Just wondering if the selling prices were cheaper is putting people off from purchasing a Wersi product regardless of how it's sounds & features?.....

Donny,
Just listened to the style demo's of Abacus' post.... and to be honest : "Oh boy they sound extremely outdated/poor !"

In the early 80's I owned an Alpha350DX and it seems nothing has changed since that time.

Even if the prices would drop to 25% I still would NOT buy a Wersi because of :
a. Poor sounds
b. Poor styles
c. Poor service
d. Design/materials

Keep in mind this is my personal opinion

No, because:

(a) They "rely" on Windows, which I'd rather drink bleach than get involved with ever again

(b) They're laughably overpriced

(c) Pre- and after-sales service and support could charitably be described as rubbish

and

(d) They go out of business three times a year, rendering your warranty, and the value of your expensive instrument, worthless.

I had a Wersi Galaxy for years. The high water mark of the company. Nothing that has borne the same brand since has been worthy of association with it, and while their death throes have been protracted, they were finished when the world went digital.

[This message has been edited by Seamaster (edited 08-17-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Seamaster (edited 08-17-2008).]

Only if it were a choice of that or self-immolation.

chas

On second thought, where's that gas can?

chas

I would certainly take a very close look if it was available reasonable near by,
but there are no supplyer/dealer to visit without leave this country.
That in mind, I have to be 1000% sure it's the right thing for me before even
think about buy one.

Happy Playing whatever kb you play on
GJ

Maybe if they GAVE me one, otherwise, not a hope in hell!

I'm sorry, but sticker price means nothing in this world. The most expensive thing is seldom the best...

I've got two ears and a web connection. If I can't find any demos that impress me, and make me go "I GOTS to have one of these!", what the thing costs is totally immaterial.

The amazing thing is that, technically, there's no reason why the Abacus can't be one of the best sounding arrangers in the business. It unfortunately seems completely beyond Wersi's ability to actually fulfill that promise. Just yet another of that 'open system' mentality error, that seem to be saying "OK, it sounds like crap how WE have voiced and styled it, but because it is 'open', OF COURSE you are going to be able to make it sound MUCH better".

To which, of course, you have to think 'If the bloody manufacturers can't make it sound good, what chance do we mortals have?"

I have heard innumerable User Styles, for many different arrangers, and to be honest, only the tiniest fraction of them are as good as the best factory styles from the Big3. The factory styles are supposed to be the pinnacle you shoot for, not the junk you HAVE to make styles better than, just to be able to use your arranger!

It is LONG past time to 'put up, or shut up'. If the 'open' arrangers' manufacturers can't seem to make a decent style library, and a modern, TOTL quality sound set themselves. it is utter rubbish of them to claim how easy it should be for the poor saps who actually BUY one to make something much better themselves...

Either it IS easy, and the factory should have already done it, or it ain't

Simple as that

I don't understand why the current crop of Wersi-badged instruments is so expensive. It's like the current owners of the brand are trapped in some late seventies/early eighties timewarp, when Wersi got away with charging a king's ransom for analogue organs which were ahead of the pack by a country mile in both tone colour and performance features.

Fast forward to the present day and the new guys are trying the same hustle, only this time instead of offering something that justifies such a whopping price premium, they're punting instruments that are a basically a cheap lash-up of generic PC components and operating software that costs pennies.

Nice benches, though.

[This message has been edited by Seamaster (edited 08-17-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Seamaster (edited 08-17-2008).]

sorry from what i have heard so far. Weersi would never even be a consideration no matter how cheap it was.

Nope!

The only reason I do not own a Wersi is because of the price. I had a Delta 500 a full organ and a Wersi keyboard. They are in a class by themselves.

Would I use one for playing Country Clubs and Club House Parties? No, I do not consider it that kind of an instrument.

During the days of the organ concerts in Orlando Florida the Wersi organs stood tall above Yamaha, Roland and Kawai.

IMHO, John C.

I owned three models of Wersi keyboards back in the 80's & 90's:
The Wersi Alpha + Beta + Pegasus.

In all fairness to Wersi, I have NOT heard any of their keyboards live in the past 10 years.

One of the things to consider with Wersi...is that you will have an extremely difficult time getting anything for it upon trying to re-sell it on e-bay or elsewhere.

At least with the other brand names of keyboards mentioned in this forum you probably can get something for them however minimial it is.

I sent about $12,000 worth of Wersi Keyboards [2 keyboards] to the dealer in Lancaster to try to sell on consignment back in 1993. I have not received a "check in the mail" yet.
So, to say that Wersi instruments depreciate more than other brands would be a fair statement IMO.
Rfinnshw

Why all the conjecture? If you haven't actually played the OAS 7 Wersi instruments in person then you have no clue as to what you are talking about. That's like saying I saw a guy drive a Ferrari Testarossa on You Tube and the car was crap even though I never drove one in person.

