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#235713 - 06/09/08 04:53 AM Market research - and a winner is...
Okram Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 2
There has been a lot of speculation about market share of current popular arrangers.

May be funny, but I just wanted to see how many hits I get in Google or YouTube. Of course, strictly non scientific, but I find results interesting. I tried to be as neutral as possible so I used different names, like G70, g-70, "g 70" etc. Here are the results:

Google:

1. Yamaha s900 (686.000)
2. Korg Pa800 (465.000)
3. Yamaha Tyros (309.000)
4. Roland G-70 (189.000)

YouTube videos:

1. Korg Pa800 (1.100)
2. Yamaha Tyros (653)
3. Yamaha s900 (159)
4. Roland G-70 (110)

Feel free to comment.

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#235714 - 06/09/08 07:35 AM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6428
Sadly all those youtube video's from PA800 are oriental style... This only indicates that there is a large orientall community making PA800 video's and that Korg is very popular in the orient...
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#235715 - 06/09/08 07:40 AM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 38289
Loc: NJ
Oriental? you mean Arabic, European, Indian etc etc ....you'd be lucky to find an American You Tube PA800 demo on You Tube, but it helps you understand the overall Aranger KB market WORLDWIDE!
....

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=korg+pa800&search_type=&aq=f

Tells ya something eh?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-09-2008).]

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#235716 - 06/10/08 12:05 AM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Okram Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 2
yes, one of the conclusions may be that worldwide market shares of some keyboards are sometimes underestimated.

Korg is a typical case. Maybe it is true what they say on their home page that
"Pa80 is the most successful Professional Arranger keyboard ever produced". Maybe Pa800 is also going this way.

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#235717 - 06/10/08 12:44 AM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Nesh Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 25
Loc: Jerusalem, Israel
Indeed here in the middle east most popular keyboards are KORG, Ketron and GEM that support Arabic scales and oriental styles. They are also common in the balkans and near east, and in Germany where a large Turkish community exists.

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#235718 - 06/10/08 07:13 AM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Absolutely is true according to a friend that is WELL connected to an executive in japan at Korg.

WORLDWIDE...Korg is the best selling arrangers.
Lots of PA's are being sold worldwide. Lots more than you would realize. (middle East etc is huge)

Yamaha is #2...

To me all that doesn't matter... I want what works best for my kind of music and my kind of playing. And is the most fun!

I don't play professionally right now so I just love to play the music I truely love to hear..I come from Organ playing so I love the 2 manual approach (which works with my T2 and PA2XPRO fine).

I'm glad to see Korg, Yamaha etc doing well in worldwide sales... If they are profitable we keep getting better & better stuff each cycle!

Lee
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#235719 - 06/10/08 08:43 AM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 38289
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Nesh:
Indeed here in the middle east most popular keyboards are KORG, Ketron and GEM that support Arabic scales and oriental styles. They are also common in the balkans and near east, and in Germany where a large Turkish community exists.


Now theres your answer when you look for korg demos on You Tube

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#235720 - 06/10/08 06:48 PM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Shame no-one makes an arranger specifically for the US market (and UK, I guess ).

Enough with the shlager! Where's the factory zydeco styles? Where's my bank FULL of Motown? Where's the Philly sound? Where's all the second-line?

I think that, if they styled US arrangers as carefully as they style middle eastern and Balkan ones, they would sell a BOATLOAD more of them over here. They can say 'well there's no market for them over here' all they want, but if they keep voicing and styling them for Europe, what do they bloody well expect?

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#235721 - 06/10/08 07:10 PM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
hitman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 325
Loc: VA/ USA
Well I play balkan music ( ex-Yugoslavian), and the PA800 does not cut it. It is sad, but I have to say that a lot of people trashed the balkan music with middle eastern style. Anyways, I could write for days about how upset I am that people are mixing up Balkan and Eastern Europen music.

Diki, there is little Balkan about Korg pa series.
KORG pa-series is a middle eastern keyboard period!

