I’m wondering why (I think) most of you are playing Yamaha’s and Korgs (and some G-70’s) and NOT Ketrons?

Outside of actually playing an SD5 for about two hours, I hardly have any hands-on experience with it. But in those two hours, I was knocked out with what that thing can do. Since then I’ve been reading everything I could about the SD5 for quite awhile now. I’ve also downloaded every demo from every site I could find on the Net. Just about every one I listen to is brilliant (good instrument sounds and good players demo-ing them). I think they are the Rolls-Royce of arrangers…definitely for sounds, and probably also for versatility. Not sure yet about the ease of use on stage.

So, I think most of you agree with me on what I wrote so far. And, if so, I’m curious why you play everything else but…..?

MC said he sold his because it was too heavy to carry around. That’s a good reason.

Some of my own Ketron criticisms (that might put me off of buying one) are:

1) The dance styles are too aggressive….kind of get in your face….not easy-going as in (my opinion) the Roland’s.

2) What happens if the particular SD5 that you buy is trouble-prone from the start? What Ketron dealer (from the small pool of US Ketron dealers) is going to back that up with a new one? I’ve been down this road before with a previous gigging instrument and it’s a nightmare?

3) I’m REAL concerned about service if it goes down. I’m guessing it would have to go to a “service center” which (no matter what state you live in) would be 7-8 states away and it will be gone for weeks.

4) Because of the uniqueness of the Ketron sound, if your act was successful partly because of the Ketron “sound,” you’d have to have a second SD5 for backup.

5) It IS a small company, and, yes, what if the Audya “breaks” them financially and they go under. What if the Audya DOESN’T break them and, being a small company, they still go under, What if they decide to convert the company into a meat-packing plant?


I’ve been thinking about buying one for quite a while now, but every time I’m ready to plop down the money, something goes off in my head saying: “not a good idea!”

So that brings me back to: “What’s the reason, when all of you have good things to say about the Ketron in this forum, that you still stick to Yammie and his friends, Korgie and Rolando? I need new thoughts to toss around in my head before I make any moves!

Lucky

Just do a search on SZ and you'll read why we tried them & why we sold them again or kept them, its been discussed for years.....

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-22-2008).]

Sure, Donny....I'll do a "search" on Ketron and by the time I get through reading through the 10,000 posts in here that have "Ketron" in them, I'll be too old to even play one!

Things change over time....that goes for "thoughts" and "situations" too! I'm wondering what the latest school of thought is on why more of you are NOT playing Ketrons!

Lucky

Just like BMW and Mercedes Benz may not be liked by many, the few that love these cars would buy them again and again ... despite their high prices. There are those who love the quiet smooth ride of the Toyota Camry and would stick to these over and over again.

It's all about personal taste. Do you want your performance to sound like a CD or live show? In-your-face styles or more of a studio-feel? No keyboard yet has it all, and so people are left to choose. Now there are some who can afford to use/combine both worlds with 2 or more different keyboards, but for the average end-user, a lot of choices need to be made BEFORE purchasing a high-end arranger keyboard ~ as is the case with most goods and services in today's world.

With regards to service and product support, Ketron has one of the best now with a quick turn-around time in cases where the unit has to be sent to a service center. Being a smaller firm, Ketron can easily and quickly get parts to their repair centers enabling quick service and very short wait time (where applicable).

As for Audya breaking them ... . We just want to make sure that we get it right ... THE FIRST TIME hence a lot of time is being spent on finishing up the product. In as much as we want to keep our current Ketron fans with the real-live-in-your-face styles, we also thought we should invite others with a different taste by throwing in some studio-quality stuff too - merging both worlds into one machine , which could be a 'first' for a keyboard of such nature.

The official release date will be out in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for your patience as we continue to work harder ... so you don't have to.

I've owned & used Korgs, Rolands, Yamahas, but still keeps coming back to Ketron MidJay for fun & serious gigging. Altough not perfect in some ways, it's uniqueness & features makes it always my favorite all-in-one music/entertainment machine.

Even the little SD2 has amazing realism in it's banks of voices. At that price point, one cannot expect accessability like the SD5 or Midjay even,but, all of the voices are topnotch.

