Well, it sure is handy to have all the ammunition in ONE keyboard (everyone knows what I have). Tonight, I got paid WELL for a 5 hour private party - that's a ton of songs. They allowed a mix of live and mp3. The dual sequencer was truly FANTASTIC. Oh, I did have to carry in my pen drive

I'll probably not play mp3s for quite a while again, so it's kind of nice to have the cake and eat it too.

Call me a non-pro? Who cares.

[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 07-12-2008).]

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, chas but I think you are getting a bit ahead of us here. I don't see the reference anywhere to using the mp3's, or even sequences, in a full band situation. Yes, I see them used in shows, as you rightly point out, but a regular club gig with a real rhythm section? Much rarer... About the only place I see this now, much, is bands that don't have a keyboard player at all..!

OTOH, there are outfits that are primarily singers, with maybe a couple to back them up, or just a solo. To be honest, I see this situation as much more of an extension of the OMB... an OMB with multiple singers, if you will. For this kind of act, economics dictate a reduction in the rhythm section unless you can find the rare gig that supports a six piece or more on a regular basis. Those are getting harder and harder to find these days.

But you are right... amateur hour indeed, using tracks in a full club band, IMO, too...

You might have noticed that Fran's original post was something of a paean to getting an mp3 player in the G70, Donny. This is the usual path to this particular debate, with extremist on both sides getting all worked up about a more complex issue than anyone cares to bother to think through.

But, in the end, it's nothing much to do with the technology... it's much more important how much (or little) you use it as a crutch that matters, IMO. Sure, there's a place in the world for acts that are little more than pro karaoke (ask Ashley if you don't believe me chas!), but to describe them as 'keyboard PLAYERS' is often a stretch, if playing the keyboard is actually a large part of the definition

Sorry, but one last thought here...

Go to any guitar players' forum, and ask them what they think about using tracks for the guitar part, and just faking (or playing minimally) over the top of them...

At least there's ONE group of players that haven't got lost and confused about the difference!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 07-12-2008).]

I really couldn't care how anyone makes music as long as its good ....lets face it you aint changing the world of technology....its out there people are using it in any way they can in so many different way & guess what?.... its going to get even more used, tewisted, faked & abused in the future as more gear is introduced......embrace it, accept it, use it, get over it & make some music.....the Music Train continues to roll forward big time baby....hop on-board or you'll be standing at the station waving Bye Bye! BTW Fran's Band will be fine....tonight they'll blow the roof off Da Club as usual, people dancing, drinking & having a great time down the shore!!!....
life goes on & so will the music....



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-13-2008).]

Donny, let me start by saying that I really DO respect what you do......not many of us here have the ability, talent, or personality to do it, and by all accounts, you do it very well (keeping a room full of older, musically unsophisticated, well-lubed, party-goers entertained). There is a market for that type of entertainer and entertainment and someone needs to fill it. The best of them will make a good living at it. I sure you fit into that latter category. But.....let's never confuse this (or the technology that supports it) with MUSIC.

Let's face it. This board is not about music, it's mostly about technology and how we can use it to further estrange ourselves from our musical roots, from the thrills of musical discovery and the hard-earned skill set that led us to pursue this as a profession. Phil Graham was right; we HAVE become a nation of whiners; golly gee, a 'pro' keyboard with no mp3 player, no synced lyrics , what on earth is the world coming to? How are we going to make 'music'. We have already progressed from three finger chord recognition through two finger to one finger. Well, it had to happen, the NO finger chord (aka the mp3).

The reason there are so many disagreements on this board is that usually the parties aren't talking about the same thing. Singing over an mp3 or SMF in a club has little to do with music, other than the skill of accurately matching the tune to the general level of sobriety in the club.

None of us is actually wrong. We're just talking about different things. Or at least, from a different perspective. The needs of the musician are different from the needs of the club entertainer/DJ. There are two extremes on this board and they will probably never come together on anything such as 'wish-lists', etc. There's the pure musician on one end (Capt. Russ) and the pure entertainer on the other (Donny). Everyone else is positioned somewhere right or left of center, that's why someone like Diki craves a chord sequencer but could care less about an mp3 player. One is more useful to the musician the other more useful to the entertainer.

Hey, it's all good. If keeping people on the dancefloor is your thing or getting paid well (Zuki) is your criteria for musical fulfillment, then go for it. Polite applause and the sense that your audience is actually LISTENING to what you are playing, does it for me. Like I always say, 'different strokes.......'.

chas

Well Chas...I think you have covered it all with your last post....especially with this statement ....

"None of us is actually wrong. We're just talking about different things. Or at least, from a different perspective."

Now that clears it all up....but I think its the underlying "LOOK DOWN" upon each others chosen craft when reading a post that really starts the agitation.......lets just respect each others chosen Musical Talents & Choices and enjoy the conversation shall we?.......

PS: gotta run, I have about 400 of the older, musically unsophisticated, well-lubed, party-goers waiting for me at a big outdoor Pavillion BBQ celebration this afternoon.........

l8tr

I guess I can just play my accordion tonight...but I really don't want to...

And I bet my audience hopes I play with all my tools tonight...

If the 4 Jays drop in tonight..I am sure Junior will appreciate me backing them on accordion..although it will be "pure"..

By the way..tonight I am playing on the "borrowed" G1000...and a laptop..

Chas,
Methinks you have spoken too much on this sub-subject; most of it pure crap.

I see arranger development as simply integrating items that were once separate necessities for many players who are minus a drummer, bassist, guitarist, etc. Lyric sync-ing is just using modern technology to do away with books and charts, what's wrong with that. 1 finger, 3 finger, 7 finger chords, who cares - at least you know something about chords, maybe even something about harmony and rhythm. This forum is for people who PLAY arrangers, if you're going to knock the use of the new developments maybe you should expect some criticism.

I, for one, use SMFs much more than styles, why, because it works for me. 'nuff said.

BTW - Fran I hope there IS a Gx90 coming in the near future. I also hope it's about 5 lbs. lighter than the G70

What do you think Junior will be happier to see... A guy with karaoke tracks for him to sing over, or a professional rhythm section with taste and chops and ears?

Here's the deal, Donny... you are only one step of technology from feeling the same way that perhaps chas and I do. You see, at the moment, it is possible to basically replace, or at least marginalize the accompaniment for your singing. The audience has finally got to the point that they don't care whether it's being played or not. But your vocals are still important to them, your showmanship, whatever...

But imagine a world where they don't even care if you are singing, where anyone with 'the moves' can stand in front of them, lip synch to a CD, and they are just as oblivious to it as they are to whether you are actually playing anything or not...

Not such a pretty prospect, is it? When the skill level to provide this drops to the point where ANYONE can do it to the audience's satisfaction, the pool of potential competitors for your jobs increases exponentially. In fact, just as MTV has shown us over the last 30 years or so, as soon as you start to LOOK at musical acts, rather than just listen to them, the pretty ones and the ones with more image than substance pretty much drive out the talented... Of course, being the Adonis you are, this won't worry you, Donny, but none of us are getting any younger!

But, essentially, you are one step away from the technological scrap heap like the straight ahead musicians here that you dismiss as irrelevant. One piece of technology, one change more in the public's willingness to accept artifice over reality, and you'll be sitting here like the rest of us, wondering what happened, why are they willing to accept this, and who is to blame...