What do you guys use for your drawbar needs ? In reading reviews, it appears the Hammond XK3C is close to the top. The other question is, if I don't care about grunge, and overdrive, do I need the latest at $2295. The Leslie sim is the most important.

Bernie

I wrote a long reply and lost it and didn't feel like trying to reconstuct it. Sorry.

chas

Hi Chas
What about a short one ?

Due to several circumstances, I haven't tried the Nord C1, but I have tried the Hammond XK1 which has the same rotary simulation as the XK3c.

The XK1 has a very accurate sim in my opinion...closest you'll get without the actually "moving air" of a real Leslie.

It's less expensive than the XK3c and has a different keybed, but it sounds pretty well identical to my ears.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 06-09-2008).]

I have the XK-1 and LOVE IT! It is a great single keyboard, no frills B3 sibling. It has presets and a couple electronic "pianos" that can get you thru in a pinch, but basically it's just a great organ. You can split the keyboard and play right, left and/or bass. Great keyboard for under $1500.

Ok, short version. I don't feel as though this question can be answered without your detailing it's intended use (studio,live performance) and what's most important to you (cost, weight, sound authenticity, etc.). Also, is softsynth (NI B4, etc.) a possible consideration? Is this going to be the primary instrumental voice? If so, is dual-manual or real drawbars important to you? Is there an absolute MAX budget? Are you bothered by the color red? Ok, scratch the last one .

I just can't see anyone giving you an accurate or even educated recommendation without these questions being answered.

chas

Chas
I am rushing out to my band gig, but will attempt a short answer. I need it as primary backing in the band of about 20. We play to seniors(150-200). Mostly big band and standards. I solo one verse(4), piano solo(with my backing), and I play the other two with the band. I use the G70, which is pretty good. I have Receptor, which is a little more authentic(B4), but a pain to carry in large case. The budget is open, but I don't want to spend a lot for features I don't need. I do want a very good Leslie effect with perc, slow and fast speed. Rock organ and overdrive not used much.

Hope this helps.

Bernie

Unarguably, The NI B4 II is the most versatile and best sounding B3 simulation available...

Hook up a laptop with this Vsti and some decent midi sound interface, and it'll cost you less then $1000 including hardware and software...

Then all you need is a hardware interface for your drawbars, they ain't to expensive either.

I use a C-1, Electro or XB 2 with either a Motion sound top rotor box or an Motion Sond 145 on my one-nighters. I have a B-3 and 147 RV which I leave on one of my house jobs. Use it about 30 times a year there. Getting used to the drawbar (simulation) set-up on the Nords, but like the traditional feel of the drawbars on the XB-3 better.

Real doppler is critical to me for a natural B-3 sound (by the way, glad the G-70 is working for you!).


Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 06-09-2008).]

I could load my B4 into my laptop as a stand alone, maybe. I don't have a host. It is a 2006 HP Pavilion(1.8). It is a possibility.

Thanks
Bernie

Hi Russ

I know you have the real equipmet. I am just a little guy. Thanks, I really like the G70, but I am also a perfectionist re sound. Passable is not good enough, although for an arranger, it sounds pretty good. Most people wouldn't know the difference, but, I do.

Bernie, aren't the G70 drawbars good enough for you? Rather than invest in another keyboard or lug around a laptop, I feel the G70 drawbars are pretty damn good; so is the leslie sim. I owned a G70 and got rid of it for its weight and crappy vibrato/chorus section with the drawbars. But other than that, the G70 does drawbars excellently. As I said, the XK-1 is a killer organ, as good sounding as any XK-3 or C1. If you're just buying a board to have a new board, well that's your business. But a G70 should give you all the B3 sounds you want without having to add to you rig or subtract from your pocketbook. Good luck.

If you are willing to haul around another keyboard as well as the behemoth G70, I'd say go for the XK-1. If not, either the XM2 and drawbar module (or forget the drawbar section if you don't mess with them live, just use presets), or the Nord Electro Rack and drive it from a G70 Part. This would gain you some killer Rhodes, Wurli and Clavinet sims,, too (as well as a Farfisa/Vox for those sixties oldies!).

The only thing I wouldn't really counsel is the laptop B4 thing, unless you are VERY comfortable with a laptop onstage, and don't mind the fiddly little wires coming in and out of it, external MIDI interfaces and soundcards to hook up and break down, and the basic fragility of the whole thing. It can and does work great for many people, but you should be aware of he issues...

Finally... Why not pull the Muse from the big rack, and get it a little rack all it's own? That strikes me as the cheapest, most reliable solution...

Thanks, everyone, for your advice. The G70 was pretty good,today, after I tweeked it, but no cigar. I quess I am spoiled by the real thing. My first Hammond was model A( not A 100), followed by a new B in 1967, and four more Hammonds after that. Maybe, I will bring the Receptor again, and see. The case has to be bigger for cooling, but a three space case would be better than my twelve.

I am not sure the Hammond unit would be that much better than the B4 program.

Bernie

Bernie,
I understand when something just doesn't play or sound right to fit one's needs. You are obviously looking for a particular sound. Might I add that often a sound goes with a particular keyfeel. Get those two together and you'll have your winning organ sound. For me software is not the way to go live. You may have different experiences, but a keyboard that has the B3 stuff already going for it would be my route. - What about a Korg CX3? I heard Larry Goldings play one at the James Taylor concert and it certainly sounded authentic.

Try to hook up a motion sound (pro3)speaker on the 2nd output on youre G70,reroute the drawbars( if possible, it can on Ty2) to that output and you have the right sound on youre hands.