Stating you owned a Wersi 10 years ago or that you've heard an online demo doesn't qualify you to base an opinion on an instrument you've never actually used. At least I'll actually play and instrument in person before I conclude its complete rubbish or not.

Diki,

You seem to rant ad nauseam about how much Wersi sucks but if I remember correctly, and by your own admission, you say you've never played an OAS instrument. How thoughtful of you to always chime in with a complete lack of knowledge about the instrument.

Seamaster,

OAS 7 is far from some hype that Wersi is trying to hawk and the software isn't something that's simply been rehashed. Like yourself I can't stand Windows on my home computer system but the same can't be said for the specialized Windows OS Wersi uses. OAS7 is very intuitive, sounds fantastic, and works like a charm. The reason Windows is unstable on most computer systems is that people load software into the system that was never optimized for the system. Wersi's system is specifically programmed to make the software logical, reliable, and simple. Don't take my word for it, try one yourself and see.

The components Wersi uses are far from some "cheap lash-up of generic components" and if you saw an OAS instrument in person, you'd see the build quality is unrivaled. Take a look at the Sonic Core Scope cards and give them a listen. That's the same audio card Wersi uses in the OAS systems. The bench isn't the only component that's nice! Real wood, real metal, industrial grade switches, high definition TFT touch screen displays, lots of real time controls, those components cost money.

I've made this offer many times before and not one person here has taken me up on it or even inquired. If you want to see a Wersi OAS 7 in person, come on by. I'm in Northern, CA not far from San Francisco. After seeing the Wersi in person if you want to bash it all to hell by all means do so. At least that way you'd be making an informed decision. Drop me an e-mail if you want to evaluate the Wersi.

I know there are other Wersi owners in the USA who would gladly let prospective buyers see the instrument. Call Wersi USA and I'm sure they'd be glad to arrange a meeting for you with one of them.

On another note.... I'm not sure about service or support outside of the USA but here in the US, Wersi Service is great. Chris and Ralph are first rate and you couldn't deal with a nicer bunch of guys.

Maybe they need an Organ Forum here, so the Wersi guys can hold their heads up high at least SOMEWHERE

But this is an arranger forum, so how good the Wersi's are as organs isn't really pertinent, IMO...

Curiously, one of the first VSTi's anyone sticks in an OAS Wersi is NI B4. Why is this so popular, if the damn organ section of the Wersi is supposedly so good? Head and shoulders better than Yamaha and Roland organs? If so, you wouldn't think this necessary...

Look, I'm sorry, but I'm fairly sure that MUCH more young people are picking up arrangers than old organs to learn on. And there are damn few kids even getting into arrangers, mostly preferring loop workstations and techno synths (and software synths). So if Wersi keep pandering to the dwindling demographic of 'organ players' at the expense of arranger players, that's a negative spiral they have got themselves into. Prices will continue to spiral up as fewer and fewer players want to play skating rink organ, until they go down the same drain as all the other organ companies have.

But there is little of any user music on a Wersi I have heard that justifies it's price. Most of it would convince the listener they were hearing a sub-$1000 arranger, not an $8000 über-arranger. Only the most talented, dedicated few manage to raise the Wersi sound past it's Casio roots, and that is by basically completely revoicing and restyling the entire instrument. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that most of us here prefer our TOTL arrangers to sound amazing the day you get them, and to have the ability to get better with work.

Not sound like crap, and hope that we have the skill, patience and time to make it sound good ourselves Because, going from most Wersi user demos I have heard, there's very few actual owners with that particular skill-set!

It's kind of like buying a car at Ferrari prices, but when you get it, it can barely keep up with a bust up old clunker... You HAVE to learn to be a world class racing car mechanic before you can tune it up to get the kind of speed you actually payed for in the first place. Most of us don't want to learn to be a mechanic, and few of us could ever make it as a world class one, even if we tried. But that's what you HAVE to be, to get what you payed for!

Most of us just want to DRIVE

We'll get under the hood when we feel like it, if we feel like it. Not because we are MADE to

Ensnareyou...

I'm sorry, but if a demo sucks, the instrument sucks. I don't have to play one. I've got two ears, and a pair of decent monitors. If none of YOU can make it sound any good, what makes you think I can just by playing on it?

I have never criticized anyone's playing on these demos (other than to point out the completely dated style they play in ), I merely point out (to you, it's a rant - to me it's an opinion ) just how cheesy the styles and sounds are. Do you honestly think that sitting down in front of one, holding down a chord, and hearing that same crap sound and style come out of the store's speakers is going to change my mind one little bit

It is the last resort of the desperate to claim that sitting in front of one of these things is going to change anyone's mind, if the demos ARE representative of the sound. Either they ARE, in which case I wouldn't drive across town, yet alone cross country to play one, or they AREN'T, in which case, why the hell can't any of you post a decent one? But no... the same dog poor quasi-Casio sounding embarrassments get posted, and then you get all indignant when we just tell it like it is...

