I'm having discomfort with my left ear and constant ringing in the brain for over a month now. I noticed it when I spent about two weeks playing the piano appx 5 hours a day a few weeks back. I was working on left hand technique for hours on end so the music was extra loud on the bass side of the piano. My feeling is there were too many rumbling sound waves going into my ear canal day after day (though it's the highs that actually affect your hearing).

I went to my primary care doctor and then to an ear, nose, and throat M.D. He found no abnormalities at all. No soreness, irritation, infection, water, etc...nada! I took a hearing test and surprisingly came out of it with a high score.

I explained my "sound wave" theory to the doctor and he replied that it had "nothing to do with it."

I'd like to go to someone who understands hearing as it affects musicians. I'm not sure where to find someone like that.

So do any of you have any ideas about this situation? Anyone also having this problem?
Any comments at all are welcomed. I need to take this in another direction.

Lucky

I sometime feel as if i'm not hearing my keyboard loud enough; and I think its from playing for a long time at a the highest volume, and also from being close to drums and speakers...

Hope this helps...
Shim

Hi Lucky
I would say that you have what is known as Tinnitus.
I and many millions have this continuous 'buzz' or 'ring'(described by sufferers). It is a complaint which has not been too well studied by the medics but there are supposed to be some possible relief actions which one can pursue. One of the most proposed aids is an earplug which emits a low noise, supposedly to mask the ringing.
I have suffered this tinnitus for 20 years and treat it as part of my life, but it is sometimes hard to mask, especially when there is no other noise to take your mind off the one in your ears!Like when reading in a quiet room or when trying to sleep during the night.
Actually, after 20 years I decided to pay a visit to my doctor just a couple of weeks ago to see if there is anything else around which could help because the sounds have been getting stronger lately. He only knew of a tablet called Betahistine which I am now trying.
But he did say that it probably won't work! and after a couple of weeks it hasn't worked for me...yet.
A lot of musicians suffer this tinnitus by virtue of having been so close to loud noises for most of their life, especially large Speakers!
I hope you are able to get rid of your problem soon.
cheers
Eddie Johnson

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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

First of all, your doctor is right... Acoustic piano does not put out enough volume to permanently damage your hearing (unless you are amplifying it, or playing on cans with the volume too high) as a general rule. A rock concert, on the other hand...

But there are a wide range of medicines, and other things that can cause it. Here is the Wiki entry, and this may help you track down it's cause and cure, or at least, alleviation of the symptoms; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus

Please take good care of your ears. I feel musicians needs to take every precaution possible, they can not be replaced. After many years of loud volumes, far less than today’s music, my ears are showing signs of a hearing loss. Although my hearing is still generally good I am using a hearing aid to tune the upper 12 notes of the piano.

Here is something to worry about – Listening to music with most hearing aid is similar to listing to music on your phone, nightmare, don’t let it happen.

John C.

Eddie Johnson has pretty well covered it. Possible every person as we age gets some form of Tinnitus. In my case I hear a low bass drown but only in the quite of the night if I wake for whatever reason. At first I was walking around our Bungalow in the middle of the night looking for the something I had left switched on.

Tinnitus comes and goes and nothing can be done, so live and cope with it....it's not life threatening and although unpleasant it's a matter of coming to terms with it.

I play drums and piano. And although I use ear protection religiously, I sometimes become very sensitive to low frequencies such as those found in sub-woofers. My ears will become very sensitive to the point that they feel like the woofer itself; moving in and out. I lower the volume of the music and it goes away.

I attribute this to either diet or other environmental factors as my hearing is otherwise ok, unless my wife is talking. I sort of have trouble hearing her......;-)

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Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

what?...

I've got it too. I find quiet relaxation helps, but it never really goes away - been that way for about 10 years now.

I know of a man who is a musician, used to suffer through tinnitus and then went for a medical procedure where he was placed in a chamber and was treated with sound waves and it 100% cured him. Now, as to how much it costs, where it's located, etc. I haven't the foggiest, but you could do a search on him and maybe find a way to contact him.

