-2008).]
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#242654 - 09/16/08 06:53 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
All I can tell you is the info on arranger sales worldwide I got was from a close friend that is well conneted to a high level executive at Korg Japan. I was told that the top execs. at any of the arranger companies know those stats...

Korg sells BOATLOADS of arrangers to middle east countries. And I mean boatloads. The USA is one of the smallest consumers of arrangers in the world.

Go to youtube and search for PA2XPRO/PA800 and you will see tons of people from Mid East doing demos....

Personally I don't care who sells the most...it's just a ego trip for some..I care about how I like the instrument and how it works for the kind of music I play...And that can change fom model to model, year to year.

Lee
_________________________
Lee S.

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#242655 - 09/16/08 07:07 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Burkels:
LMAO! What a load of crap. Don't make me laugh.



Nice to see you have a sense of humor under all that huff and puff.

I enjoy your posts too...they always give a me a good chuckle.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242656 - 09/16/08 07:18 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Nice to see you have a sense of humor under all that huff and puff.

I enjoy your posts too...they always give a me a good chuckle.

Ian



Any useful replies to what I wrote about the usefulness of an onboard MP3-player, or would that hurt your ego too much?
And what about the onboard recorder in the Tyros?
And what about the SMF-player in the Tyros?


------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM http://www.keyboardforum.nl

[This message has been edited by Burkels (edited 09-16-2008).]
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http://www.keyboardforum.nl
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#242657 - 09/16/08 07:23 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Burkels:
Any useful replies to what I wrote about the usefulness of an onboard MP3-player, or would that hurt your ego too much?


Ask me nice, and I'll think about it...or have your ever tried being polite?

It would be a refreshing change.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242658 - 09/16/08 07:32 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Ask me nice, and I'll think about it...or have your ever tried being polite?

It would be a refreshing change.

Ian





Answering you is waste of time, I should have known better. Nobody can ever accuse me of being impolite in this forum. Your idea of making "funny remarks" about "huff and puff" merely tells me that you are indeed as arrogant as they all say here.

No need to reply, not even that you "wasn't going to".

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
_________________________
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

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#242659 - 09/16/08 07:38 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Burkels:
Answering you is waste of time, I should have known better.


And you still haven't learned.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#242660 - 09/16/08 10:00 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
MOst professional published songwriters use ARRANGERS to arrange their songs. They hire producers and Arrangers who in turn bring their best musicians for that particular "style"

JAmes Taylor does not write all the parts for his songs

Neil Diamond does not write orchestrations for his songs

Many song writers use Arrangers. There are a few who can afford real people bringing real musicians. Then there are those of us who "hire" software arrangers withing hardware keyboards.

Thats what I use an Arranger for. As a performance instrument it's a toss up. We can record the tracks we want and play them back or we can take the keyboard and do the same thing making changes along the way.

Either way there is one or two people on a stage accompanying what may sound like 6 or 80 additional players. That part of the equation does not change. Whether on a CD or Keyboard.

As a songwriting toll the keyboard arrangers are priceless. As performance instruments a small step away from Karaoke.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
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#242661 - 09/16/08 06:08 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
rattley Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 766
Loc: Punta Gorda Florida USA
Good Golly!!!! All this entertainment...............and it's FREE!!!

I remember when Tyros3's specs were released there were quite a few people disappointed it wouldn't play mp3's. I never gave it much thought. It didn't seem like a feature I would ever use. But after reading Burkels post having Tyros3 play mp3's might be a useful feature. I often play mp3's on my computer, which is next to Tyros2, and do learn some songs that way. Having it all onboard would be nice. I really do learn things here! Thanks. -charley

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#242662 - 09/16/08 06:32 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Without loop, transposition and tempo adjustment features in any built in player, doing song learning on the keyboard's player is an exercise in futility.

What I don't understand is why everybody that has a decent arranger doesn't have a computer standing right in front of it at home... Firstly, just as a simple backup solution, and access to transfer web-found styles and songs (or MP3's ) directly into it. Then, of course, there are all the other benefits like access to audio manipulation programs (Amazing Slow-downer, etc.) that make learning songs a snap, use as a VSTi host for adding high quality sounds to your rig, use of DAW programs, to make producing your music from start to finish easier, use of loop production tools, to make producing more contemporary music a snap... The list goes on and on

A computer desk that the arranger sits on, monitor front and center, a pair of decent nearfields to either side, and a drawer underneath with the mouse and computer keyboard on is music making heaven! Something with this kind of form factor: http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/620495/Office-Depot-Brand-Computer-Cart-With/ makes for a pretty efficient workstation (mine is a different brand, and is modified to get the nearfields further out and well supported, but the type is the idea).

Now you don't NEED badly thought out arranger audio features!

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#242663 - 09/16/08 09:08 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Without loop, transposition and tempo adjustment features in any built in player, doing song learning on the keyboard's player is an exercise in futility.