Either stop posting crap like that, or expect to have a VERY hard time persuading anyone that it will all be SO different when you actually sit down in front of one...

And, Ensnareyou, the next time you voice ANY opinion on something you have heard, but not actually played, have the good grace to remember YOUR rant. If you don't trust your own ears, fine, but somehow I doubt this. If it sounds like dog doo, it IS dog doo. I don't have to sniff it as well

If every YouTube video of a Ferrari Testarossa showed it unable to corner without rolling over, you know, I would probably not have to drive it to prove it for myself! I would watch those rollover videos and go 'that car is a piece of crap!'

And so would you...

Diki,

You have no clue what you are talking about but you sure can run your mouth. You can spew negativity about Wersi all you want but you are stating your opinion based upon never having used the instrument. I'm certain if you had used one you would be eating crow right about now.

Out of the box the Wersi sounds fantastic. You don't need to add any VST's, additional samples, or tweak the hell out of it to make it sound great, the sounds are already in there. About 1 GB of factory sounds to be exact. If those sounds aren't sufficient for the end user then they can happily add AKAI samples, VST's, and STS samples from Sonic Core.

FYI... Wersi sells the NI B4 as an option because it adds a different flavor, not because the Wersi organ sounds are crap. Far from it. Organ sounds abound on the Wersi but contrary to what you believe its not an organ, its a full fledged arranger and workstation. Show me one other arranger/workstation that has the same capabilities OOTB. Only the Mediastation has similar features but it lacks Wersi's great factory sounds and intuitive interface.

Before you continue to spew rhetoric why not find a Wersi owner near you, try the instrument, then feel free to ramble away. I'd much rather your opinions be based in fact.

I've owned Yamaha's, Korg's, Roland's, Technics, and I would never rule a purchase out based upon others opinions or some crappy online MP3. I'd never have bought a Technics or Wersi if I based my purchase on opinions from others here in this forum.

If hearing an MP3 demo and having people tell you the instrument sucks having never actually used one themselves, more power to you.

Sorry, but talk about clueless...

There is but ONE thing that can change my mind about Wersi arrangers. User demos. Not Klaus or Brett or whoever tearing it up with custom stuff. Users. posting great music made on their Wersi's. You know, just like all the Korg users and Yamaha users, and Roland and Ketron users. I've heard PLENTY of demos from those manufacturers' users. And some of them are very good. Very good indeed. They don't sound cheesy, they don't sound dated, and they don't sound like the come from a ballpark.

And sorry, but I know about MP3 compression, and what it does, and doesn't do to a sound. You probably have an iPod. Does it change the sound THAT much? Really? Does it turn something beautiful into a load of poo?

No, it turns it into something just a fraction less beautiful. A 24 bit 96k 7.1 surround system couldn't make those posted demos sound any better A turd at 24 bit is still a turd. And a diamond in 160kbps MP3 format is still a diamond. I've made mp3 recordings of my G70. And I can tell you, they sound VERY close to exactly what it sounds like live. Don't even TRY to tell me that, magically, Wersi's are the ONLY thing that sound like crap in an MP3, when they sound like diamonds live!

You really ought to doublecheck your posts before you run YOUR mouth off with incredibly uninformed statements like this. It makes you sound as if you have a complete lack of any kind of grasp of reality. MP3's sound damn close to the original file (or you wouldn't even have an iPod ). And certainly close enough for anyone to tell how stiff the styles are, how dated the sounds are, and how apparently completely unable any of our owner members are here to post something that sounds like it is worth $3000, yet alone $9000...

It's simple, really... Don't try to tell me how good it would suddenly sound, were I to merely sit in front of one. SHOW ME how good it sounds when YOU sit in front of it! And, God forbid! don't post it as an MP3. No excuses, no way out... Post it as a .wav file. Heck, post it as a 24/96 .wav file. I got broadband!

The owners themselves have to persuade me to try a Wersi by showing me what THEY can do at a stock Abacus. As I said, I wouldn't drive across town to play something that made those style demos, yet alone 1600 miles to the nearest dealer... And I am absolutely convinced that you yourself would not drive that far to play another manufacturer's arranger that sounded like that, either.

YOU would want to hear something better before you made that kind of effort. So do I....

BTW, I know it's fashionable to single me out for your petty tirade, but you MIGHT have noticed that the poor opinion of Wersi's is pretty much universal on this thread. But feel free to get mad at me personally. After all, it WAS you I was criticizing, wasn't it? OOPS! No, it wasn't! It was an arranger. Taking things just a bit personally, are we?

Come on Fellas!

It's just a few short days since I said openly on this Forum that musicians are the salt of the earth, who always know how to be caring and feeling when it is needed,who always make you feel happier in a crisis.....

I guess there are always exceptions to every rule.......

------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

Crisis... What crisis? Did Russia invade Germany again? Is the artillery raining down on the Wersi factory as we speak?

