so I am posting it here where the most people will read it and hopefully pass it on. I don't yet know what can be done about it but I intend to spend a lot of time, energy and money to resolve this problem for seniors. I know that are a lot of seniors in this forum.
Here is my story.
Today I received the insurance renew premium for my motorhome from GMAC Insurance, I believ that is totally owned by General Motors.
I moved my insurance to them a few years ago when I learned that State Farm covers my Motohome as a large car and not a Motorhome.
After about 4 years with GMAC they decided that this year I should pay them 471.00 every six months instead of the 409.00 I have been paying, even though the motorhome is now 3 years old and has 9000 miles on it and should be less premium, due to its depreciated value.
I immediately phoned them and asked why they would do this as I have never had a claim, accident or ticket in the last 30 or 40 years. I have the lowest rate in the books from State Farm for my other three vehicles.
This is what you need to know about age discrimination and insurance companies.
You are now charged according to your age. They told me that I was being surchaged because my wife turned 65 last month. Can you believe this. My wife doesn't drive the motorhome and is not a principal driver and she cannot be removed from the policy, because she lives in the same household that I do. I told them she has never driven this motorhome and probably never would unless it was an emergency, even though she has been trained to drive it.
They refused to make any adjustments unless I get a divorce and send them a copy of the final degree
I discussed this with some neighbors and two of them told me that their companies had surchaged them for 3 years because due to the law of averages they were within three years of having a major costly accident. One did not and after three years they dropped her rate back to what she had been paying before. The other one did and her rate will stay surcharged for ever. These are both senior women in their 50's The will next be surcharged when they turn 65.
I asked about myself and they told me I am already being surcharged as I was over 65 when I wrote this policy with them. I won't be surcharged again until I hit 80 in 4 more years.
I discussed this with my wife who is a Commercial lines (business) Insurance broker and she said that unfortunately yes they can do that as it is not illegal or discrimination at this time.
So............maybe we need to make it illegal and age discrimination because you are all going to have to deal with it.
Let me hear from you about your feelings on this big rip off we are all going to be subject to. I will return from vacation in 10 days and will be writing lots of letters, making phone calls and talking to some legal talent, as well as our state insurance commissioner.
Best to all and thanks for listening.
Thanks to Nigel if you would please leave this thread up here for replies.
Bebop

If I remember my history insurance was started out to be a way to spread risk but has now become a way to make a quick buck.

I sometimes feel that my life is controlled by them as they put more and more restrictions on me and people who serve me because of the fear of claims.

Cousin Ken

bebop,
i understand your frustration. but at least you have an insurance. in my country unfortunately most of the seniors not only have no insurance, but thay have to live with about 25 US dolars a month, their money is totally gone in three days for living costs and then they live dont ask me how.
you're still doing good. maybe is not quite on topic, but i think is about seeing a full or empty half a glass. being able to take a vacation for instance is something my seniors would never even dream of.

Age discrimination has been going on for years in the insurance business. We have seen this in how teen drivers pay through the nose for their policy. It is really all about propensity studies or a matrix on age related accidents. It seems unfair to be sure, no one wants to be categorized as a higher risk than someone else. However, insurance companies are in it for the money.

I certainly don't have any intent to offend. I hate paying the myriad insurance premiums that I pay.

Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

With all due respect, those surcharges are probably justified (and are probably legally required to be by the State insurance commission) by actuarial tables. We have to accept the fact that as we age, our reflexes, vision, hearing, physical strength, memory, etc., start to diminish, making us more prone to accidents. We're probably lucky that at some specified age, we don't have to surrender our licenses and give up our driving privileges. Luckier still that in most states we don't have to be periodically re-tested (and we probably should be). We shouldn't hang on until the 'kids' have to take away our car keys.

Although I sympathize, we should probably be turning our attention to areas where TRUE age discrimination is less justified.

Just one old codgers (me) reality check. Flame me if you must. It's just my opinion.

chas

The State of Pa. has taken away my mother's license, because at 85, and a recent accident, she's now considered too much of a safety risk.

The insurance company also dropped my father, because he too is considered 'high risk' However he was able to find a company that will insure him, at a high cost, for 6 months at a time. He too is close to losing his drivers license.

Fair? Perhaps. Because of safety reason, it's probably justified. The younger you are, the more insurance you pay. And now with people living and driving longer and longer, the older you are, the more you'll pay for insurance.