What I don't understand is why everybody that has a decent arranger doesn't have a computer standing right in front of it at home... Firstly, just as a simple backup solution, and access to transfer web-found styles and songs (or MP3's ) directly into it. Then, of course, there are all the other benefits like access to audio manipulation programs (Amazing Slow-downer, etc.) that make learning songs a snap, use as a VSTi host for adding high quality sounds to your rig, use of DAW programs, to make producing your music from start to finish easier, use of loop production tools, to make producing more contemporary music a snap... The list goes on and on

A computer desk that the arranger sits on, monitor front and center, a pair of decent nearfields to either side, and a drawer underneath with the mouse and computer keyboard on is music making heaven! Something with this kind of form factor: http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/620495/Office-Depot-Brand-Computer-Cart-With/ makes for a pretty efficient workstation (mine is a different brand, and is modified to get the nearfields further out and well supported, but the type is the idea).

Now you don't NEED badly thought out arranger audio features!


That what we have. AN RD700 Roland for a MAster Conroller in front of two 19" LCD monitors which have near fields on the outside. The Arranger is on the left keyboard side and is only played when using organ/synth parts. Everything is hard wired to an M-Audio Ultra and a (Mackie 1604 for monitoring vocals with effects)

We use Sonar 6 and Sound Forge as our primary DAW software with Platinum Waves and some other interesting plug ins and soft synths. I was hoping the Korg would be the end all and use the Previa for the weighted keys. But it's a great DEEP toll with a learning curve I just was not willing to sink my teeth into. My bad, not the Keyboard.

I do like Yamaha's "polished" sound for CDS though saves a lot of time in mastering process allowing us to concentrate on the vocals. I an until now comparing the Korg with the T2. I believe the Tyros 3 will deliver far more and the distance between the S900 and T3 will widen by a mile.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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#242664 - 09/17/08 07:08 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
When I first read the technical data for the Tyros3 I seriously considered buying a pair of them. (Gotta' have backups!) The cost was not a determining factor one way or another. On the plus side, it has some really neat features, including the ability to connect an external monitor (same as the T2), which can then be used for displaying lyrics. Additionally, the lyrics can be embedded within registrations, thus making selection a matter of a single button push--two at most. That's one hell of an asset, especially for those of us who have age impaired eyesight. And, for some strange reason I cannot remember all of the words to every song that has been produced during the past half-century.

The ability to store huge numbers of style files, midi files and lyrics on the keyboard's HD also seemed the best way to go. Again, lots of information right at your fingertips and with just a couple button pushes anything can be instantly accessed.

The ability to interface the keyboard with the PC, plus being able to transfer information between both systems is also a big plus. This is all done via a standard USB 2.0 connection and supplied software.

The T3's built-in vocal processor is marginal at best for vocal harmony, but keep in mind that this is a little used feature on most keyboards. And, for less than $300 you can purchase TC Helicon's new Harmony-M, which in my opinion, does an outstanding job and takes up very little space.

Now for the downside--at least for me. The keyboard is a bit heavier than I am currently enjoying. Yep, I'm gettin' too darned old to lug a keyboard from job to job that feels like it is made of cast iron. (Sorry Fran.) But, even this would not have deterred me from buying a pair of T3s.

The big downer was that I would be soley relying on the T3 for everything, thereby eliminating the laptop from my setup. My laptop not only displays lyrics and plays MP3s and MIDI files, it's also my primary backup system. If the keyboard were to fail, and you were 50 miles from home with 300 people standing in front of you, the laptop can get you through the day and no one is the wiser. Sure, I could haul the laptop around in the van and hook it up if there was a keyboard failure, but that all takes time.

For now, I'll stick with what I've got. They're not TOTL keyboards--just mid range, but they do the job without headaches. I won't count the T3 out, though. I'll take the time to check it out at the local GC when it arrives in my neighborhood. Then, and only then, will I have sufficient information to consider upgrading.

Good Luck,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#242665 - 09/17/08 07:20 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39576
Loc: NJ
Dont worry ....Gary ....good idea to wait & see. Roland's new TOTL arranger will soon solve all your problems ...ask Fran

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#242666 - 09/17/08 08:19 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Kingfrog:
MOst professional published songwriters use ARRANGERS to arrange their songs. They hire producers and Arrangers who in turn bring their best musicians for that particular "style"


When you say most professional published songwriters use "Arrangers" you mean a human who arranges songs for instruments and orchestras, not an arranger keyboard right?

Of all the professional songwriters and musicians I know, I can count those that use an arranger keyboard to compose songs on less than two hands. Most pro's I know write songs typically on either a piano or guitar as their primary writing instrument. I myself prefer to write on piano or a synthesizer but will often use my arranger keyboard to flesh out a song after the basic concept is written. Once I have the song structure down then I typically bring in real musicians to play the parts such as guitar, sax, and drums.

I know that in Nashville there are songwriters who use arrangers to flesh out songs but afterwards they bring in world class studio musicians to track the songs after they are written. I've yet to meet a single professional published songwriter who has conceived, recorded, and released a song to radio, TV, or film that was done entirely on an arranger keyboard.