It just gets up my nose when the owners of the most expensive arranger in the world go, in effect "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

Don't base your opinion on the innumerable lousy demos, trust me, it doesn't sound like that live. Of course, sorry, but I can't point you to a demo where it DOES sound good, and I can't post anything of mine that does it justice.. You'll just have to take my word for it.

Sure...

Next, you'll be trying to sell me on a pyramid scheme, or interest me in this bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn!

Sorry, but I am about as likely to go get a Wersi (or drive thousands of miles just to try one) based on someone else's WORD, than they are likely to go out and buy a G70, just because I say it's the best. If you couldn't find a G70 anywhere to try, and hated all the demos, you aren't honestly going to tell me my word is sufficient?

I'm only going by what I read on the wersi-oas Yahoo group (or should that be group therapy?), which is chock-full of reported problems with untested software, hardware incompatibilities and woeful support.

Diki,

It's not my job to sell you a Wersi or any other instrument nor would I waste my time trying. I'm merely stating a fact that you have ruled out an instrument and are calling it crap and yet you've never actually played one let alone seen one. What a way to base an opinion.

As for MP3's.... IMO they do sound like crap and I don't own an iPod. I did get one in a trade long ago but gave it to my brother as I can't stand them. I do sell MP3 files of my music online merely because that's what exists for the buying public online. Do I like it? Hell no. I wish people would buy CD's rather than MP3's but the fact remains most end users don't give a damn about sound. If they did millions of albums wouldn't sell based upon recording quality alone.

Contrary to what you state I'm not taking this personally at all. You hate the Wersi and that's fine but your hatred isn't based in fact. I guess we differ in that I'd rather base my information on facts and actual use of an instrument rather than speculation.

Would I buy a Wersi if they were cheaper?

Nope.

Ian

So, where is your site? Are there some demos on it, so we could hear how YOU play your Wersi?

I'm sorry, but just like Diki, I heard only crap style demos coming from Wersi instruments, and surely I will not go to another country to try one since they aren't traded in Italy...

If you are curious you can hear some of my music here:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=387003046

You may also look me up on iTunes, Rhapsody, Amazon MP3, Napster, Lala.com, and other music web sites.

I use my Wersi as a writing tool and to flesh out songs during preproduction. When I record I utilize real musicians playing real instruments. I play all keyboards, piano, most of the percussion, and even some drums. All other drums are samples. The tunes online predate my Wersi.

[Capitalized text was changed by me]

Somehow I had a suspicion that this might be the case, there would be some reason or other why the Wersi, being played for real, would not appear. That's a pity, it may have helped improve the appeal of this instrument.

I have been waiting all through the many discourses on the subject of Wersi on this forum for some sort of decent demo, and even now, with a golden opportunity to do so on this thread, nothing is forthcoming.

Does tend to make one think that the demos we have heard so far, are indeed the best that the Wersi can come up with.

No, I would not buy one.

Dennis


[This message has been edited by miden (edited 08-18-2008).]

I would hate to jump on the band wagon, but the above posts are correct. Wersi was maybe a great organ/keyboard some years ago. but now compared to todays keyboards very outdated. no wersi for me........

But I'm wondering this is the best for 5000-10000 dollars, oh boy......

Dennis,

The only reason the Wersi wasn't in the music I have online is because I didn't own it when I tracked the songs. Otherwise it would be all over the place in my songs.

You sure are grasping at straws saying the Wersi demos must be all that it can do and it can't sound any better. I can assure you that you'd be dead wrong but then again all you'd need to do to know for sure is try one out. There are enough Wersi owners in the US that I'm sure someone within reasonable driving distance has one. I know there are several Scala's in Florida and I believe Diki is from FL. Of course he wouldn't drive to audition a Wersi because they're crap anyway. In his humble opinion of course.

My offer is open to anyone who wants to come and see my Abacus Duo Pro in person. So far no takers, no inquiries, only those posting on the forum what a piece of dung the Wersi is.

LOL yes I would LOVE to accept that offer, there's just the small matter of about 14,000 miles!!!

Seriously though, I accept your point that you didn't have it when you recorded..Fair enough.

I must admit that the Tyros I owned did sound a whole lot better "live" than on the MP3 demos.

I do believe that you are passionate about your axe and I for one totally applaud that and respect it.

Its just some of the demos, leave me scratching my head because I KNOW that a keyboard of this price and with the resources available to it just HAS to sound better than the posted examples.

And based on them alone, and ONLY the demos, I would not buy one. Perhaps that view would change after playing it live, I don't know.

Dennis

No matter what people say about Wersi products here ........the fact remains they are still in business & have many happy customers worldwide....is everybody wrong?

Dennis,

I'll be the first to agree that most of the online MP3 demos are absolutely atrocious and had I based my buying decision on that alone, I'd never have bought a Wersi. When I was doing research prior to buying my Abacus Duo Pro I listened to all the MP3 demo's, spoke with many Wersi owners, and received a few CD's that were done entirely on the Wersi. Claudia Hirschfeld's CD was one of them and it was better than any online demo I've heard from Wersi bar none.

