Well speaking as an Irish man living in Ireland, I can tell you that we wouldn't use it more than once or twice in a night either. To be fair to Yamaha I have to say well done guys for making this sound as good as it is. It's unique, and should be considered as a representation of what else is in store for people who buy the T3.

With regards to a Tryos 3 - VS - Pa2X thread.
I think that in many ways this is not possible to compare because the Tyros is built around simplicity and factory sounds and styles. Because of this the ability to reprogram the keyboard is taken away from you. Not even the included software offers sampling or proper sound design.

The Pa2X on the other hand is completely reprogrammable. You can even overwrite the factory data. The problem there is that simply frightens people.

So rather than compare a pa2x to a Tyros, I think people should ask themselves what level do they think they are at, and which would suite them better.

Regards.
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 09-15-2008).]

I'm not sure whether people are really frightened, or perhaps simply more realistic as to the overwhelming amount of time (and skill) it takes to actually DO this.

Most of us buy arrangers so we can PLAY. If we want to program, we buy WS's and computer based instruments. They key word is immediacy. The problem seems to come from the fact that, although you CAN program new styles and make new sounds with the PA2Xpro, there are very few professionals doing it, and offering the work for sale. And what is out there is quite expensive.

So, it's hard to come here (as a developer or as a user and home style maker) and go 'it's easy to do this', when the high prices and VERY little choice seem to indicate it is anything BUT... Truth is, as you very well know, to make a style that even comes CLOSE to the quality of the factory ROM styles takes forever, even at the hands of the most skilled player/programmer.

And we SURE don't appear to have a surfeit of those at SZ!

Content, content, content.... without that, the most advanced arranger on the planet is a plank. Korg do an amazing job of raising it's users' expectations by having advanced style creation tools on the instrument, and factory styles that DO have different patterns for almost every chord you can think of. But the price of this is vastly increased complexity of creation, if you want to reach that bar.

Few of us can make even simple styles well. And now we have to deal with THIS? I think the ball is firmly in Korg's hands. The lack of style selection for the PA2Xpro IS hurting it. It's almost the number one criticism of the board from actual owners. A new OS is all well and good, but probably sales of the PA2 will shoot up a lot more if it had simply been a hundred new styles...

They could have charged for the OS update... But the styles need to be free (because everyone trades them around, anyway!). A $50 charge for the OS update (which could be needed to play the new styles, anyway) would subsidize a LOT of new style development by the few talented ones that can actually do it!

I've heard a LOT of user styles for Yamaha's. It's often touted as one of the main advantages of the brand. But I have to say, few of them use much of the Mega ability that make the factory styles so good (except cut and paste jobs from existing styles). Having the tools available hasn't helped Yamaha, either, I would say. It's easy to make simple styles, but the ones that get our juices flowing seem to be primarily up to the makers themselves.

Hurry up, Korg... That M3 free update sets the bar. PA2Xpro owners payed a lot MORE for their Korg. Where is THEIR 'happy ending'?

BTW, James, seeing as how you are here...

Any word about whether Korg managed to increase the speed of sample RAM load times?

For the rough and tumble, 'any song, any time' world of the arranger pro, sample load time is critical (you can't load EVERYTHING you could ever possibly want in advance - you never know what it is!).

Is it improved yet?

And, have they sent you any details about the new articulation parameters, and what can and can't be used for sample triggering?

As a leading sample developer for Korg arrangers, did they give you a 'heads up' on any of it? How does it compare to SA or SA2?

Enquiring minds want to know

Originally posted by Irishacts: "The Pa2X on the other hand is completely reprogrammable. You can even overwrite the factory data. The problem there is that simply frightens people."

If a person happened to overwrite the factory data and something went awry would it then be possible afterward to restore the Pa2XPRO to the original factory setup and recover from such a mishap? I would guess that a separate flash ram chip containing the original factory data would be required on the Pa2XPRO to be able to restore user overwritten data to the original factory data but maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah, to a lot of people it would be kind of scary having that power of control and the prospect of overwriting factory data if he or she chooses. Especially if the person couldn't restore the Pa2XPRO to the original factory setup themselves if something went wrong and had to send the keyboard in to a Korg factory authorized service center to get it fixed. And the scariest part of all (if indeed a person isn't able to restore overwritten data to the factory data himself on the Pa2XPRO) would be the bill Korg hands the person for fixing it at one of their service centers. That will be 200 Euro please. Huh?? Please pay at the counter on your way out.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-15-2008).]

Generally instruments that offer so much programming capability come with either a factory restore disc or a method via a few button pushes on power up to restore the instrument to its original factory settings. I've never heard of any newer keyboard requiring a service center to restore the factory settings, let alone charging 200 Euros to do so. My Oasys and Wersi can easily be reset to factory specs by simply loading a restore CD. I suspect the PA2X Pro would be no different.

(From the Pa2X Pro owner's manual, pag. 18):

"A backup copy of all original data is supplied with the Accessory
CD, and can be found on our website (www.korgpa.com). You
can freely download it, in case you want to restore the Pa2X to its
original status.

Hi Diki.



Yes, this is what I'm trying to get at, and if that's the case then, are we in general then saying that those who simply want to “PLAY” can only sound better over time if they keep buying new and better keyboards ?.

Where on the other hand, a workstation arranger (pa2X) can offer you all that already, and from there you can expand your technical abilities.

There's no right or wrong answer I guess, each to their own. I'm just wondering I suppose why people are happy to just PLAY when there's so much more enjoyment to be got from PLAYING with your own data rather than factory presets all the time.

Kind Regards.
James.

Well said!!
lets bring back the arranger in arranger keyboards.

Some of us are very technical and love to do the programming kind of stuff. With the PA we can go deep if we want...or just PLAY!

Rikki has been very succesful at creating some nice styles for PA. I have just got started doing some...the tools are pretty good. My biggest issue isn't learning how to do styles it's not being a good enough musician to do it...hopefully that will come.

The big thing I would like more of is song specific styles...I think the feature on the PA to use MIDI files to create a style is something that holds a lot of future for me...I want to learn how to do that.

Meanwhile there is plenty of great styles with great sounds (Drums kick ass) on board to keep me happy.

Lee

Yep, that's about it...the majority of arranger buyers will never use these features.

Doesn't matter what company...any rep or clinician will tell you that most users do not delve very deep into their arrangers.

It's mostly pick a style and play...rinse and repeat.

Biggest requests that I get are for more styles, or where to find them.

Thankfully, Yamaha has awesome third party support.

Ian