However in Bebop's case, he's not a risk. I know he's not that old I know he's been driving that big ol RV for quite some time without any claims. In fact he has an excellent record. Therefore, I do not think this rate increase is justified, and if I know Bebop, he'll not stand for it.

Good Luck

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Larry
SynthZone Map

Life is not fair. Insurance is even more unfair. But as I've said before, we here on the SZ are a special bunch of people. We have talent, smarts and - in most cases - enough money to enjoy ourselves and our lives. Unfortunately, the high cost of insurance is one of the prices we (gladly ???) pay to live the lives we lead.

I have not reached that age plateau yet, but I know that senior living is not as exotic as it seems. Unfortunately, we seem to charge the seniors for things that the wage earners could and should more easily shoulder. I used to pay $2 for a 30-day prescription of Vytorin, now that I'm retired it's $39. Who can afford it more?

Auto insurance is outrageous. Pay, pay pay and if you get a ticket or have a fender bender your rates skyrocket even higher for 3-5 years. Have another incident and good luck renewing your policy at all.

Unfortunately, the insurance companies have the upper hand--mainly because the state insurance commissions are primarily run by retired insurance company executives and CEOs. They also have a huge lobby at both the state and federal level, which pretty much allows them to do anything they wish.

Age descrimination--you betcha! It exists everywhere. While some businesses will give seniors a 10% discount to get our business, this is not the case with insurance companies. They damned well know that by law we cannot drive our motor vehicles without first obtaining insurance. Consequently, they can establish bullsh** sur-charges, most of which are based upon figures they generate to justify those increases in premium.

In reality, despite our constantly failing body parts, seniors, in most cases, are better drivers than teens and adolescent adults. They tend to drive a bit slow, they're more cautious and they drive far less than those who still must make a daily commute to work and home. They usually do not drive drunk, they tend to be far more curtious and when road conditions are marginal, they'll more than likely not go on the road at all. Granted, we all see stories about the 95-year-old that drove through a store window, or hit a half-dozen people at a bus stop. However, these instances are extremely rare, so rare in fact, that the news media jumps on it as if someone just landed on Mars. What we do not see is the millions of uninsured drivers that get into accidents every day. We don't seem to hear much about the illegal aliens that make up a huge number of the uninsured that drive illegally throughout the nation.

IMO, if I were an insurance company, I would do anything to attract the business of senior citizens--including provide them with lower rates. Unfortunately, greed does strange things to people, and insurance companies seem to be run by greedy people.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 02-15-2008).]

Bebop, saw my father-in-law's insurance rate skyrocket at the age of 80, ands his agent was a relative. Sad that costs increrase when income sometimes decreases.


Russ

thank you my friends for your in depth replies.
My point is and was that I am not happy with my wife a non driver being surcharged because she reached 65. I have long ago accepted that I pay a surcharge for myself, due to my age. That is well and good because I am the driver, even though I have been driving RV's in combined lenght since 1979 with never a claim. We traveled full time, playing concerts all over the country, in a 40 foot 5th wheel RV with a sedan one ton dually pulling it for 5 years. we returned home without a scratch on either unit. I think the point really is that I have paid them preminums for many vehicles in the last 60 years and never drawn against those premiums, so I should now have all the credits I need to contine my coverage without additional cost. To surchage me 124.00 a year because my non driving wife had a birthday?? Time for some changes to be made.
Thanks again to all you that posted thoughtful insightful comments regarding this situation.
Incidently pay back is hell right. What goes around comes around
I have just decided that I will not be buying a new GM car that I have scheduled for this year and instead will buy from another company, even though I have a 2000.00 discount from GM that I will be cancelling.
I think those decisions will offset their decision to screw me over for a lousy 124.00 a year that represents very little to both of us.
I am also posting in RV magazines and forums so everybody knows their rules with more then a 14 day notice
I don't get mad, I get even
Best to all,
Bill

Think about that for a minute, Bebop...

That $2000 discount you have could be considered, if you care to look at it a certain way, as an underwriting of this extra expense for the next seven years...

You possibly may not be even driving yourself by that time! At the very least, it makes the increase moot.

Don't cut your nose off to spite your face

Bill,

They are lying to you to spare your feelings. The real reason they are charging you more is because you are a musician, and everyone knows how THEY are. Drugs, dope, alcohol, loose women, fast cars, and sex, all these put you at a high risk.