Here in the UK, the answer is simple -
No importer, no dealers and no Ketron answers to emails.

As a big Ketron fan, I've asked the question before - Do Ketron really want to sell their keyboards at all?
Doesn't look like it from where I'm standing.
Tony, Sheffield UK

For me, it's simple... no lookey, no touchy, no sale.

Sure, the factory demos got to be good enough to pique my interest, but if I can't play one first, I won't buy one. I need a local dealer before I will trust my livelihood to a piece of gear with no backup (and who, exactly, goes and buys two of everything?)...

Well, for me, I must've had a lemon. It was the most awful experience of my lifetime. But DonM is so happy with his, he offered to take it off my hands. Russ is a happy Ketron guy and actually did trade me even for his G70 (goodbye to that one too). AJ was super nice during my frustration and always a class act. I took a lot of heat from some here about my discontent and was basically accused of not knowing what I was doing. I wanted to make it work because it has some unique features, but the SD5 kept me awake at nights until I washed my hands of it. When I switched to heaven (PA800), I knew I was correct in my assessment.

[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 08-23-2008).]

I have played X1, SD1, SD5 and Midjay. I absolutely love the sound for what I do.
I'm now playing the Midjay with a controller and looking forward to auditioning the Audya.
As AJ said, it's not for everyone, but if you want to sound like a live band, it is the answer.
My experience with the PA800 was exactly opposite of Zuki's. I tried for a couple of months to make it work but was so relieved when I sold it. It's the only keyboard I ever had that my audience commented about how dull and lifeless it sounded. In it's defense, it was the first one to be sold in the U.S. (the rep provided it) and it may have been a dud.
I've always kept some kind of backup no matter what brand I'm using, but so far in close to 30 years of arrangers, in fact since they were invented, I've never had one fail completely.
DonM

My X1 was in the top 3....of my favorite arranger keyboards.....and yes..the other two were Roland..

Yamaha and Korg barely made my top 10..

What the X1 lacked for me ..was a stage ready OS...and it basically is the same OS today....Let me explain..I needed a board that I could make changes or alterations on the fly...I also needed an easier all around..get around keyboard..the X1 didn't do it...I used the G1000 and the X1 during the same period..the X1 beat the G1000 with drums and bass..as Ketron still beats most of the other boards...Other features and certain sounds..it does not..

My short lived SD1..was very uncomfortable to use...and in a dark room..forgettaboutit!!!

I certainly could live with Ketron products..as my second choice..and still be "happy"...that I could not say about any other boards today...Thankfully, I don't have to go with my second choice...

I don't know what I would do if I needed a 3rd choice.. ...maybe..go back to accordion..

Fran, the Midjay has a totally different OS, and I'm assuming the Audya will have something similar. It's really easy to get around, and I love the registration system.
Drawbacks of the Midjay as an arranger would be the lack of ability to stack sounds on the right hand, unless you create a combination and save it as a new sound. This doesn't bother me, because I never use more than one sound except combination piano/strings, and there is a preset voice for that. I also created a piano/vocal OOH voice as well.
As far as the OS on the older models, it works great, but is totally different from the other companies. It is unique to Ketron and there is a learning curve. In many ways I prefer it to that of Yamaha, and in most ways to Korg. I do like Roland's OS also.
Actually one of the things I like about the old Ketron OS is how easily and quickly you can make changes and save them on the fly.
And you can easily edit and replace all the factory styles with your own if you want to.
DonM

[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 08-23-2008).]

As many know, I was the demo guy ( before AJ)for X1 & SD1. I created a video manual for X1 & currently I am on the SD1/SD1plus dvd...

I have a SD1 at my home & a SD1plus at my Church. I could not use anything different.
I tried a T2 & PA800 & PSRS900, but could not equal the sound of Ketron...

My love for Ketron started with the MS40/50&60 keyboards and I have never looked back.

I think it would be interesting to hear what kind of musics those that play Ketrons primarily play to your audiences...

I just don't feel a blanket recommendation without this fact is of all that much use... Some arrangers seem better for smooth jazz, some for rock and hiphop, some for bigband, etc.. To be honest, if someone is primarily playing country or R&B, an arranger that excels at bigband is probably not that great a buy, and vice versa.

