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#227132 - 02/16/08 07:40 AM Re: Another one bites the dust!
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Okay, so there seems to be two camps; those who take the time to do long-term comprehensive research including extended in-store experimentation AND whose purchase is motivated by a genuine NEED to change keyboards such as changing performance needs, broken or grossly outdated equipment, or possibly skill level having surpassed the capabilities of the current equipment. Then there are those with the financial wherewithal to absorb the potential loss in exchange for a chance to experience the new keyboard in a home environment and for an extended period of time. Nothing wrong with that. It's the lemmings that succumb to the rants and raves of the chronic keyboard changer. Many on this board buy and change keyboards on a regular basis. The difference is that they don't become rabid proselytizers exhorting all who will listen to convert or (musically) die.

I love new stuff. I am a self-confessed gear junkie. Sometimes I buy because of a perceived need and sometimes 'just for fun'. What I try NOT to do is make converts of the great unwashed who happen to be using a different brand. Neither do the majority of other members on this board. Although this trend seems to be abating somewhat these days, no one can deny the flurry of excitement and buying activity following the 'discovery', purchase, and subsequent ballyhooing of the PA800. This, after hardly a peep for nearly two years about the nearly identical PA1x/PA1x Pro.

For those of you that feel a need to stay in lockstep with the 'royalty' on this board and don't care about the financial consequences, I say, more power to you.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#227133 - 02/16/08 09:16 AM Re: Another one bites the dust!
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:

Still, you can't really know this kind of thing unless you have it to try. It may be perfect for someone else.
DonM


Yup, fits my needs.(first PA800 now the Pa2xpro) I guess this is why there's Vanilla, Chocolate, Cookie Dough and Chunky Monkey etc. ice cream a flavor for every taste. Maybe if I were gigging every day it wouldn't do the trick....but at this point I gotta say no.

Maybe that's my way of rationalizing such a high end purchase in the Pa2xPro. After a year of turmoil including PSR 3000, Tyros2, G70. I found a home with the Korg PA2xPro. I enjoy and think Yamaha has a great products.

I may have never strayed to another brand if Yammie had a 76 key model. For this player it also feels more comfortable and fun to have 76 keys. I will also add I look to the pros who use a board on a daily basis and I will admit UD and Donny certainly had an influence on my decision, especially when it came to the vocal harmonizer.

DITTO to everything Uncle Dave said other than there is a longer key length on the Pa2xpro and I like that. Not sure how or why but I took the OS on the Korg like a fish takes to water. The "Songbook" feature alone was worth the move to this board. As I say a different flavor of ice cream for different tastes. Today I'm happy!! When a Tyros replacement hits the market that could change.

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#227134 - 02/16/08 10:38 AM Re: Another one bites the dust!
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
I think that on a board such as this one, too many people get led to slaughter by the resident 'Judas Goat'. Assigning credibility to someone who repeatedly showers praise on their latest acquisition only to sell it and reverse course an 'instant' later.......well, don't you really deserve the disappointment you will inevitably experience by following such a person's lead.


Nothing wrong with that. It's the lemmings that succumb to the rants and raves of the chronic keyboard changer. Many on this board buy and change keyboards on a regular basis. The difference is that they don't become rabid proselytizers exhorting all who will listen to convert or (musically) die.

...another quote:

For those of you that feel a need to stay in lockstep with the 'royalty' on this board and don't care about the financial consequences, I say, more power to you.

chas

chas


chas ... I really don't understand why this bothers you so ...
I also can't believe that people on this board purchase boards without testing them, but I don't know how ANYONE can FULLY test a board at a music shop ...

And anyone who purchases ANY product solely on the word of another is setting him/herself up for disappointment ...

And as far as I can recall, even with all the praise heaped on any board or other product, the 'royalty' always tells people 'YOU gotta be the final judge if it is right for you' ...

And how about all the "lemmings" who purchased something that was recommended and are happy with it, even if the one who recommended it ultimately wasn't ??? ...
t.
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t. cool

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#227135 - 02/16/08 11:58 AM Re: Another one bites the dust!
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4719
You don't know where you're going until you know where you've been.

Had big expectations with the harmonizer, power and other pallatible parameters, but had to spend many hours to rule it out (for my style).

Each his own, the story will continue - who's next?

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Nord 6D73/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/ATEM Mini Pro switcher/K&M stand

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#227136 - 02/16/08 12:27 PM Re: Another one bites the dust!
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by tony mads usa:
chas ... I really don't understand why this bothers you so ...

t.