Arranger keyboards are a very, very small niche and while those here on Synthzone may utilize them daily, we are the exception and not the rule.



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 09-17-2008).]

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#242667 - 09/17/08 05:18 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
pianodano Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia
Quote:
Originally posted by leeboy:
Actually Korg sells more arrangers WORLDWIDE that Yamaha...not that that matters to me.

Don't know about boards in general.

Lee


I do know that I am still blown away by how good the drums sound on my PA-80. What a shame that Yamaha won't go for that sound. I bought the PA-80 and a original Tyros when they came out. Tyros 1 taught me that Tyros was really intended for the home user but sold as Flagship and for the pro. I still remember the first time I took Tyros to a daylight gig 4 or 5 years ago. Between the unviewable screen in daylight, Yamaha Tyros hardrive that failed and cartoon effect harmonizer, I sorta had my hands full. OH well, I will continue waiting. Maybe by Tyros iteration 10 they will build one that will meet my expectations.


[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 09-17-2008).]

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#242668 - 09/17/08 05:35 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
mr9000 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 318
"What is Yamaha thinking?"
--------------------------
I don't care what they are thinking,
T4 or whatever..'come on down'

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#242669 - 09/17/08 07:16 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Unless the T3 is a flop compared to the T2, don't expect any change in the T4

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#242670 - 09/18/08 12:21 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:
Once I have the song structure down then I typically bring in real musicians to play the parts such as guitar, sax, and drums.


Maybe you should consider changing brands of keyboards and save yourself the costs of hiring musicians :-))))

(Sorry, had to do that)
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http://www.keyboardforum.nl
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#242671 - 09/18/08 12:27 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Burkels:
Maybe you should consider changing brands of keyboards and save yourself the costs of hiring musicians :-))))

(Sorry, had to do that)



I already have a Wersi Abacus Duo Pro which sounds amazing but until samples can reproduce every nuance of an instrument, I'll still need to bring in the real players. For drums, bass, percussion, and some piano and string parts I can get away with using samples. I've yet to hear any guitar or sax sample sound so real I could forego hiring a guitarist or saxophonist. I'm sure that time will come, it just hasn't happened yet.

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#242672 - 09/18/08 07:45 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:

I already have a Wersi Abacus D....


Man... where´s your sense of humour
_________________________
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http://www.keyboardforum.nl
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#242673 - 09/18/08 10:01 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
mr9000 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Unless the T3 is a flop compared to the T2, don't expect any change in the T4


I am perfectly fine never purchasing a keyboard every again if it is merely a sneaky plot to dress up a whole new plastic housing sold as..a newly updated $4000
OS system.
Rather it is a B.S system.

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#242674 - 09/19/08 09:23 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:
When you say most professional published songwriters use "Arrangers" you mean a human who arranges songs for instruments and orchestras, not an arranger keyboard right?

Of all the professional songwriters and musicians I know, I can count those that use an arranger keyboard to compose songs on less than two hands. Most pro's I know write songs typically on either a piano or guitar as their primary writing instrument. I myself prefer to write on piano or a synthesizer but will often use my arranger keyboard to flesh out a song after the basic concept is written. Once I have the song structure down then I typically bring in real musicians to play the parts such as guitar, sax, and drums.

I know that in Nashville there are songwriters who use arrangers to flesh out songs but afterwards they bring in world class studio musicians to track the songs after they are written. I've yet to meet a single professional published songwriter who has conceived, recorded, and released a song to radio, TV, or film that was done entirely on an arranger keyboard.

Arranger keyboards are a very, very small niche and while those here on Synthzone may utilize them daily, we are the exception and not the rule.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 09-17-2008).]


I meant human Arrangers. The keyboard Arrangers are just virtual Human Arrangers

I have no issue using the Arranger for BG tracks on a CD. We sell CDS on site. The average Joe could care less and could not tell if real instruments were used. The Arrangers save a lot of Studio time and paying musicians. IF I were going to use real musicians I would buy a Fantom or Motif.

Use the on brand sequencer and arpeggiators and hire musicians. I believe its actually more acceptable to sell a CD with arranger tracks than to use an entire arrangement live. I believe most people will view that as Karaoke whereas the CD with the arranger parts would not be considered as singing to a KAraoke track.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

Top
#242675 - 11/13/08 12:40 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
mc,

you portuguese? living in NJ/NY?

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#242676 - 11/13/08 12:44 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 862
Loc: New York
Quote:
Originally posted by leezone:
mc,

you portuguese? living in NJ/NY?



Yes, are you portuguese also?
_________________________
Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#242677 - 11/13/08 01:29 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 3863
Loc: Norway
Topic: What is Yamaha thinking?

Simple: Profit, profit, profit, profit and then more sales to gain even more profit !!!!!

But, Yamaha are not alone thinking like that.
_________________________
Cheers & Happy Playing. smile
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#242678 - 11/13/08 05:59 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Yeah... Thank God no-one here uses arrangers for profit, profit, profit

We are all ARTISTS here, aren't we...?

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