I agree with Diki. If I take the plunge, I'll want a board that works best for rock and pop primarily, with a little blues and reggae thrown in. A board that's great for big band or ethnic stuff won't help me.

------------------
Mike

Great thread - how about folks thoughts on which keyboard best serves various genre of music?

Hammer

I think Don Mason plays a wide variety.
I use my keyboard for Church and primarliy use styles for real time application. I play a grand piano when not using styles.
When I play with my Duo, I primarily use midi files. Styles do not cover Steely Dan,Van Morrison,Santana,County hits,Buffett,Buffet,Huey Lewis and all the other tunes my guitar player & I like to entertain our target growd - 30-40-50 year old ...

I have all my midi files copied to a master folder on the hard drive and able to call any song up in a juke box mode... I like the ability to instantly take out all parts accept drums & bass with the push of a button. I like being able to remove parts from a sequence, reduce volume levels, change keys , change instruments used on a sequence and have it all saved on my hard drive without losing the original version.

I like the ability to remix a midi file by using the drums from style vs the drums that are on the sequence instantly.. Gives me a chance to make a sequence unique.. The drums on Ketron products have always been a favorite of many Ketron users. The comment you hear the most are "wow those drums sound live" ...

So I don't think it's about who your target customer is , it is the general opinion by Ketron owners , that Ketron sounds better and gives the one man band or duo / trio end users features that are needed for live entertaining.....

If I sit in with a band or just jam with some friends, than the sounds, from my Sd1 such as piano/organ/strings/brass etc.. are more favorable than other manufacturers.
I personally do not like the roland piano sample or Yamaha... It's just a matter of personal taste, period.

FWIW here in Australia, I can't (easily) get a hands on with any Ketron Product.

So I'd love to try one, but......

(and AJ - even Mercedes, BMW etc have dealerships just about everywhere!)

Hi Hellboy,
Gospel Piano Villawood is the Aust Distributer.

If you're looking for an SD1+, I've currently got 1 keyboard too many.haahaa

I'm so happy with the Korg PA800, my psr & SD1+ don't get used anymore.

best wishes
Rikki

Ha!

Well Rikki my wife would KILL me if I bought another Board so soon after buying the PA1-X.

Yeah I've looked up the Gospel Pianos site before re Ketron - it's in Sydney and I'm in Brisvegas, so....

Hey Hellboy, Google maps says it's only a 12 hour drive. Go for it.

Dan01, I liked your last post. Good point - you go with SMF's on most of your stuff? And your Ketron can do all of the things you mentioned? I like the idea of being able to silence individual instruments, as on some gigs I may have one or more of those players with me, and I can just leave in the arranger mix the ones that aren't there. But, as hellboy said, I've never seen one on the floor of any music store near me. I believe I do know one guy that plays one up here. Maybe I should call him and go check his out. I do like their demo files!

------------------
Mike

If you like those features, you'll find all of them and much more in the Roland's, with the exception of you can't get the SMF player and the arranger drums to run in tandem. However, it's a simple matter to use the arranger Recorder to lay down a drum track, then import it into the SMF with an external sequencer...

There's a graphic mixer page with icons for all the sounds used in the sequence that a quick tap of the icon mutes that part, and easy access to part control over vol/pan/rev/chorus on the sliders.

It is, by far, the easiest and most powerful SMF player I have had the pleasure of using. The Marker feature alone pushes it into almost arranger-like control of your song. No more playing it back the same every time! Want an extra solo? Want to cut to the ending quicker? Want a vamp in the middle? You can do this now, even with SMF's.

Want synchronized lyrics on a BIG bright display? No problem... Want to Link FOUR completely different keyboard layouts and sounds (not just change one sound, but change EVERYTHING) to the SMF? No problem. This thing ROCKS for SMF's...

If anyone knows where in NY I can try one, I'd be interested.

Maybe Ketron-AJ could take note and pass these soundings on to those responsible for Ketron sales. The general consensus of opinion seems to be that some, like me, would DEFINITELY buy a Ketron if there was a dealer in the area. Others are open minded and would possibly buy, if they had a chance to see, and play them live. Hardly anyone will buy if they can't see, hear or play them. If Ketron will not set up a proper dealership network, why not go back to the travelling salesman idea from the old days. If some guy wants to call at my home, with an SD3 HD under his arm, he can drive away with the cash in less than 30 minutes. Let's face it, even Yamaha sales would be abysmal if their sales division operated in the same way as Ketron's.