His name is Ray Hughes, he is a world-class Christian musician and worship leader. Just google him in and I'm sure you'll find him. YOu can prabably e-mail directly and find out about it.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

I suffered a few years back with ear problems, the nurse syringed the ears out after a couple of days of ear drops to soften the wax, it builds up as a natural defence against noise, some people build up too much and have to have it done on a regular basis, but its easy to check, get the wifey( or partner) to look into it!Also i now use in ear monitoring, which is set to a comfortable level for listening,combined with ear moulds from the audiologist, although the audience still get it full force!

Have had tinnitis for years...loud music and living at the end of military jet flightlines.

Just decided to live with it!


Russ

I've had tinitus for 50 years, which resulted from being a first-loader on a 3-inch 50-mm anti-aircraft gun. As first loader you're standing between a pair of guns, both firing 30 rounds a minute and your job is to slam the shells into a hopper as fast as the gun is being fired. Back then there was no hearing protection and after just a one-hour firing exercise you were nearly deaf. Your hearing came back, but tinitus came with it and never left. And, Graham is right--you'll have to live with it. Some claim miracle treatments and pills, but most, if not all, do not work--at least the ones I've tried.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Hold on now everyone and especially you Gary. Lucky2Bhere has only experienced this episode of ringing just recently so I would be hesitant to tell him to just live with it and/or he'll have it for the rest of his life and to get use to it. Hummm.. Give him some hope along with all of your "help" okay guys?

If you have only been experiencing this ringing in your ears since the time you played for 5 hours a day at loud volume levels then the ringing should most likely subside and resolve itself over a relatively short period of time. The key here is to not subject yourself (your hearing) to these overly loud episodes again anytime soon if ever. This will give your ears i.e. (your hearing) the necessary time to recover on their own if you don't continue to expose them to excessive noise levels in the mean time. In other words Lucky2Bhere, take a break from any loud keyboard or any other kinds of loud noise level exposures to your hearing (ears) until the ringing stops and then when it does stop be careful not to expose your hearing to those loud noise levels again, and especially not to expose them to overly loud noise levels for long periods at a time if you do.

The human body is a marvelous thing. If you listen to what it is trying to tell you and heed the advice it has a marvelous way of correcting and healing itself in the process, over a given period of time. That goes for your hearing, for the nourishment of your body, and ultimately what is at stake is your bodies continued well being over the course of your life. Treat your body right and it will thank you, and you will thank it too.

Best,
Mike

I, like Gary, have experienced tinnitis for many years. I often thought that the musicians earplugs available would prevent losing any more of my hearing and help keep the tinnitis from getting worse. Has anyone tried the specialty earplugs? Is there a brand or type that is better than others?
Ciao,
Jerry

Thanks to everyone who contributed here and hopefully will continue to toss this subject around. I’ve been all out of ideas so I’m grateful I’m able to bounce this off of you fellows. Also my sympathies to those who are living with Tinnitus.

Diki pointed me to the Wikipedia description of Tinnitus. Reading this I’ve learned a lot more about this condition. I can see I DO have some form of Tinnitus. But I also noted here that “Tinnitus is not itself a disease but a symptom resulting from a range of underlying causes.”

My doctor (who has known me for 25 years) said it’s nerves and stress that is doing it. I could also look into losing some weight and think to see if anything I’m taking internally is causing it.

Al Giordano wrote: “I sometimes become very sensitive to low frequencies such as those found in sub-woofers.”

Me: I’m wondering still if the low frequencies on the piano caused this despite the doctors denying it.

Korg4god…thanks. I found the Roy Hughes contact info on his MySpace site.

Kbrkr: Can you tell me what you meant by: “I attribute this to diet?” I’m a firm believer in cleansing your diet when you have a medical problem.

Mike…I’m inclined to go a lot with what you said here. My intuition is telling me it IS from the low frequency piano sounds. Not only that, but the piano is out of tune and I’m wondering if that also upset some kind of balance in there?

I DID try NOT playing for 2 weeks but no change in the condition. Then I tried using headphones and ear plugs but they were no help.

Yes, I would like to allow my body to heal itself. But my situation is I’ve only ever known playing music all my life and for me to stop would be a disaster for me. Still...if I have to I will to stop the condition from getting worse, but I’d have to think long and hard to be sure that’s what I need. Mike, for now I WILL give it another temporary rest while I digest what everyone has written here so far.