Regards,
Impuls

Bernie I see a New NORD C1 in your future
http://www.nordusa.com/c1organ.html

These are all good ideas, I'm sure. Before I go Willy Nilly, down to the music store, I'll give my Receptor another go. If that doesn't get it, I will audition some equipment

or maybe even an Electro .

You can't route the G70's Hammond section to anything but the main outputs.

Wish I could, though. My Pro-3T would be on tour with me permanently!

As a Hammond Pro Player, my choice in the "New" keyboards MY preference in sound and Leslie emulation, NOTHING comes closer than the Nord Electro.
The only thing is that you must get accustom to the Non-draw-bars user interface, I had the chance to compare it in the same PA (FLAT) with Korg BX3, Roland VK7, Nord Electro, all of these VS a REAL B3 with a 122.
Hands down, the Nord Electro was the better or closer to the B3 !!.

Maybe NORD will make an arranger model one day ?

Why would they get into anything that the market is getting smaller for every year, not larger?

Nord's latest is a vector synthesis keyboard. Loops, morphing textures, cutting edge sounds. Doesn't sound like they are exactly chomping at the bit to supply bossa nova machines for non-players, does it..?

They have NEVER made an all-round, workstation-like product, don't have the sample library for something as complicated as this, and have always specialized in focused application keyboards, whether it is the Nord Lead, Electro, Stage or C1.

To be honest, I admire their approach. Better a few brilliant sounds that we all need than a plethora of half-assed sounds of little value. More keyboard companies should note this, IMO

Nord is definitely making an impact with its keyboards and design. They force us to approach things differently, but certainly not in a negative way. Their drawbar switches SEEM to be very responsive; those who use them seem to adjust to the different approach very quickly and easily. I only hope that the Nord will become more accessible, as I have NEVER seen one in a store, nor had the opportunity to actually play one. Had I the opportunity, I would definitely like to look at the Electro2-73 and the C1.

Diki why do you put down arranger players & thier choice of instruments. Theres more of us then you really know world wide. I'm proud to play an arranger KB. In this post you seem to veer away from arranger alliance & keep your distance as do many non believers who wouldn't be caught dead playing an arranger for fear of being exiled by so called "REAL" musicians who look down atthe arranger players world?
I hope that's not your train of thought also being you play an arranger also no matter how you use it.

Far from it Donny... You know I have played nothing BUT arrangers for all my live gigs for the last 15 years or so.

But that doesn't stop me from acknowledging their TRUE customer base, as Ian so often points out (and you always, at least since you went back to Yamaha, seem to agree with him ). The HOME player, one finger user, which gets us the rep in the first place!

Sure, us 'pros' can use them, but you have to be something of an odd duck (and that's me in a nutshell!) and try to realize that they are neither designed, nor expected to be used by pros much, especially the market leader. There's a lot of us gathered here, but as Ian points out, we are hardly representative!

DUMB
I know better. I had reported that Native Instruments B4 was good, but not quite what I was striving for. I put my Muse Receptor in my 3 space rack by itself, and started over. I saw I had connected only the right out, as I use a Bose, which is mono. I know that a mono out is already summed to mono, but tapping one half of a R/L is not necessarily summed. I took both jacks out and summed to mono . This made the difference. What a sound !

Thanks, Diki, and all others for their suggestions. I would rather eat crow and fess up to a faulty assumption than to say nothing.

Bernie

Diki......we may be odd ducks...BUT we're Great Playing ODD DUCKS ....whoever made up the Arranger Keyboard RULES I'll never know & quite frankly don't give a crap...
Let the arranger POLICE look and drool baby
We're here to stay & let the so called pros peek over & always wonder
"How does he get that great sound?" with that "Home Keyboard" with speakers bahahahaha It happens all the time & I love it Lets just do our thing, forget the naysayers & enjoy our musical lives & the fact that we can make people happy with our music & make a decent living doing it.

"Money For Nothing & The Chicks For Free"

Nobody mentioned the Roland VK8M? It's a fine module that you midi to your keyboard to give you physical drawbars and great Tonewheel sound. Maybe not as good sounding as the NORD, but certainly performance friendly.

------------------
Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

http://www.roland.com/PRODUCTS/EN/VK-8M/index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRL3_m7bxF4




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-12-2008).]

You can keep the VK section thru the mains and route the other parts thru seperate outs..

At the cost of losing ALL your effects, Fran... (and all the effects on the style or sequence, too).

Bit too high a cost for a Leslie out for the HB section, IMO Do you LIKE to play bone dry..?

Leslies were bone dry

I had two Leslie 147 RVs on my Hammond B-3...they had spring reverb.

Ian

Leslies stood in a room or hall... Those provided the ambience, or reverb was applied to the mikes in a studio situation.

The problem isn't that the Leslies are bone dry (actually, there's a pre-Leslie reverb send), it's that you can't route the B3 section, with the Leslie turned off (but the C/V still on) to a separate output to feed to the Pro-3T. You either do without, or lose the effects on every single part you play EXCEPT the B3 section (by having to route them to the Direct Outs, which are pre-effect).

Ian is right. I use a 147RV, and it has an adjustable reverb, adjusted with a push rod, instead of a knob. Really makes a difference when I use it with a Leslie pre-amp to play guitar through, or a keyboard without a 13 pin connector. Also have a 145...same unit, power-wise, but shorter and no reverb. Extra height on 147 RV is for extra reverb amp and spring chamber.

Nothing like it!


Russ



[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 06-13-2008).]