Ketron is a very small company all around versus Yamaha.

I have a Ketron SD5, SD4, SD2, Midjay, and Midjay Plus.

Yamaha S900, S700

Korg PA2xpro, PA50

I'm located in Milford, CT. about 40 minutes outside of NY

Call me

203-876-1133
Frank

Some time ago, AJ conducted seminar-clinics around the U.S. Perhaps this discussion will encourage Ketron and AJ and/or other Ketron reps to start regular demo-clinics around the county again.
I play a variety of music genres and venues from Italian restaurants with midi accordion, to oldies dance parties with a Korg PA800, to cocktail and easy jazz with either set up. I have 2 Midjays, as per Diki's concern re; backup. The Midjay serves me well in terms of sounds, adequate styles (with the addition of SD5 and other converted styles), ease of use on the gig, flexibility and portability. I also have a couple of controllers to back up the PA800.
I certainly would like to attend a Ketron seminar as I know that I am not using the Midjay to its fullest. I would also like to see and hear some of the other products. I especially want to hear-see how the Midjay Plus is different or better than the Midjay.
Ciao,
Jerry

"If you like those features, you'll find all of them and much more in the Roland's, with the exception of you can't get the SMF player and the arranger drums to run in tandem. However, it's a simple matter to use the arranger Recorder to lay down a drum track, then import it into the SMF with an external sequencer..."


Hi Diki...

I respect your opinion & I am certain you respect mine..Ketron's Idea of the drum remix is so you can trigger fill in's and move to different variations during the playback of the sequence, which in turn gives real time flexibility vs a recorded drum track. If I want to switch from a reggae style to a cumbia style in real time, I can..

I started with an Auto Orchestra (Solton product ofrom the late 70's). Currently, I have two old MS-60's that have been in use...often outside on a patio...for over 12 years, an SD-5 and a Midjay.

As I've said before, I like the product, but have problems with the company and certain staff members and business practices. Would not buy a new unit from them. Got my Midjay from Don and the SD-5 from Jim. Things will have to change at Ketron before I buy from them. All the dealers I know are aware of the problem and don't like it, either. It has to do with direct sales to end customers, circumventing the distribution channel, and that's a major "no no" in the business world.
If I were a dealer, I'd ship existing stock back and not talk to them until the situation was resolved.


Great product, though!


Russ

Quote: Dnj
Ketron is a very small company all around versus Yamaha.
-----------------------------------------
Nobody gets any bigger without making an effort so, unfortunately, that's the way they're going to stay, (unless they go bust altogether) if they don't make an effort to sell their (extremely good) products.
Tony, Sheffield UK

I have also had Ketron products dating back to the MS-40 & because of the same type of problems that Russ described, I am seriously considering Roland or Korg for my next arranger.

Don't you think more people will switch to other s ...since next they intend to introduce the AUDYA at a price point of over $5000.00 US....who is directing Ketrons marketing worldwide?

Either Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, from all indications...

I sure would like to see one of the above mentioned companies offer a module based on their top-‘o-the-line arranger.
Ciao,
Jerry

I agree with Jerry. It would be great to see an arranger in the form of a module for midi accordion players or midi guitar players. It would be great to have another option other than the Ketron line.

That’s a mighty good response I got on this topic….I appreciate all the feedback. Been reading everything whenever I had time over the weekend. Thought I would jot down some thoughts I had.

AJ: “Just like BMW and Mercedes Benz may not be liked by many, the few that love these cars would buy them again and again ... despite their high prices. There are those who love the quiet smooth ride of the Toyota Camry and would stick to these over and over again.”

Lucky: That pretty much answers the question. Some prefer Ginger Ale and some prefer Root Beer. Doesn’t matter how good the product is…..it’s a “preference” for the “suit of clothes” that YOU wear best.