Tom

How about this. If, on your next airline flight, the captain came over the intercom and announced (before takeoff) that he will soon be celebrating his 77th birthday and oh, by the way, "the co-pilot would not be joining us for this flight". Or, imagine a 12,000 lb. vehicle coming towards you with a closing speed of 130mph (65<->65) with an elderly gentleman at the wheel and with a passing distance of +- 10ft. Comfortable? This is probably how the insurance company sees it. Don't get me wrong. I think they are a bunch of blood-sucking leeches in most instances, but for some reason, senior citizen drivers scare the hell out of me. (Let's not forget that I am one). I know this is an unpopular position on this particular board, but I gotta tell you, when I see a 'little ol' lady' driving in a mall parking lot, I go on full alert. Maybe I've been watching my wife drive too long. Aaaaarrrrrgggg (in the words of Donald from New Jersey).

chas

Chas,

What scares me a lot more is some drug-crazed youngster, yacking on his or her cellular phone, while five other similar-aged youngsters are raising hell in the vehicle. Each has something in at least one hand, usually something from a nearby fast-food restaurant, and the person on the cell phone is talking to someone on the back seat of the car, often looking at them in the rear-view mirror while the close on the ass-end of your car at 75-MPH while you're sitting dead stopped at a red light. I see this crap every day, and it scares the living hell out of me. Little old ladies entering a parking lot at 5-MPH will usually find a parking spot, not hit anyone in the process, and if you reached the same parking spot at the exact same time, she would probably allow you to park while she searched for another parking space. And, for this, her insurance company wants to charge premium prices? What a crock of s**t!

Sorry, I really get riled up about this kind thing. I appologize to anyone that may be offended. And, if you want to kick my old, aging ass off the forum, that's OK too.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Here in Australia we used to have state owned and Mutual Insurance Companies now as far as I know they have been sold or turned into companies with shareholders with the resultant disappearance of one form of competition.
We fools let it happen.

Cousin ken

Insurance is a very complex issue.

We in the USA spend a LOT of money on all kinds of insurance in our lives - life, health, auto, homeowners, etc., etc, ... AND YET, we probably understand less about insurance and how it works, how rates are developed, etc. than any other product or commodity we purchase ...

Look at the basic premise - we are paying to protect ourselves against an event we hope will NEVER happen ... When we buy life insurance, we are betting the insurance company that we will DIE - so if we win the bet WE LOSE !!! ...

Rates are based on actuarial tables that show the 'probability' of an event occurring, based on past experience ... it may never happen, but the probability is there ...

"Life is not fair. Insurance is even more unfair." .. sure, until we have a loss that is covered by the insurance company ...

"Unfortunately, the insurance companies have the upper hand--mainly because the state insurance commissions are primarily run by retired insurance company executives and CEOs. They also have a huge lobby at both the state and federal level, which pretty much allows them to do anything they wish."
In reality, one of the most difficult things for an insurance company to do is get a rate increase ... Volumes of material must be presented to a board at the Insurance Department and to independent actuaries selected by the Ins Dept ... very often the rate request is either denied, or reduced, and in either case, the insurance company pays a fee to file for the increase, and pays for the independent actuary, whether an increase is granted or not ...
And, from experience, Insurance Departments are NOT the friend of insurance companies.

"However, insurance companies are in it for the money."
Is there a commercial enterprise that isn't "in it for the money" ... in fact, how many of US would do what we do if we didn't get paid ???

"Age descrimination--you betcha! It exists everywhere." ... yes it does, and sometimes it is very justified ... Do we want people under 16 - 18 (depending on the State) to drive a vehicle on the public roads (I think we should raise the driving age to AT LEAST 18 yrs.) ... Do we want people under 18 to vote? ... do we want people under 21 to drink? ... and do we want people over 90 yrs to drive? - not without a driving test every year, IMHO - ...
Generally, there is more than adequate experience to justify decisions that are made based on age ...

As I said at the opening, insurance is a complex thing... and, yes, there are often stories that make you wonder, and seem 'out of whack' ... but all too often the general public is too quick to rant and rave against a very necessary and important commodity with out knowing the facts on which to make an objective opinion ...
A wise man once told me "The most difficult thing about purchasing insurance is that there is nothing tangible for you to see or feel ... and when you do get to collect on it, you are generally in a mood that WHATEVER you get is not satisfactory" ...

Just my opinion, but one based on "a little" knowledge and experience ...