I had a friend many years ago who stepped in front of a loudspeaker just as there was “feedback” from the microphone. He did so much damage to both his ears that he had to completely block and seal them up for two years to allow healing. Lived in a world of silence for those two years. So there’s something to what Mike said here. I’d just hate to do something like that (hopefully for a shorter period) and discover the condition still there.

Do any of you know where I can get medical information or find a medical doctor that I can explore what Mike has written above?

Mike: where did YOU come up with this? Did you go through the same thing?

Jerry T asked for info about ear plugs. Anyone using the ones that trim the frequency range at all points (even across the board). Or anyone using “noiseless” headphones to shield their ears?

I find loud music from sub woofers most disturbing to the extent of feeling sick.

I also suffer fatigue if I overdo listening to music and have to give it away for a period.

I do not suffer lasting effects.

The condition you could be suffering from I understand can be brought on by an infection in the ears such as from a bad cold.

My wife,son and daughter are suffers and this is their experience.

Cousin Ken

Persistent Tinnitus, in most instances, results from repeated exposure to high-intensity sound levels. Yes, minor ear infections, URI (upper respiratory infections) and some medication side effects can cause tempory forms of tinnitus to flare up, but they usually go away within days of stopping the medication or when the infection has resolved.

Sound levels above 85-db are now considered damaging to hearing. In the real world, we're all exposed to sound levels that high on a daily basis. Loud truck engines, aircraft engines, construction equipment, and just yesterday I was hit with a ear-piercing 120-db blast from a wheel-chair-belt alarm. Yep, that tiny, battery-powered alarm that lets the nurse know if the patient opens the safety belt on the wheel chair is deafening to say the least.

I worked with some of the top ENT doctors in the nation for many years, and a few of them sail and fish with me on a regular basis. I posed the question to them about my particular condition while working at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland USA. Their response was pretty much the same "There's nothing we can do--it's something you'll just have to live with."

BTW: Some forms of Tinnitus are caused by childhood diseases, with mumps being the first that comes to mind. If I recall correctly, that was one of the first questions the doctors asked me when I inquired about a remedy.

The other thing I learned, which I sincerely believe is accurate, is that while you cannot cure or even improve persistent Tinnitus, you can prevent it from becoming worse by avoiding additional exposure to loud noises. There are times, of course, when this is not possible, but I now wear hearing protectors while mowing the lawn with the tractor, using the weed eater, and performing similar tasks. This might not sound like much, but it's better than taking no precaution at all.

One final thought. Persistent Tinnitus can also be the result of hypertension (high blood pressure). It's a good idea to purchase an inexpensive blood pressure measuring device and take your blood pressure daily. Hypertension is also known as the "Silent Killer" because there are essentially no outward symptoms that this is taking place. That $50 blood-pressure measuring device could save your life.

Good Luck,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

My recent worsening of my tinnitus coincided with my annual sight test. The optician advised me to see a doctor soon because she had seen an irregularity in the arteries in my eyes.
I had a blood pressure taken at the doc's and it was sky high....82/190.
I was immediately prescribed tablets (amlodipine) and within a week the BP was down to 68/142 which he said was normal for my age (75).However, unfortunately the tinnitus has not improved.
I thought of purchasing my own BP machine and the doctor said that was OK but sometimes the readings on the 'cheap' testers are not accurate but a general indication of the BP is all I need.
cheers
Eddie Johnson



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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

Eddie,
I have bought (from a Dixons-style shop), a semi-cheap (40€) Braun blood pressure thingy for my parents, who are 80 years old. It says in the manual that the indicated BP may differ as much as 5% up or down to the actual BP.

Even if the error is actually 10%, if you follow a pre-determined check routine (say 10am and 8pm each day, it takes 10-15 seconds only, the doctor shall tell you when to check) and write down the results, you will easily be able to see a pattern in the readings.

If the pattern starts to change, then you can consult your doctor for further action, but you will have the advantage of "catching it in the start".

BEST 40€ É spent for my parents. Absolutely recommended, as also Gary pointed out.

Thanks for your suggestions
I will look into the fuller range of available BP testers now , thanks to yourself and Gary
cheers
Eddie Johnson

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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info



[This message has been edited by eddiefromrotherham (edited 04-17-2008).]

http://www.braun.com/global/products/healthwellness/bloodpressure/vitalscanplus/mod els.html

I have bought the BP 1600, there were at least 5-6 other models in the shop I looked (MediaMarkt)

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 04-17-2008).]