Anthony Johnson: “Here in the UK, the answer is simple -No importer, no dealers and no Ketron answers to emails. As a big Ketron fan, I've asked the question before - Do Ketron really want to sell their keyboards at all? Doesn't look like it from where I'm standing.

Lucky: Statements like this are what I get nervous about. I like to know that a company not only cares about it’s customers, but also about people in general. Just ‘cause you’re not selling in a country, doesn’t mean you ignore their inquiries. Will I be a victim of “selective recognition” some day?

Diki (can’t forget good old Diki): “For me, it's simple... no lookey, no touchy, no sale.

Lucky: That’s exactly what I’m up against. I remember I couldn’t get enough of playing that SD5, but after a year or two, I wouldn’t trust my memory!

At one time I purchased (without hearing it) the EV SB300 system (two tops…two portable subs) based solely on the EV name. The rig cost me $2500. The tops are incredible, but the two bass cabinets have been sitting there decomposing from non-use. Awful, muddy bass that I wouldn’t even put on my computer speakers. That is the first and last time I will make a purchase without doing a test run.

Zuki: “Well, for me, I must've had a lemon. It was the most awful experience of my lifetime.”

Lucky: Tell me about it….probably more “awful” even than trying to do crossword puzzles without a pencil!

I’ve been there. Years ago I bought a primary instrument and got a lemon too. The dealer wouldn’t take it back. I had to learn how to repair it myself. After every 1-2 hours of playing, the brittle wire “contacts” on the keys would snap off. On every break, there I was, replacing another ½ dozen contacts. A great sounding instrument, but what good is it if it’s undependable. An absolute nightmare I don’t wish to repeat.

DonM: “I have played X1, SD1, SD5 and Midjay. I absolutely love the sound for what I do.”
Lucky: Encouraging….especially from Don….he does a good show and been playing, I think, about 30 years now? Lots of hands-on experience.

Fran Carango: “What the X1 lacked for me ..was a stage ready OS...and it basically is the same OS today....Let me explain..I needed a board that I could make changes or alterations on the fly...I also needed an easier all around..get around keyboard..the X1 didn't do it.”

Lucky: Exactly what I need myself, so I’m hoping the SD5 is easy to work with on stage as I tend to go from one song to another because I do a lot of stuff out of my head.

DonM: (explains the actual simplicity of working on a Ketron)

Dan01: “As many know, I was the demo guy ( before AJ)for X1 & SD1. I created a video manual for X1 & currently I am on the SD1/SD1plus dvd…“

Lucky: Yes, I believe I caught your demo on Youtube. Very impressive and well-done video. And you talk very confidently.

Diki: “I think it would be interesting to hear what kind of musics those that play Ketrons primarily play to your audiences...I just don't feel a blanket recommendation without this fact is of all that much use... Some arrangers seem better for smooth jazz, some for rock and hiphop, some for bigband, etc..”

Lucky: Diki struck oil on this one….great perspective!

Dan01: “that Ketron sounds better and gives the one man band or duo / trio end users features that are needed for live entertaining..…”

Lucky: That’s what I like to/need to hear!

Hellboy44: “FWIW here in Australia, I can't (easily) get a hands on with any Ketron Product.”

Lucky: Heck….I’m in America and I can’t find one here either!

(at this point, I though I was going to lose the topic, but IL Parrothead arrived to salvage it)

Chony: “If anyone knows where in NY I can try one, I'd be interested.”

Lucky: Been saying that for quite a while now….I end up with a big, fat “zero” (New York of all places!)!

Anthony Johnson: “Maybe Ketron-AJ could take note and pass these soundings on to those responsible for Ketron sales. The general consensus of opinion seems to be that some, like me, would DEFINITELY buy a Ketron if there was a dealer in the area. Others are open minded and would possibly buy, if they had a chance to see, and play them live. Hardly anyone will buy if they can't see, hear or play them. If Ketron will not set up a proper dealership network, why not go back to the travelling salesman idea from the old days. If some guy wants to call at my home, with an SD3 HD under his arm, he can drive away with the cash in less than 30 minutes. Let's face it, even Yamaha sales would be abysmal if their sales division operated in the same way as Ketron's.”