I don't know, Tony. Maybe for the same reason my posts seem to bother you so much. Other people have been equally critical of this practice of what I call, the five "B's"; Buying, Ballyhooing, Bullying, Backtracking, and Badmouthing. But I haven't seen you criticizing their posts. BUT, in answer to your question above, I'm reminded of the old joke about the very devout farmer who seemed to be constantly plagued by bad luck and tragic events. Unable to understand why God would be so cruel, given his devoutness, he finally asks God why. Suddenly the clouds open and a majestic voice says....."I don't know, Clyde, there's just something about you that pisses me off".

Sometimes a simple explanation sheds the most light.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#227137 - 02/16/08 02:48 PM Re: Another one bites the dust!
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
Zuki says it would take months to edit the PA800 to make it just right... What's wrong with that? Expecting something to come OOTB and be perfect for YOU is completely unrealistic. And expecting to beat it into the shape you need in time for your NEXT gig is equally unrealistic.

When I bought my G70, I did not sell my G1000. I spent maybe two or three MONTHS tweaking it, voicing it, converting styles and SMF's to sound their best on that particular keyboard. Only THEN did I go and gig it. And only after I had gigged it a few months did I sell my G1000.

If you take the time pressure off yourself, and give yourself enough time to explore the full potential of a keyboard, and the changes in workflow and technique that ANY new piece of gear is going to force you into, WITHOUT taking it to a gig, you easily avoid the mexican jumping bean approach to gear purchase. There is only one piece of gear you can buy that avoids this.... Another one of what you've already got!

But if you find yourself selling gear because it doesn't work for you immediately, try not selling what you are already comfortable with until you are comfortable with the new. For as long as it takes. There's a reason you bought the new in the first place... The sound. It blew you away in the store (or else, why did you buy it? For TWO MP3 players? ). That's not going to change when you get it home. What has to change is YOU... No arranger OS is perfect, they ALL differ in some quite substantial respects. But the sound... that's what you and your audience hear. You want that sound, you GOT to use that OS. So just being patient with the OS, accepting it's differences, and using (even inventing!) the workarounds takes time.

Force it onstage too early, and back to the store it goes! ADD arranger 101.

Even a new model from the same make you already have will present you with a LOT of OS differences (unless it is such a tiny incremental improvement it hardly bears buying!). If you are completely comfortable with what you have, DON'T BUY ANY MORE ARRANGERS. No matter HOW good the sound, unless you DO have a few months to tweak it, and the ability to change how you operate it, the sound ain't worth the pain...

But if it IS.... just suck it up! Do the work. Take your time. Get it right. Then don't buy another one until something else is just SO amazingly, unbelievably better sounding than what you just bought. That's about ten years or so for me. That's ten weeks or so for Donny Maybe he just has a much lower level of amazement...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#227138 - 02/16/08 04:54 PM Re: Another one bites the dust!
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
...."I don't know, Clyde, there's just something about you that pisses me off".
Sometimes a simple explanation sheds the most light.
chas


chas ... I sorry I piss you off ... but remember it is better to be pissed off, than pissed ON !!! ... and you make me feel like the latter ...
t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#227139 - 02/16/08 05:23 PM Re: Another one bites the dust!
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
This, after hardly a peep for nearly two years about the nearly identical PA1x/PA1x Pro


Big BIG difference in that "nearly identical" model. I had a PA1xpro, and it was clumsy, heavy and did not stack up to the vocal capabilities of the PA800. The 800 is a step up from the 1x in my book.
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#227140 - 02/16/08 05:31 PM Re: Another one bites the dust!
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4719
Diki,

You must offer some credit to those who can discern, within a very short time, why their new choice will not work.

I do have a CONSTANT and that is my Yamaha arranger, as I've had for years. With it, I play 50 - 60x per month.

I need to keep searching new things. The incumbent wins every time, but I'll keep trying. In fact, I'm probably going very radical next and am sure to offer you more entertainment in the weeks ahead.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Nord 6D73/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/ATEM Mini Pro switcher/K&M stand

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#227141 - 02/16/08 05:55 PM Re: Another one bites the dust!
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
No problem, zuki... whatever works for you.

I guess one of the things I'm getting used to (kicking and screaming ) is the tendency for members to prematurely post their glowing reports on these new purchases, LONG before they've actually figured out for themselves whether the darn thing IS any good or not...

It kind of makes subsequent reviews (from that person) kinda moot, as you have to wait for the FINAL review to get the REAL skinny, and that is often long in coming, as they hope to sell this lemon to some other person who might be influenced by all the hype in the first place!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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