Ian, sorry to go OT for a bit, but that flaw you mentioned, the ACC stopping when you change chords, is that really what happens? Thats a huge problem!!!
I was about to look at buying one, but with flaws like that????
Are there any others you know of that I should be aware of BEFORE I spend any money?
Thanks
Dennis

Hi Dennis,

Diki would know more about this problem than I as he seems to mention it quite often on the Roland arranger forum.

It is not when you actually change chords whilst playing that the accompaniment shuts off...I believe it is when you change the chord type, for example, you go from Arranger type chording to Piano type chording.

It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, as I wouldn't be switching modes whilst playing, and it might not matter to you either....but it is there, nevertheless.

There was also a problem with the MIDI clock ins and outs...something about being unable to sync to a PC sequencer.

I hope this helps.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-02-2008).]

Wow, What a great topic, 111 posts. Using the volume of posts as criteria this has to be one of the best we have had. It also shows the character of the people on our forum which when put together makes one great place. Nastiness, politeness, passion it’s all hear. Anything else would not be real, this is a good place.

My thoughts:
I like to stay with the same company, you know faithful. A new Roland or Ketron keyboard may have some better feature, and there will always be that, but staying with the same company – 14 Years with Technics and now Yamaha the Psr2000 to the Tyros 2 and now the PsrS900 – allows you to understand the keyboard in depth. The time I have spent with the Technics line gave the ability to use 95% of the keyboard with full knowledge. I have now made a commitment to Yamaha, in the near future I will know a great deal about the keyboard.

Most keyboard players DO NOT know a great deal about the keyboard they are playing – unless they have been with the same brand for a period of time.
The new feature on another brand keyboard verses knowing my keyboard better is something to think about. We all differ at this point. There were many times when I had doubt about the new flagship that Technics was coming out with but I was never disappointed. No keyboard has it all – and that’s because we all have our own needs.

For me – I am staying with Yamaha – if they fall behind or go ahead of the competition is not a deciding factor me, the company is a winner and has been a winner for many years. I can not wait a the new Yamaha keyboard to come out with the upgrades and because I enjoy the older model the new one will only add to my enjoyment. Yes I will buy the Tyros 3 and 4 and 5 and whatever when they come out with but for now I am enjoying my $1400 purchase, the S900 and waiting for a new toy. If I was asked if the S900 has it all – my answer, “Of course not, it is a $1400 and in my opinion there is nothing in that price range that comes close and that is all I wish to spend in this transitional keyboard time.

Any of the keyboards mentioned will do an excellent job – My question, “How well do you know your keyboard”. And I do understand that not all of us want or need to know our keyboards in depth.

John C.

Hi John . Thats an excellent post. for me the question has never been about the number of keys. Its about what i can do creatively with the instrument i have. I play live but i am also a song writer and arranger . Getting to know my instrument inside out is more important to me than the next instrument or competitor. I am not a 'typical'arranger keyboard customer. But most are very loyal to the brand just as you so elequently describe.

Thanks Ian.
I might check out that forum for some further info.
Cheers
Dennis

Kind of makes moot what you've been saying, though. It apparently IS about the number of keys, at least from Yamaha's viewpoint...

But seriously, one of the things you don't take into account is, for those ALREADY used to a 76, a forced step back to a 61 is a bitter pill to swallow. It isn't so much about 'what you can do with what you have', for me it's very much about 'what was I able to do before that I can't now'. If I WANT to play within a 61 note range, that is no problem on a 76! But you simply CANNOT play what you can on a 76 on a 61.

This includes almost ALL of the classical repertoire (you'd be amazed at how much can be done on a 76, though!), most jazz, any Rhodes based fusion and jazz funk, and maybe the 85% of modern pop piano that CAN be played on a 76 (probably less than 40% can be played on a 61, IMO).

Within the limits of transportability, I want to be able to play any darn thing I feel like playing, at any time I feel like playing it. And, as a user of keyboards of ALL sizes since the sixties, I can tell you, there are just some things that you CAN'T play on a 61. And they include many of my favorites.

Hence why I use 76 now, I've used 76 for decades now (while adding smaller ones as necessary), and I won't go back. I could easily do a gig on a 61, if FORCED to (done it many times), but if given a choice (this is why I'm pissed at Yamaha), I'll take the 76 every time.

Less compromise is always a good thing, IMO...

BTW, yes, Ian's point about the Roland ACC cutting off is only when you change chord recognition TYPES.

For me, it is a pain, as I tend to play two handed piano as the comp to a song, but want to go to LH chords, RH melody for solos, and the like. So the change is a little timing critical. But you CAN do it and get it close to unnoticeable. There's a workaround that makes the Pianostyle to LH ARR/RH solo mode seamless, but the trip back has a mute (drums and bass keep going, just the ACC will cut off ONLY the chord you play, it'll pick the next one up fine. So it isn't a deal breaker (if it were, I'd be playing something else!)...

You have to understand, I like to dig in extremely deep into an OS, I like flexibility in the OS, so any weird thing I feel like doing, I am not hampered by the OS. To this date, I've never found an arranger that gets it ALL right, but as part of my moderating the G70 site's bug forum, and from working with our New Features (wish-list) forum, I am one of the more vocal in trying to goad Roland into continuing with their already excellent upgrade path for this three year old arranger.

After two MAJOR and a couple of minor OS upgrades, the G70 is a far different, far more powerful arranger than it was when released (which T2 owners cannot say!). OTOH, it is not perfect, at least by my definition (although nothing else is either!), So my name gets attached to most of the gripes that are left. But I assure you, they are none of them deal-breakers (I'm still playing it happily!), and most can, like all the problems with Yamaha's (they exist) be comfortably worked around.

But there are NO perfect arrangers. Every last one of them forces you to adopt at least a FEW restrictions on what and how you can do things. For all the many things I admire in the Yamaha OS, I guarantee that if I had one, I could find AT LEAST as much to criticize in it's OS as I do for Roland. The only difference would be, that after I found them on the Yamaha, they would ALL remain unfixed until the next model comes out. Which after two major and two minor OS fixes on the G70, I cannot say...! Some still exist, sadly. But on the bright side, all of the REALLY major flaws have been corrected, so just because I continue to post about the remaining ones, don't for one minute think that I am a dissatisfied user!

Just hopeful (justifiably!).....

Maybe in your mind it is, but, more realistically it is about Yamaha's analysis of the market and their decision not to enter a portion of the market that isn't proven to be economically viable.

A wise company does not make anything unless it is shown to be economically viable.

Clearly, you can't (or won't) grasp simple basic marketing.

Spalding, Gary and I have explained it quite well to you, but it seems to be beyond your comprehension...you just seem bent on trying to prove a point that has no basis in reality.

Good luck.

Ian

'for me the question has never been about the number of keys.'

'I am not a 'typical'arranger keyboard customer. '

MAYBE I SHOULD JUST TYPE STUFF UP IN BOLD DIKI. WHICH PART OF 'FOR ME...' DID YOU NOT GET ? DID YOU SEE THE BIT ABOUT ME NOT BEING A TYPICAL ARRANGER PLAYER ?

The good news for you is that there is not a gap in the market for 76 key arangers so you will never be forced to revert to a 61 key instrument. Your needs are adequately catered for. I understand your frustration with Yamaha but i dont think they are going to move on this issue in the near future. You are not their target market. Neither am I