Lucky: AJ….For a “junior member,“ what Anthony says here has really got punch! Are you listening, I hope? This mirrored my thoughts exactly. I’m only going to add that a Ketron demo person should be traveling around the country and advertising what major city you’ll be in and when. And have someone doing the demo that really knows his stuff. If I’m correct, you can do anything with the Ketron products except make chicken salad sandwiches!

Remember….you couldn’t sell $10 bills for $5 without ADVERTISING! Sam Ash periodically has workshops (though they’re generally limp), and Barnes & Nobles has authors come in to talk about their books, Domino’s pizza has signs hanging from telephone pole wires (Lord knows how they got them up there) pushing their Wednesday night specials (buy any large pie off the menu and get a free tank of gas and a new Lexus). Why can’t Ketron be the “snake oil salesman” pushing his wares from town to town?

Frankieve: “I have a Ketron SD5, SD4, SD2, Midjay, and Midjay Plus.
Yamaha S900, S700 Korg PA2xpro, PA50 I'm located in Milford, CT. about 40 minutes outside of NY Call me Frank

Lucky: Frank…I don’t know if I can make it there, but I will definitely call you.

Jerry T: “Some time ago, AJ conducted seminar-clinics around the U.S. Perhaps this discussion will encourage Ketron and AJ and/or other Ketron reps to start regular demo-clinics around the county again.”

“I certainly would like to attend a Ketron seminar as I know that I am not using the Midjay to its fullest. I would also like to see and hear some of the other products. I especially want to hear-see how the Midjay Plus is different or better than the Midjay.”


Lucky: AJ……another “wake-up” call!

Captain Russ: “As I've said before, I like the product, but have problems with the company and certain staff members and business practices. Would not buy a new unit from them. Got my Midjay from Don and the SD-5 from Jim. Things will have to change at Ketron before I buy from them. All the dealers I know are aware of the problem and don't like it, either. It has to do with direct sales to end customers, circumventing the distribution channel, and that's a major "no no" in the business world.”

Lucky: That’s interesting. Lou would have sold me one directly (and when the exchange rate was affordable). I didn’t get the same response from the new distributors. They played it straight right down the line. Are you sure about that?

Captain Russ: “Great product, though!”

Lucky: Whew!

Anthony Johnson: “Nobody gets any bigger without making an effort so, unfortunately, that's the way they're going to stay, (unless they go bust altogether) if they don't make an effort to sell their (extremely good) products.
Tony, Sheffield UK”

Lucky: Tony, I’m guessing you’re in marketing yourself. Or were you an extra in that wonderful movie about Sheffield: The Full Monty?


Lucky: But, and this is important for me, because, as I mentioned…I already went through every musicians nightmare: the instrument from Hell…the classic “lemon” (though someone here said, all in all, they haven’t had much trouble with arrangers over the years. I would say the same, as I’m sure they’ve been designing them much more effectively).

So what’s important is:

a) have you Ketron owners had much trouble with your units?

b) are you happy with the service Ketron provides for you (here in the USA) when you DO have breakdowns?

Lucky

I don't recall having any problems. I've had a question or two and I can pick up the phone and call Ted Kraus in New Jersey, the Sales Manager for Ketron in the U.S. He either answers the phone or calls me right back.
He can arrange for you to buy one. You can ask him about a trial and he will arrange it.
The number is on the new Ketron website. www.ketron.com
There is even a demo song by ME on there.
DonM

Hi Lucky,
A really business-like synopsis you've done there - I'm sure, with the thought you put into it, that you'll wind up a happy man.
Nice to get so much feed back from everyone.

a) I've had my MS40 for many years (can't remember how long ago they introduced them) and I've never had a moments trouble with it. Still some good sounds on it and the strings still sound better than any other keyboard that I've ever heard.

b) Although I'm in the UK which isn't really relevant to you, I'm glad I've never needed any service or I may have been in deep sh*t - this comes back again to Ketron's lack of a dealer network.

To sum up: Brilliant instruments - company probably run by 2 guys named Stan & Ollie.

No, I'm not in marketing - I'm a retired grinder (little mester) from the cutlery trade and still like good quality products.