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#235722 - 06/10/08 08:35 PM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 38289
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Shame no-one makes an arranger specifically for the US market (and UK, I guess ).

Enough with the shlager! Where's the factory zydeco styles? Where's my bank FULL of Motown? Where's the Philly sound? Where's all the second-line?

I think that, if they styled US arrangers as carefully as they style middle eastern and Balkan ones, they would sell a BOATLOAD more of them over here. They can say 'well there's no market for them over here' all they want, but if they keep voicing and styling them for Europe, what do they bloody well expect?



simple problem = no factory style libraries after the purchase = boring keyboards for many = bad conversions & more good factory styles means keeping the KB & that = no profit for the manufacturers when they try selling the next models...

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#235723 - 06/10/08 11:50 PM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I hate to suggest it, but I think it is LONG past time for the manufacturers to copy protect their styles. At least they would then have an incentive to make more styles AFTER the initial release, which they sure as hell don't, right now, with us trading styles around like bubblegum cards...

No profit... no new styles It's as simple as that.

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#235724 - 06/11/08 01:26 PM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Diki,
I agree completely..I would certainly be willing to pay a reasonable amount for GOOD styles from the Mfg. after the sale. Good styles that work for the music I like to play.

Also, I too wish they would privide a US vesion..YES lots of motown etc, etc.

One major reason I buy an arranger is the styles. I want to pick a song and then quickly find a style to play it with. I don't have the time or the talent to build excellant styles myself, if I did I would not buy an arranger, I would do it with a top end PRO synth. Probably Kurzweil as their acoustic sound is certainly #1.

Lee
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Lee S.

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#235725 - 06/11/08 01:43 PM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 38289
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I hate to suggest it, but I think it is LONG past time for the manufacturers to copy protect their styles. At least they would then have an incentive to make more styles AFTER the initial release, which they sure as hell don't, right now, with us trading styles around like bubblegum cards...

No profit... no new styles It's as simple as that.


Diki this is getting ridiculous that I am agreeing with you all the time now ....
What your saying definitly makes allot of sense my UK, Beach Playing, G70 KB artist!
Years ago proprietary styles was the way it was.....when You bought a arranger the styles it used were system exclusive & couldn't be shared by other manufacturers units....I liked it like that & there were many libraries of styles & sounds being created for different genres too which was nice... Styles are the engine of an arranger, WE NEED MANY MORE FACTORY QUALITY STYLES in every category that cannot be converted which most sound terrible anyway vs the factory ones. Ahhhh whats the use!

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#235726 - 06/11/08 02:22 PM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4748
Loc: English Riviera, UK
If manufactures got together and created a standard style format, (Similar to the GM Midi format) 3rd party manufactures would only have to concentrate on 1 format not many, (Much cheaper to create standardized styles) and which would then allow the user to easily modify the styles (Just like its easy to modify GM Midi) to make them their own.
Just a thought

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 06-11-2008).]
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#235727 - 06/11/08 05:39 PM Re: Market research - and a winner is...
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I'm sorry, Abacus, but I don't believe this to be the answer. There is just something about a style that is created specifically for the sounds in a particular arranger that cannot be achieved with a translation (which a generic style format would mean ALL the styles were 'translations'!

Take a listen to how you yourself adjust your playing to different versions of the same sound, then realize this is what the great style makers are doing, also. What they played works BEST on the sound they heard when they played it (if it is any good in the first place)....

Multi-layer drumkit sounds is even more critical for this issue. The drummer (or programmer) programmed the part JUST SO, so that the accents and dynamics work perfectly. Put that in another keyboard, with a different kit and layers that change in different places (if at all), and suddenly you have a TOTALLY different performance.

Sorry, but a standard style format works no better than GS, XG or GM. Sure, it'll stop a tuba playing a bass guitar part, but it never reflects the EXACT intention of the composer until played on the EXACT same gear...

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