"And, if you want to kick my old, aging ass off the forum, that's OK too." ...
Not me, I'm not goin' anywhere ...

t.

and Tony, this differs from my first post how?

chas

I have a partner in the warehouse I own who is in his mid 70's. He has a pick-up, a vintage Mustang and a Lincoln. Every time he come in to the warehouse he has a part of a tree extending from under the vehicle, a primed fender, a bent-up bumper, etc.

I take an older gentlemen to his weekly Kiwanis meeting. It's the oldest Kiwanis club in town. At 11:45, the hotel parking lot is a scary place. There are lots of full size Olds, Buick and Caddys with rear end creases, etc.

I believe in individual rights, but sometimes manditory driving capability testing makes sense to me, and I "ain't no spring chicken"!

Russ

I'm sorry, but I can't stop laughing. I know it's a serious issue but just visualizing Russ's scenario above made me go into a belly laugh. Hey, if I weren't an ol' fart myself, I probably wouldn't find it so funny. Hey, we tease ourselves with all kinds of "old" jokes; why can't we admit that we may no longer be the world's greatest drivers.

chas

The thing is, just like elderly drivers, these youngsters are HEAVILY charged by the insurance companies because of these kinds of habits. It's exactly the same response as raising the rates on the elderly driver. No-one is being treated better or worse than another...

The scariest time on the road down here in Florida is the couple of weeks overlap between the Snowbirds heading back up North, and the arrival of of the spring-breakers. Bad drivers going too fast AND too slow at the same time make for some hairy moments!

When I was in Florida, (non-elderly) locals referred to those white-haired little ol' ladies as "Q-tips". I thought it was funny and kind of cute, even if a tad disrespectful. Do they do that in your neck of the woods, Diki (I was in the Tampa area)?

chas

chas ... I don't understand your reaction ...
I was just stating my opinion, gathered from my years of working in the insurance industry ... if I tread on yours, I apologize !!!

t.

HI ALL,
First of all thank you very much to all of you that have posted to this thread. This is a real insight to how people think about insurance and also about getting ripped off.
Yesterday I drove this motorhome of 26,000 pounds that is near 60 feet long with the car I am towing from San Jose to Pismo Beach, Ca in some of the heaviest holiday traffic I have seen, a distance of 200 miles each way and I am once again one of the majority that will not have an insurnace claim going or coming.
My wife just paid an extra 124.00 a year so she could have her birthday and did not drive as usual.
One of my email correspondents pointed out that I need to make our RV companies and magazines more aware of this problem because it is the seniors that buy their products and are among the safest group of drivers in the risk catagories today. Perhaps we need them to lobby more strongly against age discrimination.
thanks again to all. You all wrote excellent responses and I do appreciate you all.
The sun is shining, the sky is blue, it is warm and it is a perfect day here at Pismo Beach.
Best to all,
Bebop

This is a follow up to this thread and it is now several months later.
I moved the motorhome to Explorer Insurance who specialized only in RV, RV TOADS, and Tow Vehicles (trucks)and they not only have no surcharge for a non driving family household member but in fact gave me a substantial discount over the GMAC offer.
I am pleased.
I am sure sorry that GM is going bankrupt but I can begin to understand why. I also have two of their cars and have had similiar problems with their warranties on them.
Incidently my wife just retired from 40 years in the insurance business as a Comercial Lines Broker and account manager, so we/she do know a little bit about insurance and insurance companies and the state comissioners political office.
Thanks again to all who posted.
I did get this included in all the RV magazines that I am a member or subscriber too and I think that is most of them.
Best to all,
Bebop.
PS: I am 76 this year and would have no objection to both or either a written and driving test in your own RV. In fact I would encourage it based on some of the drivers I have seen, listened to or talked to
Bb

Might I suggest that you put a OT: in the title so folks who don't have lots of extra time will know... more over tis a catch 22 you post it here as no one will read it over there and they won't read it over there as we post OT stuff here...
just a thought.

Hope it works out for you tho...

Normally I would post this in the bar but...everyone needs to know about it

the thread title will tell the other 99 % of members that it is off topic
Bebop

It's not just the older folks the insurance companies nail. As a 49 year old never married adult male I am still treated as the irresponsible 18-25 year old reckless male driver. My premiums would be less if I was married. So marriage = responsibility??
Are people who are married 4 or 5 times even more responsible?? hehehe -charley