As for "The Full Monty? with it's lovely Yorkshire (Sheffield) humour - it would have been even funnier with me appearing naked but I'm very shy and all my time on stage has been spent fully clothed.
Best wishes,
Tony, Sheffield UK

Don Great Demo on the SD5...as always love your work!!

Hi Hellboy
quite honestly, I'd probably regret selling if I did.
Regrettably Ketron's over here don't have a good resale value, possibly because they're not well known. Only reason I probably wouldn't consider an Audya.

I'm just going thru one of my style creation phases at the moment, & the Korg's got great onboard editing tools etc, wheras the Ketron doesn't. Hence , currently it's sitting idle.

best wishes
Rikki

I guess it's the size of the market here, but I have had next to an impossible task demoing the totl arrangers. A couple of years ago, I found a dealer in the Chicago area that had a G70 on the floor and sat with it for an hour or so. He wanted outrageous money for it, though. I've never been able to find a Korg PA1 or 2X -- only the PA800or 500. Never a Tyros, only the S900 and below. And never any Ketrons of any sort.

It's frustrating -- especially living in an area with several GC's, Sam Ashes and other stores. It almost makes me want to buy a lower line keyboard and experiment it with it in my free time to see if an arranger is for me.

------------------
Mike

I can't use my Ketron Solton MS40 for live gigs because sometimes it freezes up on start up. When that happens I have to open the case, push on the chips then it will start. So it is just to un-reliable for live gigs. Too bad bacause the quality of sounds and styles are excellent even for today. I don't know what else to buy for midi accordian. Any ideas are welcome and appreciated.

Will this do you, you are on the wrong site for Ketron, go and look under forum list, there are a few Ketron nuts on there.

My question is, "WHAT STYLE OF LIVE BAND IN YOUR FACE MUSIC DOES A KETRON DO?" Is it a live CW band, a live Rock band, a live Heavy Metal band etc. Or can I sound like a live Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Frank Sinatra, Steve Tyrell, Tony Bennet, Ray Charles live band? If the answer is the latter list, I want a dozen of them.

So 98% of you will never agree with me about which is the best arranger. The best arranger is what you like.

If you don't believe me, ask Fran. He's the only living soul using the G70 to play live. And what about me, I'm the only living half human that's ever played the i30 live for more than a month. I think Donny said he had one for about two months back in 1878 or some where about.

Ooops

All of the above Boo. The Audya sounds fantastic for every type of music.
The G70 sounds a little different, but it too sounds extremely live. It is one of the best arrangers ever produced. I think Diki still uses his too. I would have one except it is BIG and HEAVY. I tried E80 and it was smaller and HEAVY.
No need to lug around a 50 plus pound arranger these days. PA3X is fantastic and is easy to carry and handle.
DonM

I can tell you why I don't play Ketron keyboards in very simple terms -
virtually poor to no support at all from the USA dealer. I still have a Ketron SD2 unit that went south after doing a Ketron suggested firmware upgrade and after nearly a year now I have not gotten the issue resolved with Ketron. Why would I spend thousands of dollars on that kind of response from any company?

Deane

I love the Audya styles. I don't there is anything as good as those styles and I think they would be perfect for what I do. So why don't have one?

1. mucho dinero $$$
2. the RH voices are just OK.
3. It's a big bulky KB and not very pretty.
4. Reports such as Hammers scare me

If I'm going to spend 4,000 on a KB, I want it to be perfect or close to perfect as possible. So far I don't think there is anything out there that would make me compleletly happy. I have faith that eventually a company will make a TOTL KB that will meet my demands. Until then I just need to be at peace with what I got and contintue to improve as a player. That's the bottom line anyways. In the right hands an audience would not know the diffenrnce between a $500 Korg Micro Arranger and a $4000 Tyros 4. Read my signature.

From AJ

"With regards to service and product support, Ketron has one of the best now with a quick turn-around time in cases where the unit has to be sent to a service center. Being a smaller firm, Ketron can easily and quickly get parts to their repair centers enabling quick service and very short wait time (where applicable). "

AJ, where was this wonderful support when I needed it????? I left DOZENS of messages on CMC's phone and sent as many emails. If they can't get it right over a $400.00 piece of gear I don't want anything to do with them.

