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#240092 - 08/17/08 09:00 PM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13681
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
OMG! I'm so tired of anyone equating sequences with FAKING! (This is not directed at you, Bill) Arranger player/users seem to be anti sequence player/users - WHAT GIVES?

I play till my hands hurt, and I use sequences, live trax, NO trax, and arranger patterns. I VERY often turn on just the drum part and play my own bass lines.

I'm so sick of the notion that "how many" notes you play is some kind of judgment of your abilities...or how many chord substitutions you know, or how many tunes you know, what you read, blah, blah, blah ...

Sorry for the rant, but I get very emotional when people trash others for doing "less" when we all take advantages of the technology AS IT SUITS US.

That last phrase is the meaning for my craziness. We need to be more aware of teh individuality of each other. Do we fault an organist who plays bass pedals, or a guitarist with a midi guitar? How about a drummer that listens to a click track?
I'll get off the soap box now, and sit quietly, but please remember ONE THING ...

We ALL use technology. It provides us with tools to do our jobs better. We can be more productive and more creative if we utilize everything in our arsenal. Please don;t be petty about how others use the same technology. Arrangers are sequencers, in some fashion, and most of us that own these kb's are STILL keyboard players. It doesn't matter if you started on accordian, organ or piano - we still need more than just two hands and two feet to make it in today's advanced world of music technology.

Play from your heart, sing from your soul, and share your talents with humility - you'll please more people than you don't...and that's the definition of success.


Yes, but this thread is mostly aimed at, and about 'entertainers' (I have a far less polite word for them) who don't actually play or sing anything at all...!

Sure, we use sequencers, arrangers, drum machines, you name it... But at the end of the day, I am sure most of us are using those tools to accompany our own playing and singing. How much or little of that you actually do is up to each and every one of us, but the thought of the technology ALONE, with no input from us at all, being passed off as 'entertainment' is just downright dishonest. I'm sorry, but I don't have a sympathetic bone in my body for these scabs

If I want to get 'entertained' by technology alone, I can turn my friggin' TV on, or fire up an iPod And it won't cost me a penny... I will NEVER, in my entire life, pay good money to see ANYONE lip-synch or play-synch.

This is because I know that, somewhere down the street, there will be a good LIVE musician playing, and they will be working at a club that has a remnant of taste and dignity, and they will be listened to by whatever dwindling section of society still cares whether the guy on stage is a fake or not. I can only hope I would bump into most of you in there, and that you are not still watching the idiot with no playing or singing ability dance around and PRETEND that they have...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 08-17-2008).]
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#240093 - 08/17/08 09:04 PM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2176
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Uncle Dave-

I don't mean to put down, indirectly any sequence users, but what do you think of the guy who buys 3rd party sequences, loads them and fires them from a keyboard he rarely plays...and passes himself off as a keyboard player?




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Bill in Dayton
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Bill in Dayton

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#240094 - 08/17/08 09:05 PM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43680
Loc: USA
Go to South East Asia and tell that dribble to all the thousands of Karaoke singers its beloved by all there. Its entertainment plain & simple.
http://www.helium.com/items/531933-why-is-karaoke-so-popular

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-17-2008).]
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#240095 - 08/17/08 10:40 PM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
Lucky2Bhere Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
Quote:
Originally posted by Songman55:
Guys, it all boils down to how well you fit the particular situation. For most of the gigs that we (The synthzoners)do, it all boils down to how well we entertain the crowd we are presented with. In certain situations, some of us are drawing our own crowds, but in the others what counts is how well we are entertaining the people. No one is counting the number of notes you play, or measuring how high a key you are singing in, the common factor is how well they are entertained. We can debate here until the cows come out, and, in a way, that is the purpose of this forum, but, for those of us who make a living at this, the bottom line is how well our audience is entertained. One two, cha cha cha.

Joe



Joe....good post! Short and sweet, direct, to the point, and.....right on the money ("the bottom line is how well our audience is entertained").

My motto used to be "give them good music and plenty of it" as Mama Leone in her restaurant in NY used to say about her food. Now I find, with certain senior groups, I'm starting to give them more patter, more humor, more stories about songs and experiences that trigger their memories, more physical movement, old time dance demonstrations (Charleston, Black Bottom, Ballin' the Jack, etc), and whatever else comes into mind at the moment.

