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#229423 - 03/19/08 11:08 PM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
One can only hope and pray that the new SA2 voices have the same attention to detail and playability as the old T2 voices. Because, for whatever reason, Yamaha's use of the SA voices on the MotifXS series has NOT been as resounding a success as the T2 implementation, and many MotifXS users are screaming for the same SA programming as the T2, which apparently does a LOT more for the player in the background, rather than leaving it up to switches and foot SWs to trigger the SA elements...


You are exactly right Diki. I briefly owned an XS7 and the Expanded Articulation System (which is actually suppose to be an advancement of the original SA voices on the Tyros2) did not produce the same quality of sound that you get with the SAV voices on the Tyros2. Therefore I can understand why others who bought a Motif XS would have similar feelings about the XS implementation of SAV's as being inferior to the SAV's on the Tyros2. I noticed it right away on my XS and it was one of the reasons I chose not to keep it.

If the SAV"2"nd generation on the Tyros3 even remotely resembles the Expanded Articulation System on the Motif XS it would be a step backward in my opinion.

Hopefully though, Yamaha has listened to the complaints about the poor implementation of the Expanded Articulation System on the Motif XS and the SAV"2" of the Tyros3 will not only be different but better in every regard, including what's currently on the Tyros2. We shall see in roughly eight months or so what sonic improvements (if any) the SAV2's will bring to the table. If they are substantial then Yamaha will probably sell a boat load of them to keyboardists who feel 61 keys is sufficient for their needs. And as we already know there are many who feel that way, although there are many who never did feel 61 keys was sufficient and there are some who no longer do, including me. But Yamaha is still sticking to their guns even though the facts are staring them in the face. >> I know someone will retort and say that the fact is: "61 key keyboards are the most popular sellers". Yes, but the other relevant fact is there is a considerable market for keyboards other than the ones with only 61 keys. Yamaha realizes that fact too and has made provision for it in the lower and middle end range of their arranger keyboard line with multiple 76 key models. And they also do the same with the top of the line workstation segment with a 76 key Motif XS, which of course also includes an 88 key model. Why Yamaha totally disregards the 76 key totl arranger segment is very mystifying to me and from what I've observed, to a multitude of others as well. Steve Deming and of course Ian have relayed to corporate headquarters the desire that many of us have for a 76 key totl arranger so we can't fault them or any of the staff at Yamaha U.S. No, the lack of response is from Yamaha Japan who ultimately have the final say regarding any and every product design decision. And so far it apparently still hasn't gotten through to them that there is indeed a viable market for a Yamaha 76 key totl arranger. And I'm not sure what it will take to "open their eyes". It may be as simple for them as starting to think outside of the box. But getting them to do that could be like pulling teeth. In other words, it might not be easy and it could be next to impossible. Thank goodness there is Korg, Roland, and Ketron who continue to have a deep concern for those of us who want a totl arranger with more than 61 keys. I honestly feel sad for Yamaha, because in my opinion they are missing out on a great opportunity; not only for themselves in expanding their bottom line financially, but also in fulfilling the segment of the market who are eagerly desiring a 76 key totl arranger from them.

Best,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-19-2008).]
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#229424 - 03/20/08 02:18 AM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4906
Loc: English Riviera, UK
If 76 notes are in such great demand, why are their sales figures so poor?
The Ketron SD5 outsells the SD1, the Roland E80 sold more in 6 months then the G70 has in its entire life, and the Korg PA1x outsold the PA1x Pro by at least 3 to 1.
As you can see, there is not such a big demand for 76 notes as you think there is.
Oh and BTW the Tyros 2 outsells all of them.
Welcome to the Real World

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#229425 - 03/20/08 02:45 AM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1156
Loc: Oradea, RO
bill,
the demand for 76 is great.
but in all these examples you gave, sd5, pa1x and e80 have on board speakers!!! this is also a great demand, even though seperate from 76 keys...
i believe this is the real reason why they sell better.
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Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#229426 - 03/20/08 05:00 AM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4013
Loc: Norway
Could it be as simple that 64 keys and speaker versions are aimed for the home
market, and 76 keys and no speakers are
aimed for the "pro" market, who mostly
have PA systems to carry the sound?
Also I guess that 76 keys are preferred when play "pianomode"...
GJ
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Cheers 🥂
GJ
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"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#229427 - 03/20/08 11:41 AM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
If 61 note keyboards are the ONLY PSR's and Tyros's that Yamaha make, OF COURSE the majority of sales will reflect people's 'preference' for them, because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE!

The only way to find out what people's REAL needs are is to offer both sizes, and find out from that. Factor in the decreased cost of a 61, and naturally, you are going to find the majority want this size, but the cost of simply tooling the case larger to accommodate a 76, with no other changes made, is negligible. It's not like making a whole different keyboard.

So Yamaha ought to consider that those who MUST use 76, MUST use another manufacturer, probably something they would prefer not to happen. Surely the cost of tooling up for this would be MORE than offset by the large numbers (there are more than a few right here at SZ that have expressed this need - are we representative or not?) that want this product, and brand loyalty is prized when you are going for market dominance. To FORCE loyal Yamaha users away from the brand once their skills progress past simple LH chords RH solo techniques cannot be good for them...

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#229428 - 03/20/08 12:05 PM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
If 76 notes are in such great demand, why are their sales figures so poor?
The Ketron SD5 outsells the SD1, the Roland E80 sold more in 6 months then the G70 has in its entire life, and the Korg PA1x outsold the PA1x Pro by at least 3 to 1.
As you can see, there is not such a big demand for 76 notes as you think there is.
Oh and BTW the Tyros 2 outsells all of them.
Welcome to the Real World

Bill


I guess Yamaha figures, "if it works...don't fix it".

A wise decision, to be sure, at least based on reported sales figures and overall customer satisfaction.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-26-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#229429 - 03/20/08 01:04 PM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2822
Loc: Tampa, FL
I'd like to know where everyone is getting their sales figures for the market share of 61, 76, and 88 key keyboards? I'd like to see some official numbers posted.

I find it hard to believe 61 keys outpace 76 keys since every un-official poll I see asking users which they would rather have 61 or 76 key boards favors the 76 key by a large margin??

What Gives??

------------------
Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.
_________________________
Al


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#229430 - 03/20/08 01:15 PM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Do you really believe ANY manufacturer would post "official" sales figures on a public forum?

Get real!

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#229431 - 03/20/08 02:15 PM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40923
Al sounds like your not happy with your 76 key Korg?

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#229432 - 03/20/08 04:27 PM Re: News about the coming Tyros 3
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1663
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
I agree, sales figures aren't something these companies are going to let out, and if they do it's usually grossly hyped so competing companies think they are doing better than they are.

I personally love using a 76 note keyboard, but I actually use less than a 61 keybed.
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