http://www.youtube.com/user/hammondrebuilder

Enjoy

Bill

Thanks, Bill.

I have both. There is a definite difference when you hear real doppler from moving air...the horn on a real Leslie.

But, for one-nghters, the Nord is a delight. and, it's less than 1/2 of the price I just paid for a full XK 3C and about 10% of the weight of the original B-3.

Works for me!


Russ



[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 07-10-2008).]

They definitely don't sound the same to me, the real Leslie and B3 wins hands down. If I were doing a live show the Nord would suffice just fine and the audience wouldn't have a clue. If I were recording an album I'd use the B3 and the Leslie and not even consider the Nord for that type of application.

If you're lucky enough to have or be able to afford and keep a B3 and Leslie, why even discuss others. If not, then the B3 SOUND and feel become determining factors. Of course features, price, size and weight are important too. For my budget and set-up the XK-1 does it for me.

Two different Hammond B3's would sound different, too... and somebody would prefer one over the other!

There are some interesting points about his comparison... Firstly, the idea of putting a couple of studio monitors in roughly the same place as the edges of the horn's throw. This is obviously ideal for getting as close as possible to the separation a real Leslie has, but unless you are running a rig expressly for this purpose (no other keyboards at all), they are much closer together than the average stereo keyboard rig, or most decent sized studio's nearfields. Even my little home studio's HR824's are about 4 1/2' apart or more. This tends to make Leslie sims a little too 'wide' to get a really accurate recreation, and a stereo PA? Forget about it!

This is why I wish, on all keyboards with a stereo Leslie sim, that they had a 'width' control to the stereo spread of the sound. In fact, for any stereo samples (piano in particular) a 'width' control would be of enormous help. Sure, if you are recording just one thing at a time, or ONLY using the B3 sim on your arranger/WS, you can pan the two channels a little closer, but if you are doing a show from the one keyboard, obviously, collapsing the stereo image to get a better Leslie sim also collapses everything else (including the all-important reverbs and choruses).

So... pretty please, with bells on it - can we have 'width' controls for stereo sounds on our TOTL gear? My ancient K2500 has had it for donkey's years...

The other thing about the comparison is - I wish he had spent more time matching the ramp up and down times for the low rotor... It makes a VERY noticeable difference between the two. I am sure, if matched more closely, what is already a very close comparison would sound even closer. Maybe close enough to fool more of us.

And personally, I think the Chorus section is more of a difference between the two than the Leslie. Again, if it is adjustable on the Nord, he MIGHT have been able to get it closer to his particular B3 (he doesn't say much about the model, age or mods of it).

There's one last thing he does that I think helps the sim out bigtime, and is something that more of us could do to help our B3 clones... He distant mikes the monitors. In other words, what you hear has been thrown around the room he is in as much as the real Leslie. This is something many clone users either forget, or their hardware doesn't allow them to do, but you NEVER hear a real Leslie up close and dry as a bone. Even when some reverb is added afterwards, the real Leslie has some of the 'room' sound captured by the mikes, and this changes the sound remarkably.

For those of us with clones, remembering to run the sim through a small room (or medium small) reverb FIRST, and THEN adding the larger reverb (if you use any at all) can make a clone Leslie sound FAR more like the real thing. Or even, if recording, try what he has done... set up a stereo rig close together, and distant mike it in a lively-ish room. Leslie nirvana!

Now, maybe if only someone would be this careful, and do a direct C1 to XK-3c comparison, this would help put to rest the 'Clone Wars' and we Jedi can go back to our homes!

Thanx they both sound wonderful for sure....
would love to hear a Whiter Shade Of Pale Comparison with the B3/C1 & the G70.....

B3 wins handsdwon ofcourse, but it's definately the closest clone so far.
He should have set the Nord to the same pitch as the B3 before recording. The Nord is a fraction higher on pitch.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The differences between players is going to be much more significant than the differences between these two instruments. Also, the C1 is trying to to simulate the sound of a B3; The B3 isn't trying to simulate the sound of anything. How often does one compare a fake Rembrandt to the original. The original is going to 'win' every time.

My point is, aside from being completely subjective, these comparisons have little value (for deciding a purchase) unless other clones are included. The B3 should be the benchmark as we compare the clones for authenticity of sound, weight, cost, portability, aesthetics, and any other qualities that need to be considered for your personal requirements.

Also, remember that you're comparing a clone with built in sim, to a B3 AND Leslie. Do the comparison with the B3 plugged into one of the old PR20/40 Hammond cabinets and then see which sound you prefer.

And for those who feel a need to cover the Animals or any other Vox/Farfisa classics, try that on your '65 B3.

And again, let's not forget the importance of the player. Put me on a B3 w/Leslie and Joey D. or Tony Monaco on the C1 and , trust me, in a blindfold test, you'll pick the C1 . Like I said in a previous post, if you're not an organ player, it's not going to make two cents worth of difference (hint - save your money.....and your back).

chas

I do agree with you chas, and there's a good reason I have a VR 760, no problem to clone the vox/farfisa's/rhodes etc...

Fred

I agree with just about every poster..

Fred, I think the VR760 is still hard to beat...