SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
Page 8 of 10 < 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 >
Topic Options
#237239 - 07/29/08 06:37 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
kla4 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 302
Loc: NL
Thank you!

Top
#237240 - 07/29/08 09:31 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9227
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
Thank you!


Same old Roel..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



Top
#237241 - 07/29/08 10:26 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
'Being a reasonably accomplished pro audio engineer I can confidently say that given appropriate recording techniques the memory size of the samples does matter. If you believe that Yamaha can make a sample with a few Megabytes that rivals one of several Gigabytes you are sadly mistaken. The reason manufacturers use lower amounts of ROM isn't because they can squeak phenomenal sounds out of a few MB of ROM, it's because it's cheaper for them to do so.

I welcome anyone to bring their Tyros I, II, or 3 (when they get one) over and sit it side by side my Wersi factory sounds or running a large sample VST library and see how well your keyboard fares. I already know which one is going to come out ahead and it won't be the Yamaha. I've owned the best Yamaha has to offer so it's not like I don't have a frame of reference to go by.

I'm curious whether you've actually played a Wersi OAS 7 instrument or a Mediastation? Given your statements I'd venture that you haven't. The Mediastation sounds far better than you and others think it does. Sure the styles on the Mediastation aren't similar to Yamaha's but sound wise the Mediastation is far better than you can imagine.

Wersi has an extremely well integrated and stable OS and I find it far more intuitive than Yamaha's. Even with the numerous features the Wersi has that the Yamaha's lack the Wersi is still a piece of cake to operate. Try one and see for yourself.'

Ensnareyou i respect your view but your post makes no sense. Firstly you post links to demos done on completely different products than the wersi that you are promoting to make the point that the wersi sounds better than any top end arranger. Thats just nonsense. Saying that it could sound better with professional studio work, and hiring pro musicians to play the styles would be more accurate. Right now i challenge you or anyone with a wersi or a mediastation to come up with a demo produced by the instrument and either by the manuifacturere or a wersi enthusiast that competes with the yamaha or any other top end main arranger manufacturer. Your a sound engineer so you will know that having access to the best sounds in the world does not instantly make the best sounding arranger instrument. I am not even going to debate this point with you because anyone that has spent any time at all using sounds from different sound sources will understand the complexities in making those sounds balance and blend. Secondly the sounds you have promoted GigaStudio, Halion, or Kontakt do not come shipped with either wersi or Mediastation and can be purchased separately and played through a lap top or in a studio without buying a £6000-8000 piece of hardware. However purchaseing these sounds still cannot make your hardware sound better than a professionally produced style from yamaha, korg or Roland. if you doubt that then please provide ONE DEMO OF A STYLE ON EITHER WERSI OR MEDIATSTION THAT COMPETES WITH A T2. PA1X/PA2X OR G70. JUST ONE ! By the way it has to be a manufactureres or enthuiasts style , not a cloned style from another manufacturers stable !!

You say that the mediastaion sounds better than many of us thinks its does. Why do you think that is ? Let me give you a hint. Every demo i have heard from the manufactures (Wersi or Mediastation) sounded inferior to even mid range products from the main three. We are talking very poor style programming , poor balance and generally lack lustre demos.

For example the Korg pa series has 4 variations per style. I think everyone knows that but what makes the styles so live and responsive is the fact that each variation has up to 6 Chord variations programmed into it. So depending on the chords that you play you can achieve up to 6 different accompaniment variations within one style variation ! its not just maths either. Korg actually do programme these chord variations in a musical and flowing/intergrated way. I dont know if Wersi goes into this kind of detail in style programming but you can see how having access to Giga sounds or other VST's sound sources still wont get you to the level of detail that maufacturers of these machines go into to produce great sounding arranger instruments. I for know for sure Mediastation do not. Maybe you can tell us about the wersi ?

The one point i agree with you is the use of studio produced demos that no pro could do on the keyboard itself. Its a dirty tactic to sell keyboards .

Top
#237242 - 07/29/08 11:20 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4906
Loc: English Riviera, UK
It seems someone didn’t read my earlier post.

If you want to enter into childish “Mine is better then yours” or”I like My styles better then anybody else’s so the rest mush be rubbish” then start ANOTHER thread and DON’T hijack this one.

This thread is about Tyros 3, including PERSONAL opinions of the sounds so far. NOTE the word “PERSONAL” which some people seem to have difficulty understanding. (I suggest some of you get a dictionary out and look it up)

Thanks for reading

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#237243 - 07/29/08 01:39 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
chony Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1247
Loc: New York
Mr Lionstracs,

What good is your keyboard if you won't make it available?

I'm still waiting to hear from your when there will be a demo model I can try around New York...

