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#237229 - 07/29/08 03:12 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
Ensnareyou:
It's truly shocking what you are trying to tell here! Perhaps Wersi uses the methods you describe but there is one thing I know for sure : The Yamaha Tyros(x) demo's are played without external instruments, sequencers of whatever.
Why should they? ..... this is the way Tyros3 sounds and is playable for all real keyboardists.

It's obvious you are a Wersi-fan, but your statement 'Wersi can do it much better' makes me smile.... please wake up!



Agree with Ensnareyou!
Listen many time the new T3 guitar demo..is a totally sequencing song, drumkits sounds always flat, the same like the T2...

Try to listen better when is chaning the chords and the drum fills...the Strings pad remain with the same chord, all the notes ON and the Guitar continue make the soloist.. No possible on style player...or the numebr 3 mean that you have to use 3 hands??
Wait to play with your hands this same demo and then we can believe if was really a true style.
Wake UP guys...

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#237230 - 07/29/08 03:45 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
Ensnareyou:
It's truly shocking what you are trying to tell here! Perhaps Wersi uses the methods you describe but there is one thing I know for sure : The Yamaha Tyros(x) demo's are played without external instruments, sequencers of whatever.
Why should they? ..... this is the way Tyros3 sounds and is playable for all real keyboardists.

It's obvious you are a Wersi-fan, but your statement 'Wersi can do it much better' makes me smile.... please wake up!



You clearly misread my previous post. I did not say Yamaha used external sound modules to try and deceive anyone. The sounds generated in the Tyros 3 demos are sounds from the Tyros 3. How those sounds are played is an entirely different story though. Contrary to what you believe the factory demos are recorded using computer based sequencers such as Logic, Cubase, etc. using live musicians triggering MIDI fitted instruments i.e MIDI Guitar, MIDI wind instruments, Drum triggers and using the Tyros as a sound source. "Why should they" you ask? The reason for doing so is that it's far easier to record a real sounding guitar, drum, or sax part by actually playing a real instrument with a MIDI converter triggering the samples of the Tyros 3 (or any other instrument for that matter). Nearly every manufacturer is guilty of using these techniques and while it may be the sounds from the actual keyboard (or most often a prototype sound module being triggered), the manner in which the demos are played and recorded is quite deceptive. Few people are even aware these techniques are employed and for good reason. Like I said before... what you don't know won't hurt you according to the manufacturers.

If you believe that even the most skilled keyboardist can mimic these demos by playing them live I'd like to see them do it. That would have to be one phenomenal musician and a near impossible task even for the truly gifted. An average keyboardist wouldn't even stand a chance of pulling it off. Sometimes what sounds so simple is much harder than one can imagine.

Wersi did in fact use Cubase for many of their demos but they aren't trying to trick you by saying they don't. Cubase was actually part of the OAS software all the way up until OAS 7. After that Wersi developed their own internal sequencing software. I'm sure many of the OAS 7 demos are still recorded using Cubase.

My reference to Wersi being able to do it much better wasn't out of line. Even if the Tyros 3 has 500MB of sound ROM that ROM has to be spread out for hundreds and hundreds of sounds therefore breaking down to maybe a MB or two per sound if that. The Wersi has nearly 1 GB of factory sounds and using VST's I can utilize sounds that employ 1GB or more for a single sound. If you believe the Tyros 3 can outperform a disk based sample player then give GigaStudio, Halion, or Kontakt a listen and see how well the Tyros sounds hold up in comparison. Here are a few examples:
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/everybodyhappy.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/WhiteGrandDemo9.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/Restitution.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/WhiteRock.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WP/WorrasProphetDemo1.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BG/Adagio_Cantabile_Mid.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BOB/BiggaGiggasBobDemo1.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BOB/BiggaGiggasBOBDemo5.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229778.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229777.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229788.mp3



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 07-29-2008).]

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#237231 - 07/29/08 04:35 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
kla4 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 302
Loc: NL
You seem to think the memory-size for sounds makes the difference in quality ? ... I doubt that very much.

The quality of the samples, the SA2, the megavoices, the excellent programmed musical styles, the ease of use, the stable OS etc..... they together make a great machine.