Like others here I didn't have local access to a Wersi so I bought mine having only heard it via online, CD, and from the recommendation of other Wersi owners. Wersi USA (Ralph and Chris) were very helpful in answering all of my questions prior to purchase and I felt confident in their service abilities. I didn't feel my purchase was a gamble because Wersi appeared to have everything I wanted in an instrument. I was truly shocked when I first received the Wersi in person because the way it sounded was far better than I could ever have imagined. The only way I can describe it is this... On my Yamaha's, Technics, Korg's, and Roland's most of the sounds needed to be tweaked to make them sound more realistic and usable. On the Wersi the sounds actually sound real so tweaking wasn't necessary. In fact it wasn't just one sound that was realistic, nearly every sound was. Much like Yamaha owners love their SA and Megavoices. Imagine having 700+ SA voices as opposed to 20 or so, would that make you happy? I'll bet it would. That's how I'd classify the Wersi. Now when I go to compose on the Wersi finding a usable sound isn't a task, I merely choose the sound I want and never think twice about needing to tweak it, manipulate it, or spend hours making it usable.

I realize naysayer's like Diki will still bash the Wersi without ever having used one, but by doing so he and others are making comments without truly knowing what the instrument actually sounds like and what it's true capabilities are. For those few willing to make the effort to audition the instrument in person and make the investment in such a fine instrument, they won't be disappointed.

Anyone in the USA who is interested in hearing a Wersi in person should call Wersi USA and see if there's an end user near you that will let you audition the instrument in person. The Wersi owners I spoke with were a nice bunch of folks and I'm certain like myself they'd gladly let prospective buyers test drive the instrument.

Anyone near me who wants to come by and audition the Wersi, by all means contact me.

DNJ,

I came from TOTL arrangers and workstation from Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Technics, and others. I also auditioned units from GEM, Ketron, Solton, and other manufacturers prior to buying the Wersi. I've been fortunate enough to own nearly every high end keyboard, synthesizer, workstation, and arranger made so it wasn't like I bought the Wersi not knowing what a TOTL instrument should sound like and what features it should have.

The funny thing about other non Wersi owners bashing the Wersi prodcuct is that they presume that others who bought the Wersi must be idiots. Who in their right mind would spend that kind of money and never complain if the instrument didn't live up to the hype? You'll see lots of non owners bashing the instrument but how many actual Wersi owners are saying its crap? If you spent $8K, $12K, $30K or more on an instrument would you keep your mouth shut and not bash the product if it was crap? I seriously doubt it. I know if the Wersi was crap I'd have been the first to chime in and say so after using it. It's not, it sounds fantastic, and I couldn't be happier with any other instrument.

If the big three come out with an instrument that sounds better and is more viable than the Wersi I'll be the first to jump ship. I have no brand loyalty, only loyalty to what instrument sounds best and does what I need it to.




[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 08-18-2008).]

Sorry for the double post.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 08-18-2008).]

Ensnareyou........

I agree with what your saying....Fran & I had to put off our trip to Wersi in Lancaster PA due to unforeseen circumstances but it is definitly on our schedule for a future trip. Good luck with your music & your Wersi.

You're kidding, right? I've lost count of the number of times Wersi has gone bankrupt. As I said above, it's an annual event, and a racing certainty that they'll be belly-up again before long.

No matter what financial problems they had in the past they are currently in business at present...shows tells you something in my book.

A friend of mine had one about twenty years ago and he tells me that they were great, but very very heavy. From what I've seen online and heard demos, I would say that maybe there more for a church application or home organ. I couldn't see myself gigging with one every weekend.

The Abacus is portable but its by no means light. Real wood, real metal, TFT touch screen display, a powerful internal amplifier and speaker system, and a nice feeling keybed makes it heavier than a plastic toy keyboard but it's about the same as a Yamaha Motif XS88 which many pro's gig with. The Wersi Ikarus is lighter if you need more portability but its also very well built so don't expect it to weigh 30-35 pounds.

I think that's nonsense. The most important selection criterium to me is how an instrument sounds. I've put up with horrible user-interfaces just because I loved the sound the thing made.

I don't visit any dealer to try any instrument if that very instrument didn't make me go "wow" while listening to an online-demo of the thing. And in Wersi's case, I laugh while listening to the demos, wondering where they found the nerve to ask so much money for a (in MY opinion) mediocre instrument.

I don't jump in my car to go and listen to the new Yamaha Tyros 3 either. Because the sound of the demos don't appeal to me. And I don't care if I _could_ make it sound better if I loaded it up with sounds, styles whatever. I'm not looking for an instrument like that.

If I were, I would buy myself a Huge Sampler-Synth to feed it with every custom sound I liked, programming arpeggiators till I keeled over.