I'll quote you again: "the bottom line is how well our audience is entertained!"

Lucky

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#240096 - 08/17/08 10:46 PM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13681
Loc: NW Florida
Doh!

Don't karaoke singers actually SING? And don't they JUST sing, and not pretend to play as well?

Karaoke singers are the essence of honesty (making absolutely no effort whatsoever to hide the fact that they are merely singing over a track) by comparison to the scab who lip synchs and play-synchs, but tries to fool the audience that it IS him playing...

Karaoke is an audience participation fun thing in the far east. Only we greedy Westerners pervert it into something dishonest and dirty, in an effort to grab the Almighty Dollar.

Don't think lip synching is a bad thing..? OK, go ahead and lip synch your next show. Save your voice, turn down the arranger. Just pretend to play... You know, with luck, they MIGHT not even notice. But stand up in the middle of the show, and to a packed house, go "OK, guys. I confess. I am merely lip synching to everything I did tonight. I didn't actually play a damn thing, and that wasn't me you heard singing or playing. Who wants their money back?"

Don't expect to make much, that night! And do it somewhere where you don't really ever want to play again
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#240097 - 08/18/08 08:49 AM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7210
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
As most of you know, I have a real problem with using arrangers at all. I don't use them if there's any alternative, but use them when that's the best way to get the job done.

That being said, my attitude is, everyone should do what they're comfortable with. I won't use a laptop, MP3's or sequences of any kind. but that's my thing. It's right for me, but "splitting hairs", since I do use the arranger for about 25% of my work, so I have no right to take a "purist" attitude.

In a perfect world, I'd play B-3 and Rhodes with a drummer and as many other players as I could justify (read afford).

In my world, I walk out when I see a laptop, sequences or lip-synching. That's where I draw the line. But again, that's just me and in no way an indication that it's the attitude everyone should have.


Russ

(P.S.) I'd stay to hear ANY and ALL of my friends here...laptop...MP3's...whatever. And I'd enjoy the visit).



[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 08-18-2008).]

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#240098 - 08/18/08 10:36 AM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill in Dayton:
Uncle Dave-
what do you think of the guy who buys 3rd party sequences, loads them and fires them from a keyboard he rarely plays...and passes himself off as a keyboard player?


Hi Bill,
I used to front a band in the 70s - never played much, but I sang my butt off. Today, if a singer wants to have that same energy behind his vocals, sequencing is a viable alternative. Personal, created, purchased - it matters not HOW the sequence is obtained, just how it is used.

I am not a fan of faking anything, but as a singer who accompanies himself in many ways - I like the options of using anything that can help me "sell" a number. Do I fake the kb? Nope - I sometimes play simple lines to trigger harmonies or fatten up a part with a nice string pad while a sequence provides the rest, but my hands, my HEART, my mind and my experience are always hard at work at every job.

Lip Syncing is something I will never do, but I refuse to relate it to any form of automated kb/drum sequences. These two elements are mutually exclusive to me.

Remember this one important item - senior centers, nursing homes etc present a different set of challenges to a performer. As life wears out the body, and taxes the memory ... sometimes it's nice just to see a smiling face come to your dining room for an hour and brighten your day. If they can bring some sunshine and happiness with them, then that's good too! I know performers who tell stories to the residents, bring pets, draw pictures, sit and hold hands with them - whatever you do to reach a "seasoned" soul will come back to you tenfold.

Let's keep our eyes on the prize...we'll be the ones in these homes one day, and I hope I get to see some performances that make me smile when that day comes.
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#240099 - 08/18/08 12:44 PM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7210
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
UD, I MIGHT break my "no nursing home home" rule for you (you are older than me, aren't you?), but I AIN'T HOLDING YOUR HAND!


Russ

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#240100 - 08/18/08 10:05 PM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Russ, am i older than YOU????? As Al Borland might say .... "I don't THINK so..."
You'd love to have me in the audience - I'd be the only one who recognizes your song selection!

Russ lay - None of the hits, ALL of the time!"

Get your tired, jazzass out to Philly b4 school starts up again!
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#240101 - 08/19/08 07:27 AM Re: For anyone who performs at Retirement Communities...
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15334
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I'm older than both of you and I AM NOT going to hold your hands!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
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