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#242663 - 09/16/08 09:08 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Without loop, transposition and tempo adjustment features in any built in player, doing song learning on the keyboard's player is an exercise in futility.

What I don't understand is why everybody that has a decent arranger doesn't have a computer standing right in front of it at home... Firstly, just as a simple backup solution, and access to transfer web-found styles and songs (or MP3's ) directly into it. Then, of course, there are all the other benefits like access to audio manipulation programs (Amazing Slow-downer, etc.) that make learning songs a snap, use as a VSTi host for adding high quality sounds to your rig, use of DAW programs, to make producing your music from start to finish easier, use of loop production tools, to make producing more contemporary music a snap... The list goes on and on

A computer desk that the arranger sits on, monitor front and center, a pair of decent nearfields to either side, and a drawer underneath with the mouse and computer keyboard on is music making heaven! Something with this kind of form factor: http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/620495/Office-Depot-Brand-Computer-Cart-With/ makes for a pretty efficient workstation (mine is a different brand, and is modified to get the nearfields further out and well supported, but the type is the idea).

Now you don't NEED badly thought out arranger audio features!


That what we have. AN RD700 Roland for a MAster Conroller in front of two 19" LCD monitors which have near fields on the outside. The Arranger is on the left keyboard side and is only played when using organ/synth parts. Everything is hard wired to an M-Audio Ultra and a (Mackie 1604 for monitoring vocals with effects)

We use Sonar 6 and Sound Forge as our primary DAW software with Platinum Waves and some other interesting plug ins and soft synths. I was hoping the Korg would be the end all and use the Previa for the weighted keys. But it's a great DEEP toll with a learning curve I just was not willing to sink my teeth into. My bad, not the Keyboard.

I do like Yamaha's "polished" sound for CDS though saves a lot of time in mastering process allowing us to concentrate on the vocals. I an until now comparing the Korg with the T2. I believe the Tyros 3 will deliver far more and the distance between the S900 and T3 will widen by a mile.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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#242664 - 09/17/08 07:08 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
When I first read the technical data for the Tyros3 I seriously considered buying a pair of them. (Gotta' have backups!) The cost was not a determining factor one way or another. On the plus side, it has some really neat features, including the ability to connect an external monitor (same as the T2), which can then be used for displaying lyrics. Additionally, the lyrics can be embedded within registrations, thus making selection a matter of a single button push--two at most. That's one hell of an asset, especially for those of us who have age impaired eyesight. And, for some strange reason I cannot remember all of the words to every song that has been produced during the past half-century.

The ability to store huge numbers of style files, midi files and lyrics on the keyboard's HD also seemed the best way to go. Again, lots of information right at your fingertips and with just a couple button pushes anything can be instantly accessed.

The ability to interface the keyboard with the PC, plus being able to transfer information between both systems is also a big plus. This is all done via a standard USB 2.0 connection and supplied software.

The T3's built-in vocal processor is marginal at best for vocal harmony, but keep in mind that this is a little used feature on most keyboards. And, for less than $300 you can purchase TC Helicon's new Harmony-M, which in my opinion, does an outstanding job and takes up very little space.

Now for the downside--at least for me. The keyboard is a bit heavier than I am currently enjoying. Yep, I'm gettin' too darned old to lug a keyboard from job to job that feels like it is made of cast iron. (Sorry Fran.) But, even this would not have deterred me from buying a pair of T3s.

The big downer was that I would be soley relying on the T3 for everything, thereby eliminating the laptop from my setup. My laptop not only displays lyrics and plays MP3s and MIDI files, it's also my primary backup system. If the keyboard were to fail, and you were 50 miles from home with 300 people standing in front of you, the laptop can get you through the day and no one is the wiser. Sure, I could haul the laptop around in the van and hook it up if there was a keyboard failure, but that all takes time.

For now, I'll stick with what I've got. They're not TOTL keyboards--just mid range, but they do the job without headaches. I won't count the T3 out, though. I'll take the time to check it out at the local GC when it arrives in my neighborhood. Then, and only then, will I have sufficient information to consider upgrading.

Good Luck,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#242665 - 09/17/08 07:20 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39512
Loc: NJ
Dont worry ....Gary ....good idea to wait & see. Roland's new TOTL arranger will soon solve all your problems ...ask Fran

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#242666 - 09/17/08 08:19 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Kingfrog:
MOst professional published songwriters use ARRANGERS to arrange their songs. They hire producers and Arrangers who in turn bring their best musicians for that particular "style"


When you say most professional published songwriters use "Arrangers" you mean a human who arranges songs for instruments and orchestras, not an arranger keyboard right?

Of all the professional songwriters and musicians I know, I can count those that use an arranger keyboard to compose songs on less than two hands. Most pro's I know write songs typically on either a piano or guitar as their primary writing instrument. I myself prefer to write on piano or a synthesizer but will often use my arranger keyboard to flesh out a song after the basic concept is written. Once I have the song structure down then I typically bring in real musicians to play the parts such as guitar, sax, and drums.

I know that in Nashville there are songwriters who use arrangers to flesh out songs but afterwards they bring in world class studio musicians to track the songs after they are written. I've yet to meet a single professional published songwriter who has conceived, recorded, and released a song to radio, TV, or film that was done entirely on an arranger keyboard.

Arranger keyboards are a very, very small niche and while those here on Synthzone may utilize them daily, we are the exception and not the rule.



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 09-17-2008).]

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#242667 - 09/17/08 05:18 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
pianodano Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia
Quote:
Originally posted by leeboy:
Actually Korg sells more arrangers WORLDWIDE that Yamaha...not that that matters to me.

Don't know about boards in general.

Lee


I do know that I am still blown away by how good the drums sound on my PA-80. What a shame that Yamaha won't go for that sound. I bought the PA-80 and a original Tyros when they came out. Tyros 1 taught me that Tyros was really intended for the home user but sold as Flagship and for the pro. I still remember the first time I took Tyros to a daylight gig 4 or 5 years ago. Between the unviewable screen in daylight, Yamaha Tyros hardrive that failed and cartoon effect harmonizer, I sorta had my hands full. OH well, I will continue waiting. Maybe by Tyros iteration 10 they will build one that will meet my expectations.


[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 09-17-2008).]

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#242668 - 09/17/08 05:35 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
mr9000 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 318
"What is Yamaha thinking?"
--------------------------
I don't care what they are thinking,
T4 or whatever..'come on down'

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#242669 - 09/17/08 07:16 PM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Unless the T3 is a flop compared to the T2, don't expect any change in the T4

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#242670 - 09/18/08 12:21 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:
Once I have the song structure down then I typically bring in real musicians to play the parts such as guitar, sax, and drums.


Maybe you should consider changing brands of keyboards and save yourself the costs of hiring musicians :-))))

(Sorry, had to do that)
_________________________
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

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#242671 - 09/18/08 12:27 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Burkels:
Maybe you should consider changing brands of keyboards and save yourself the costs of hiring musicians :-))))

(Sorry, had to do that)



I already have a Wersi Abacus Duo Pro which sounds amazing but until samples can reproduce every nuance of an instrument, I'll still need to bring in the real players. For drums, bass, percussion, and some piano and string parts I can get away with using samples. I've yet to hear any guitar or sax sample sound so real I could forego hiring a guitarist or saxophonist. I'm sure that time will come, it just hasn't happened yet.

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#242672 - 09/18/08 07:45 AM Re: What is Yamaha thinking?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:

I already have a Wersi Abacus D....


Man... where´s your sense of humour
_________________________
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

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