But I don't want that.

If I am going to spend a lot of money, I am going to spend it on an instrument that makes me go "wow" when I listen to demos. That's what demos are for. To showcase the very best an instrument can do. If the demo doesn't make my jaw drop, I'll stick to the instrument I have and save a lot of money.

Heck, we even debated in this forum about the way demos are made, some suggesting that external devices were used to make it sound like you could never make it sound.

If I'm going to spend a lot of money, it will NOT be on an instrument that has some well-hidden 'potential' to be this flabbergasting wow-machine IF I take 5 months off to feed the thing with the sounds and styles I _do_ like. [/quote]



I disagree. That's just your opinion. And you're entitled to have that opinion. But if others feel that OTB a Wersi sounds like a bad-wired Casio, you can't just say that they don't know what they're talking about. They do, they heard the thing and they didn't like it.

Some say the Yamaha Tyros has great drums. I am a drummer, and in MY opinion you never heard real drums if you say Yamaha's are so great. But hey, if you like em, it's your money, be happy with it.




------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Twice in almost 40 years.

Bill

So as to clarify things because I must be seriously missing something.... I actually own a Wersi Abacus Duo Pro and know exactly what it sounds like in person. Others (including yourself) hear some online demo and therefore profess that you know that the instrument sounds like crap and has poor features and a horrible GUI. All I can say is WOW!

I think I'll go off and be a food critic and give bad restaurant reviews without having ever eaten at the restaurant only having seen pictures of the food. That's basically what you are doing.

I wouldn't profess to call the Tyros 3 crap until I heard one in person but I guess I'm different than many people here because I'd rather play the instrument first before deciding its crap. Others don't seem to feel hearing an instrument in person actually makes any difference.

FYI... I bought my Yamaha 9000 Pro even though the online demo's of it were God awful. Had I not actually seen and played it in person I'd never have plunked down all that money on one. I must have been a fool for buying the 9000 Pro because the online demos sucked and yet I still purchased one.



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 08-19-2008).]

That's alright, then. My confidence is restored.

I would appreciate it if you stuck to what I say, if you're replying to a quote of my message. I never said anything about the GUI of Wersi. You obviously have some serious blind spots when it comes to reading. And you're totally missing the point of what Diki says and what I meant to say.

Your PSR-9000 Pro demos sounded god awful, you say. What I am trying to tell you, is that EVERY demo of the Wersi that I've come across, sounded not good enough to justify the price of the instrument. TO ME.

Diki asked you to post a WAV file, since you think MP3 sounds like crap. You never did that, and meanwhile your complaining that nobody responded to your offer to let us come by your place and try the instrument.



No it's not. But if you can't see how ridiculous that comparison is, I'm afraid there's no discussion possible.



I HEARD it in person! I listened to the demos Yamaha placed online, and I've decided it doesn't blow me away. Yet. As soon as there will be more good demos available, I will listen some more. But so far, I'm am not at all convinced that it is a real improvement over what is already out there.



I don't care HOW it plays. I don't care if it has a 24" wide-touchscreen, I don't care if I can select patches by yelling at the thing... as long as I don't like the SOUND. And proper demo-MP3's tell me all I need to know about the SOUND of the keyboard.


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- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Sorry, Mr. Food Critic, but if I walk into a restaurant, and it smells like a toilet, the food smells like a toilet, and the service is lousy, and the prices are four or five times higher than the best restaurant in town (and it is almost deserted), personally, I wouldn't put a forkful in my mouth...

But, I guess you would.

Just don't expect it to be easy to persuade anyone with half a brain that, 'pay no attention to all this, it really IS delicious!'.

How long have you had the Abacus? I don't know about you, but when my G70's sound and styles were being dissed, I tossed off a quick demo of the OOTB sound that changed a lot of minds. Took me 15 minutes. What's your problem? Not too busy to post this interminable drivel about how magically, only Wersi's sound like crap on demos, but sound completely different live, but FAR too busy to back up your words with a demo?

Stock sounds, stock styles, just as you get it from the Fatherland...

You've spent more time posting on this thread than this would take.

First off you didn't walk into the restaurant you only saw it from a great distance and decided the food was crap.

Secondly you are correct, I've wasted far more of my time than its worth and I won't any longer. I have much better things to do with my life than attempt to show others that there are other choices besides the big three. It's not my job to convince you to buy a Wersi and it's clear to me that you and others have a very closed mindset.

Anyone who wants to come and audition the Wersi in person, I've made the offer numerous times and you are more than welcome.

Sure. Will tomorrow evening suit you? Oh and will you pay my airline ticket from Amsterdam Airport? I'm a little short on cash these days.

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- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Jeez...

You don't LOOK at food. You smell it, then you eat it (if it smells good enough). Sight is the least important sense for food.

Likewise with arrangers. Touch is the least important sense (other than the feel of the keybed!). First, it has to sound good. Then it has to work well. One out of two is not enough...