In my view neither the Mediastation nor the Wersi can offer these combined in one box.
Especially the MS 'shines'in non-musical-feel styles, unprofessional recorded demos and Liontracs persists in telling what is wrong with ALL other brands

Sorry guys..... I was not able to suppress my feelings this time

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#237232 - 07/29/08 05:00 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4906
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Stay on topic, the "mine is better then yours" attitude serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237233 - 07/29/08 05:02 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40918
Excactly what does Wersi have to do with T3 Coming?

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#237234 - 07/29/08 05:07 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
You seem to think the memory-size for sounds makes the difference in quality ? ... I doubt that very much.

The quality of the samples, the SA2, the megavoices, the excellent programmed musical styles, the ease of use, the stable OS etc..... they together make a great machine.

In my view neither the Mediastation nor the Wersi can offer these combined in one box.
Especially the MS 'shines'in non-musical-feel styles, unprofessional recorded demos and Liontracs persists in telling what is wrong with ALL other brands

Sorry guys..... I was not able to suppress my feelings this time


Being a reasonably accomplished pro audio engineer I can confidently say that given appropriate recording techniques the memory size of the samples does matter. If you believe that Yamaha can make a sample with a few Megabytes that rivals one of several Gigabytes you are sadly mistaken. The reason manufacturers use lower amounts of ROM isn't because they can squeak phenomenal sounds out of a few MB of ROM, it's because it's cheaper for them to do so.

I welcome anyone to bring their Tyros I, II, or 3 (when they get one) over and sit it side by side my Wersi factory sounds or running a large sample VST library and see how well your keyboard fares. I already know which one is going to come out ahead and it won't be the Yamaha. I've owned the best Yamaha has to offer so it's not like I don't have a frame of reference to go by.

I'm curious whether you've actually played a Wersi OAS 7 instrument or a Mediastation? Given your statements I'd venture that you haven't. The Mediastation sounds far better than you and others think it does. Sure the styles on the Mediastation aren't similar to Yamaha's but sound wise the Mediastation is far better than you can imagine.

Wersi has an extremely well integrated and stable OS and I find it far more intuitive than Yamaha's. Even with the numerous features the Wersi has that the Yamaha's lack the Wersi is still a piece of cake to operate. Try one and see for yourself.

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#237235 - 07/29/08 05:14 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
yes, really stable OS: http://youtube.com/watch?v=EjS_BJdHh9E
just look in google how may tyros have OS issue and yamaha seem not interested for make update, they prefer to exit with a new model.
If you remember the first tyros 2 shipment in germany arrival broken to the costumers with a fatal error...maybe you forget the old story...

Free to buy what you better like, but don't me make me laugh when you compare the tyros ROM soundfont to the all other bigger company like Native instruments, Gigastudio and so on..

SA is available in some way under gigastudio too, so I don't who really have discover the hot water.
Tyros sounds really good for what they can offer in one embedded system.
Enjoy ( and buy) what you play.

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#237236 - 07/29/08 05:30 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
kla4 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 302
Loc: NL
Keep in mind this is a 'General Arranger Keyboard Forum' and NOT a (Giga)sampler (tank) or VST plugin forum .... totally different products.
The quality of Native Instruments plugs is outstanding, but no 'earning' of Lionstracs at all, just a 3rd party product.

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#237237 - 07/29/08 05:31 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40918
Yes and TYROS 3 will out sell all others combined worldwide Dedicated legions of loyal fans are preparing to purchase as we speak!
enjoy what you play

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-29-2008).]

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#237238 - 07/29/08 05:45 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
Keep in mind this is a 'General Arranger Keyboard Forum' and NOT a (Giga)sampler (tank) or VST plugin forum .... totally different products.
The quality of Native Instruments plugs is outstanding, but no 'earning' of Lionstracs at all, just a 3rd party product.


You are right, then remember also that the mediastation is one arranger too.
Is not my fault if now we can hosting in realtine 10 ASIO applicaction and the native Instruments Komplete Synth (demo version, ready to register)are now installed in the code OS as default host engines.
It mean that now I'm able to talk about styles and 3rd party ASIO/VST products in the "General Arranger keyboard forum" too.

Is not my fault if tyros can drive only the internal ROM soundfonts and limited only on this arranger forum.


[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 07-29-2008).]

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