Hi Lucky2Bhere,
sorry for delayed reply. I've been lurking here for a few months, but thought I'd now register so I can reply here.

I am an audiologist, working in Melbourne, Australia.

You've made a good start having seen your doctor and ENT specialist (Ear Nose Throat). They can rule out medical conditions that can cause tinnitus.

It is relatively common to have tinnitus following exposure to loud noise. It is often accompanied by a temporary hearing loss (TTS - Temporary Threshold Shift)
There are several theories behind tinnitus, but the one that seems to hold more water than most goes like this: Due to the hearing loss (whether temporary or permanent) - the brain registers that it is missing auditory input that would normally be there. In an attempt to compensate for this, it increases its 'internal gain' mechanism. When turned up enough, the brain starts to register the internal neurological noise of the brain....a bit like an amplifier that is turned up with no input signal creates a 'static' noise. Often the brain substitutes a noise that is quite closely related to the region of hearing loss. (but sometimes not!)
For a lot of people, the tinnitus often subsides as the hearing returns. For others, the tinnitus persists. It would appear for those who develop chronic tinnitus, that there is another part of the brain getting involved - which 'flags' the tinnitus as a potentially harmful/threatening sound. It registers an emotion and/or physiological response (eg., a fight or flight response) and so draws your attention to it, in a way further amplifying the noise from the background. The stress response to the tinnitus causes a feedback loop - more stress makes the tinnitus feel louder, which in return increases the stress.
For some people, they can break this feedback loop either through counselling, or even through education/reading/understanding why it is happening to them. Some are able to habituate to the tinnitus through force of will. For others, the more they try to put the tinnitus out of their mind, the worse it gets, because they are still thinking about the tinnitus!
While it is true there is no magic potion or cure to speak of, there is a very effective treatment which can break the cycle of tinnitus distress. It can reduce the awareness and disturbance of tinnitus.It is called the Neuromonics tinnitus treatment, and they claim a 90% or thereabouts success rate. I have been running this treatment in my clinic for about 18 months, and have found this figure to be accurate.
Now, I am not giving you clinical advice here on this board, but wanting to inform you that contrary to common opinion, there IS treatment for tinnitus that is scientifically validated. Neuromonics has been published in major audiology journals, the latest one, Ear and Hearing, in 2007. The treatment, while successful has some limitations - they have found it doesn't work well on people whose hearing fluctuates. Also, musicians have a lower success rate - this is because the therapeutic signal used is embedded in music, and musicians tend to 'listen in' to the signal, rather than let the signal blend in to the background as intended (like background noise, if you like). Having said that, one of my clients was a 23 y o student and musician, who found the treatment very helpful. The one major downside of the treatment is that it is not cheap. ( a few thousand bucks.) So we tend to only use this treatment when people are really quite distressed by their tinnitus. If only mildly distressed, it doesn't seem worth spending the money on treatment. Often people investigate other avenues (counselling etc) of management first.
I won't explain the ins and outs of tinnitus treatment here, as it varies a bit according to the person's needs, and there are lots of variables. Counselling and support is a very important part of it, and of course, so is the acoustic therapy.
My suggestion would be to see an audiologist that specializes in tinnitus management. Most doctors and even ENTs aren't yet up to date with current advances in tinnitus management. We are running education campaigns to slowly get the word out to the medical community.

Hope that is of some help, if you are still awake after reading all this...
Regards,

Eugene
Disclaimer: I'm not employed by Neuromonics - the vast bulk of my work is doing hearing tests and fitting hearing aids.

Great information Eugene.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Thanks for the great report Eugene.
The above extract from your input has meaning for me.
I have always believed that musicians are 'artists' rather than 'scientists' and find it easy to blend into music and retain the structure of the 'noise' they are hearing.
This is probably why my wife is basically a 'scientist'. She cannot remember any tunes but enjoys the 'background' pleasure it gives.She finds it very easy to switch off from any unpleasant sounds (like when I am practising my music! and particularly when I am singing))
I have been personally trying to teach myself to switch off from my tinnitus of late but finding it extremely hard.

After reading your report, I am heartened to know that it IS possible and will continue to try it.
cheers
Eddie Johnson




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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info