You haven't just wasted your time here... you've wasted everyone else's too... Bluster and bravado only get you so far. At some point or another, if you are talking about SOUND, you have to provide some. You can't describe mathematics by dancing, and you can't demonstrate sound by writing...

Perhaps, in future, all you Wersi owners could get together privately, and simply decide NOT to post most of these demos. That is, if you want people to not assume that this really IS what they sound like. If the Wersi, as you claim, really DOES sound far better than these, saving your valuable time for posting something far less joke-like MIGHT help you get the respect you so obviously crave (but can't be bothered to EARN).

Mind you, had I spent the insane amounts of money for something like the Wersi, I probably would have posted something decent long ago or just quietly slunk off in a corner to sulk after I found out I couldn't... The last thing I might want is to have someone with an arranger a third the cost of mine demo something I couldn't match.

Why don't you drive 1600 miles and try my G70? Mine is SO much better than all the other G70's. WAY better than your Wersi. You really have NO IDEA until you have sat at MY one... It really sounds nothing like any demos out there. WAY better. A whole entire different experience...

Don't believe me? Wouldn't make the effort despite my fervent pleas? Think I'm talking out my a$$?

Thought so...

The beauty of the European keyboard festivals (Besides giving yourself a holiday) is that you see virtually all the manufactures and their demonstrators, plus the ability to play them all on one site so you really can compare. (Not forgetting the concerts and various jam sessions that go on throughout)
You should really try to get to one sometime. (If you don’t want to leave the US, there is also the Bill Horn Festival in June each year)
Hope to see some of you over here soon.

Bill

Well, I'll take a stab at replying to the original topic, which departs from the norm around here lately:

I've owned Wersi's in the past. My challenges with the Wersi Brand are:

Contemporary sounds/styles - This board caters heavily to the European Market i.e. lot's of Schlager styles, Ooom Pah pah styles, Theatre Organ, accordian, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I need a more contemporary sounding board to play in the venues and to the younger guests that I do.

Poor Value proposition - for the same price of a Wersi (regardless of how it sounds) you can get an arranger and a Workstation and use them both on a gig with great results. I just can't get around this issue. The Keyboard Manu's Pack so many features into a below $3000 board these days, there is no way Wersi can compete in this area regardless of it's open design and extensibility. It just can't compete.


Reliability - I had nothing but problems with my Wersi, there were no service centers who even knew the product, let a lone could fix it. Most parts are proprietary.

Weird Design Decisions - some of the architecture and design decisions of the board were quite weird from the construction of the keybed to some of the connections. Many of the case parts were made out of WOOD, so that screws would strip out and I had to glue or use Wood Putty to fix them.

Available 3rd party support - there is not much out there in terms of forums, clubs, support sites, etc for Wersi. There is no comparison between Wersi and Yamaha in this area.

I haven't even gotten into the sound set as yet and I won't because of the firestorm it creates. You can't compare today's ROMPLERS to an Open Vsti designed keyboard. There is no comparison in the quality of sound; however I will say that convenience and safety during performing on stage or live goes to the ROMPLER in that you don't have to fiddle with software to load a sound or worry about the size of a sample taking time to load in memory or even whether it will fit in memory or not.

So in the end, I'm pretty happy with my Korg Pa2xpro. I would make some minor tweaks to it, which I'm hoping OS 2.0 upcoming in Sept will make, but all in all it is a great balance between price, performance, reliability and features. Sadly, I don't think you can make the same claim with the Wersi Line. Which is a shame because we are all rooting for the board manufacturers to hit home runs.


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Al Giordano
Visit us at ARRANGER WORLD! http://www.arrangerworld.com

Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

Al,

I'm not sure how long ago you owned a Wersi product but from what you write it appears it was some time ago and definitely not an OAS instrument. Things have changed greatly since the Wersi "kit" days. I'll go over these point by point.

The factory sounds in OAS7 are as contemporary as anything on the market today (including your PA2X Pro). In addition OAS 7 has several options for creating your own sounds which include FM, Wavetable, Modeling, Sampling, and importing AKAI samples and utilizing VST's. Should you require more sounds than the factory supplied sounds which are nearly 1 GB, all you have to do is decide which method you want to use to create or import more sounds. I owned a Korg Oasys which is about as contemporary sounding as you can get and the Wersi easily went head to head with the Oasys. OAS using OAA can directly play any Yamaha style so if you don't like the Wersi styles, load some Yamahe styles in.

The Wersi does cost more than other workstations/arrangers but there is a reason for that. Build quality, high end components, intuitive software, TFT touch screen, a phenomenal keybed, and a well laid out GUI with numerous real time controls all add to the cost. It's true you could purchase multiple arrangers and workstations to do something similar (you'd also need a laptop with extensive software to do the same things), but then you'd be defeating the purpose of what Wersi's intent was, to have an all in one solution for the performing musician and composer.