Chony

Top
#237244 - 07/29/08 02:30 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:
I did not say Yamaha used external sound modules to try and deceive anyone. The sounds generated in the Tyros 3 demos are sounds from the Tyros 3. How those sounds are played is an entirely different story though. Contrary to what you believe the factory demos are recorded using computer based sequencers such as Logic, Cubase, etc. using live musicians triggering MIDI fitted instruments i.e MIDI Guitar, MIDI wind instruments, Drum triggers and using the Tyros as a sound source. "Why should they" you ask? The reason for doing so is that it's far easier to record a real sounding guitar, drum, or sax part by actually playing a real instrument with a MIDI converter triggering the samples of the Tyros 3 (or any other instrument for that matter). Nearly every manufacturer is guilty of using these techniques and while it may be the sounds from the actual keyboard (or most often a prototype sound module being triggered), the manner in which the demos are played and recorded is quite deceptive. Few people are even aware these techniques are employed and for good reason.
If you believe that even the most skilled keyboardist can mimic these demos by playing them live I'd like to see them do it. That would have to be one phenomenal musician and a near impossible task even for the truly gifted. An average keyboardist wouldn't even stand a chance of pulling it off. Sometimes what sounds so simple is much harder than one can imagine.


I don't know...This guy does alright without the need for any midi guitar or wind controllers!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfswO0jQOfc&feature=related

Top
#237245 - 07/29/08 03:36 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4906
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Miden
Have a look in the Yamaha manual and sales blurb, and you will find all the Megavoices have been recorded using the appropriate Midi controller. (Midi Guitar Pickup for Guitars, Midi wind controller for wind instruments etc)
Personally I couldn’t care less how it’s done, providing it gives the impression of the real instrument when I play it on a keyboard. (Sounds still have a long way to go, which is why there is still a selection of keyboards out there, and it is still the individuals choice as to which personally gives them most pleasure)
I am sure glad everybody is different. (Diversity is the spice of life)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
#237246 - 07/29/08 05:27 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
I think the main point Yamaha is emphasizing with the Tyros3 sounds is the sounds themselves, and not necessarily the chops (or method) behind the playing. Whether it's done by means of a MIDI guitar, Cubase, or Peter Baartmans , Yamaha is trying to get the listener to hone in on the "sound" that the Tyros3 is producing, whether AC.Grand Piano, Irish Bag Pipe, or Jazz Guitar, or whatever. They of course want the sounds to sound as natural as can be to their native environment i.e. the real instrument itself being played by a real person, but if it can't be humanly achieved they need to fudge a little (or a lot ) to get it done needless to say. And it costs Yammie a whole lot less too than if they had hired world class musicians to attempt to do it. If the Jazz Guitar was done by a real person using a MIDI guitar, the session player would have commanded a premium price for his work and must have cost Yammie a pretty penny just for that one demo alone. More than likely though is was done by skilled software engineers using Cubase.

Yamaha has not really deceived anybody by doing this though. They have put up information saying as much i.e. that the demos can't necessarily be interpreted as something the user himself can actually accomplish when playing the instrument himself - that is, whatever the keyboard instrument might happen to be; in this case the Tyros3.

Giving the listener the opportunity to hear the sounds at their professional playing best can give him or her the inspiration and desire to try and attain those same ideals. Of course, 99.99999% of the population could never really attain the precise perfection that these demos demonstrate. Nevertheless practice does make perfect; and trying to attain those goals can only go in helping the player's own natural playing ability in the long run. In other words, it may be a possibility that someone on this very forum could be the next Peter Baartmans or even exceed Mr. Baartman's playing ability if he or she has the desire and dedication (and the chops) to attain or exceed that specific goal and ideal.

Another thing. We need to lighten up a tad because, as we all know, Nigel is looking over our shoulders and we don't want to upset him to the point of doing something rash now, do we?

As far as the sounds on the T3.. The AC Piano - is 'pretty good', the Irish Bag Pipe - 'I guess you need to be a full blooded Irishman to appreciate it to its fullest extent eh?' . I would rather have had a brilliant Scottish Bag Pipe sample though since it is the sound that is so well known throughout the world, instead of what they gave the T3. And finally the Jazz Guitar - 'sounds pretty good also, although nothing new or beyond what the T2 already brings to the table in my humble opinion. I would need to hear all of them in person before I make my final determination of their real worth though. Same goes for all the other voices in the new yammie as well.

Best,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

Top
#237247 - 07/29/08 10:50 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
All I got to say is... the first day I hear some demos by the Wersi or MS that totally blows away the T2 demos, or my G70, I'll go straight out and buy one. After over two years of listening to the same drivel, over and over and over again, all I can say is...

I still got my G70

Top
#237248 - 07/29/08 11:17 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4906
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Diki
What’s a Wersi got to do with a Tyros 3 thread? (Start another thread if you want to talk Wersi)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

Top
Page 8 of 10 < 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 >

Moderator:  Admin 



Help keep Synth Zone Online