Deane

I still believe that is the STYLES that make or break one's choice in an arranger... and not JUST the ROM styles. Yes, I need great live sounding styles, but I also need a solid (and hopefully, American slanted) supply of NEW and legacy styles.

This is the corner that Ketron have painted themselves into. Yes, the onboard styles sound incredible... as recordings of great musicians should. But this means that any new styles need to match this quality. And new styles (especially ones biased towards us non-Mediterranean players) are few and far between, and legacy Ketron styles don't use the live loops that the ROM ones do (or only a drum track, if older styles can be imported).

Add to that, they are incredibly expensive to produce compared to MIDI styles, and cannot be re-voiced (substituting a brush kit for the sticks one, i.e.) and you end up with a much smaller selection of styles to pick and choose from. If the ROM selection covers ALL your needs, and you don't get bored with the same old, same old quickly, then the Audya offers much that puts it head and shoulders above other arrangers.

But for me, this one issue makes it a non-starter for me.

And we still haven't got into the limited audio guitar (or any chord based track) chord selection that the current generation of hardware forces on you. Maybe when Ketron redesign to adopt current generation hardware (faster SSHD's, faster RAM pipelines) and maybe design some easy to use software that facilitates easy import of current sliced audio libraries, the style selection will explode, and we can watch it grow into the product we NEED (or at least, I need).

Until then...

I have always liked Ketron's sounds better than anything else I might try. Started with the Solton Artist 2000, then MS40, X4, SD3. But lack of available dealerships does kill Ketron- I even know one dealer who calls me with questions because I have more experience with their products than he does . AJ has been very helpful and repaired one of my modules very quickly. But he has a lot on his shoulders, and if he were to leave Ketron tomorrow, we would be sunk here. He's just one guy stretched too thin. Ted at CMC must be very busy- it takes a lot of time to get answer on a problem , but I can get a quick response if I want to buy a 4k audya. CMC was willing to let myself and a friend of mine come to NY (from NJ) to check one out , but by appointment. And M-F daytime hours were the only choice- doesn't work if you work.

I talked to another dealer I have purchased from and his opinion is that Ketron is focused on Europe and the US market is not important enough for them to direct their resources to it.

And, good luck if you or your dealer need to contact Italy about your Ketron product from end of June till September- the country is closed. Same with Orla. Yamaha/Korg/Roland do not abandon their customers for over 2 months in the summer. Again, small time European thinking/marketing.

The remaining convincing item is the product itself, but recent Q.C. and design flaws have shaken credibility with customers.

At this point, I am pursuing using a keyboard from a mainstream company while I spend only 10% of that purchase for a Ketron module to get their sounds ( I now have an SD2 and SD4). But that means more pieces, more cables, more setup time, etc...

Paul,

I love your signature, To me that means "real musician," "pianist," "great keyboard player" not necessarily an entertainer. Now, now don't take this personal and get your feathers ruffled! . I love entertainers and I thoroughly enjoy being entertained. Hell a monkey is an entertainer. Ha ha!

Love Solton/Ketron sounds, hate the ethics and service you get in the US.

I have a Midjay, two MS-60's, one SD-5 and WILL NOT ever buy another product from them.


R.

Russ but how do you really feel??

They REALLY PISS ME OFF!

You would never have known, would you? LOL!

Worst company and people I have EVER dealt with in the music business, and I've been around for a while.


R.

Russ isn't it great that we have choices?

Don-

How many notes of polyphony does the pa500 have? I know the 800 has 120 but I don't see the number for your 500 in any advertising. Ever have problems relating to it?

80

Russ,

What to you put all this down to, is it the importer or Ketron, we have TWD in the UK but if something was to happen to him, hell I don't know what they would do.

Tony

Tony, it is lack of customer support and efforts to sell instruments directly to consumers, bypassing distributors. That's a major "no no" in retail. Lots of distributors...mostly former distributors, know of the sales deal and have reported it to the importer; yet it continues.

That's pretty inexcusable, in my book.


Sad!

R.

Russ,

The shops have all the power stop stocking or selling them, the problem is if the shops are only buying as the KB is ordered and not holding stock the importer might think he can sell direct, like you say Russ it isn't right, funny old World Russ. If the KB goes wrong, no one wants to know.

Tony