If other manufacturers offered a sub $3000 solution that could do all that the Wersi can I'd gladly jump on board and buy one. Show me one system that has the same features, sounds, GUI, real time controls, and expandability and I'll go and try it out and most likely buy it. If it exists I haven't seen it yet and I've auditioned practically every workstation/arranger available today. I've not yet seen the Tyros 3 or Ketron Audya but I will give both an audition when they become available. The Tyros 3 would most likely not be a contender due to its lack of expandability but if it sounds phenomenal, then I'd consider it even though my service experiences with Yamaha weren't great.

Reliability has never been an issue for me and I've had my Abacus Duo Pro system for many years without fault. I've gone from OAS 5, 6, and 7 and even with the upgrades I've still had no reliability issues whatsoever. Other Wersi owners I have spoken with have had similar experiences to mine. Your experience was obviously different but were you dealing with an OAS instrument?

I'm scratching my head regarding "weird design decisions". Once again I question if you've based that decision on the newer OAS instruments. Real metal, real wood, high end components, and a rock solid build are hardly what I'd call weird design decisions. The PA2X Pro uses wood sides and metal construction and you don't seem to take issue with Korg's decision on design.

Wersi actually has several forums and a fairly large user base although most are in Europe. There are several of us Wersi guys here in the USA and Wersi Music USA also exists. Ralph and Chris of Wersi USA are a great bunch of guys and I highly recommend them to anyone. All the Wersi owners I've contacted in the past have always been very helpful as well so I can't complain.

Sound wise there are many ROMPLER based arrangers and workstations that have some wonderful sounds in them. The difference being they are limited by the ROM used. The factory Wersi sounds are top notch and with the exception of say some Yamaha SA voices or specialty Roland or Korg voices which sound quite nice, there isn't much else out there that can compete with the Wersi factory sounds. Going head to head with the Wersi running a VST program no arranger or workstation is going to compete. Only the Lionstracs Mediastation has the capability to utilize VST's and arranger functions but the GUI still isn't as intuitive.

Regarding convenience and safety for live use or performing on stage you are mistaken but that's because you aren't familiar with how OAS works. In OAS 7 you load your VST sounds into banks like you would do with any custom sounds on your typical ROMPLER. On power up the VST's and sounds would load into their respective sound banks. Choosing a sound is then no different than choosing a sound on your PA2X Pro. Large samples are disk based therefore you don't wait for them to load during your performance. There is no "fiddling with software" as you mentioned. Unless you were going to actually load a new VST program from CD/DVD into the system during your performance (which I can't imagine anyone doing), then you need not worry. You wouldn't (or should I say couldn't), load a very large sample or new software on your PA2X during a performance so why would you want to on the Wersi.

The PA2X Pro is a fine instrument and I commend Korg on continually updating the software. There are limitations to which features they can add because of hardware changes not being possible though. Still, if I didn't own the Wersi the PA2X Pro is the only arranger I've heard to date that I'd even consider buying. I did find the build quality of the PA2X Pro a bit lacking compared to my Oasys and Wersi but it was much better than any arranger Yamaha offers.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 08-22-2008).]

Hi from Raleigh, NC, USA. I have a WERSI Scala in my house, running OAS 7. It belongs to my house mate. As a side note, anyone on the Eastern part of USA that might want to try it, I'm sure he'd be glad to let you have a go at it.

In our house, we have a Tyros 2, Technics, KN-7000, S900, and a few other smaller/minor keyboards, in addition to the Wersi. Oh, we have an Artisan "Organ In A Box" which is a nice machine.

Although I have logged many hours at the Wersi (both this OAS7 one and several older ones), I wouldn't choose to own one myself for what I do with my solo and band work. The build quality is excellent. They are heavy. Many of the sounds are very good. However, the price (of course) is way out of line to me. Also, the styles are marginal IMHO. Sure, I can spend $1000 and get OAA, but I could also spend a bit over $1000 and get an S900! Also, I just can't see relying on Windows at a gig - not to mention wait 2 minutes for the thing to boot up.

He has had this OAS instrument since about OAS4, and it's been a rocky road to get it to reasonably usable shape. Now it's finally almost there - although still has the so-so styles.

Anyway, those are a few of my opinions/thoughts. And yes, there is a Wersi OAS7 instrument on the east coast of the USA ...

Jim

I should add two things (1) OAA is Open Art Arranger, software-only add on that you can buy (I think it's around $1000) that lets the Wersi OAS play Yamaha (and other) styles directly. I have not tried/used it, but have read good things about it - $1000 though, to have your Wersi play Yamaha styles?!

Also - the Wersi makes a great MIDI master controller! Love the feel of its keyboards. We use it to control the Artisan plus a Roland Fantom. We do layer in some Wersi sounds, and the combination of these three is quite fantastic in sound, esp. playing orchestral music or classical organ music. When I want to play using styles, I move over to the Tyros or S900 or KN7000 though.

Jim