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#226274 - 02/06/08 09:37 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
Here's what confuses me...

No arranger I have EVER played has ever had a problem with WHEN I hit the fill button. In fact, the whole POINT of a Fill button is to be able to trigger it whenever you want... Need a full, bar long transition, hit it on the 'one'. Need a short pickup? Hit it on the 'three'. Need something in the middle? You get the point.

I am amazed that this doesn't drive you CRAZY, having to remember, in the heat of battle, that a particular fill, for a particular style, MUST be hit accurately on a particular beat. This is not the essence of arranger usage, IMO. It's bad enough I have to remember to hit an Ending in the bar BEFORE I need it (wish they would just jump in like Fills), but this loss of spontaneity for such an important feature you use on every song you play would drive me insane.

This, and the only two or three fills per style are deal-breakers for me. I see no point in going back to a system that has been superseded on most other arrangers for ten years or more...

Sad, as there is much to like about the new Korg's, but the lack of any improvement on this issue after all their competition has left them in the dust makes me wonder where their head is. Dual MP3 players, no problem. Smooth fills, not so... I don't want a karaoke machine... I want an ARRANGER.
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#226275 - 02/06/08 10:48 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Diki,
the korg actually has 3 modes for triggering
it's fills.
The default mode syncs to the style immediately & starts playing depending on where you are in the bar.ie if you hit it on the second beat of the bar, the fill starts on the second beat of the fills' bar instead of the first beat.
2nd mode, it starts playing immediately also, but from the beginning (ie 1st beat of of the fills bar.
3rd mode it starts playing at the beggining of the next bar , so doesn't matter when you trigger it.
The first 2 modes you just have to be a bit more acurate when you press the fill.

The first 2 modes sound a bit more along the lines of what you're reffering to as being the norm.

The setting is also saved for that particular style, so you can set up the styles however you want, including the fourteen different types of fill settings I mentioned in one of the other posts.

Like if I decide to have fill 1 trigger variation 1 & 2, & fill2 trigger variation 3& 4 , I save the setting for that style. The next style I may want fill 1 to trigger vari 3 & 4 & fill2 to trigger var 1&2, again I just save the setting for that style..
Very versatile.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-06-2008).]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-06-2008).]
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226276 - 02/06/08 10:54 PM Re: My take on the PA800
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
spot on, diki! ^^^
i am right there at this moment, this two things i remeber from my past experience with korg, as probably only dark side of it.
;(

on the other hand, rikki, having this many many settings (not only for fills, but generally speaking) that lacks in roland, makes me think about korg again and again.

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 02-06-2008).]
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#226277 - 02/07/08 12:49 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Spalding 4 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 96
Loc: UK
rikkisbears you beat me the post ! That was a very succinct explanation of how the fills can be triggered on the Korg arranger keyboards but unless users dig in to the instrument they will not know this.

Zuki , tne more you actually get into the instrument the more you are going to love it. I have no idea why you feel the pa would NEVER REPLACE your Yammy s900 in live play. The PA series is a live players dream instrument if you get to grips with the OS. I am not pluggin the Korg Arranger Secrects DVD for any other reason than the fact that i think it would help you immensely. We created the DVD's specifically to help users understand the dynamite they had at their fingertips and probably were unaware of it !

Korg have simply left the market to find out for themselves. This instruments capabilities should never have been left a "secret" .

PS the Korg Arranger Secrets project has been set up on a non profit basis.Any monies we make over and above our costs are being used to discount the costs of future Tutorial DVD's. We are planning a 4th to add to the current set of 3.

Didnt mean to hijack your thread mate.

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#226278 - 02/07/08 01:24 AM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Adimatis,
after 3 months or more, I'm still discovering settings & stuff this keyboard has & can do.
If somethings not working quite how I'd hoped, there's usually a solution or setting I've missed somewhere.
For instance I luved the OTS settings on my psr1500, the way the melody sounds change with each variation.
The Korg has the equivalent called STS's only thing was, mine weren't changing with the variations.Took me a while to realize the Single Touch setting button had to be flashing for the STS's to change with the variations.

Amittedly you're still stuck with 2 fills,+ break, but being able to direct which variation they're going to affect makes a big difference. With off they do a self fill, you can send them to variation 1 or 2 or 3 or 4, they can step up or down increments, you can set one up to do vari1 & 2 or 1 &3 or 2 & 3 any combination & they & it the fill alternates between the 2 chosen variations.
The beaut part is it's not a global setting that affects all the styles , but a performance setting that affects a single style.

Personally there's a couple of reasons I wouldn't have bought a Roland again.
No Pads, they're brilliant the way they work in the PA800, the sync options are better than in my psr1500. It has one additional one.
I beleive the pads on earlier Korgs were fairly ordinary?? Someone told me they improved on the PA1X??
And Roland as far as I'm aware still doesn't have a percussion track?? For me the fact that I like to be able to convert styles, would make it a bit more difficult because all the other major keyboards as far as I'm aware use percussion & drum tracks. Trying to cram them into one track would make it even more difficult to edit drum velocities & non gm standard drum notes.

Obviously Korgs don't suit everyone, but if you're planning on changing keyboards, might be worth a look. Download the main manual first & have a look thru. There is an extended manual on Sound editing & the Audio Loop Groove functions for drum tracks & pads.

best wishes
Rikki.

Quote:
Originally posted by adimatis:
spot on, diki! ^^^
i am right there at this moment, this two things i remeber from my past experience with korg, as probably only dark side of it.
;(

on the other hand, rikki, having this many many settings (not only for fills, but generally speaking) that lacks in roland, makes me think about korg again and again.

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 02-06-2008).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226279 - 02/07/08 02:08 AM Re: My take on the PA800
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
thanks!
the pa800 manual is open right now, i read about things there...
yes, i would like to try the new pa, it'll be only pa500, and i'm waiting for the manual to be posted on korgpa.com.

i'll know in about one month time if i will change keyboards or not this spring!
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Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#226280 - 02/07/08 05:40 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Princess Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Michigan
hi,pa800, this is also a nice feature,on the screen select velocity control,by defalt it is off,choose fill 1 or 2,per need exit, if you like save it, just punch the chord on the left hand a little harder, it will automatically trigger a fill in,PAULA/// I like the pa800 more every day
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#226281 - 02/07/08 05:57 AM Re: My take on the PA800
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
Diki,

The couple fills on a few styles are not detrimental enough to keep me away from the marvels of the 800 (and if they can be easily fixed, so what?). But 99% is fine and very cool. BTW, there are a couple glitches in the 900. I have to mute certain instruments in glitchy styles to use them. Also, in the past, my VA and E series had serious fill glitches, which drove me crazy too.

The features this board has are starting to surface from members.

Believe me, this is inspiring to play, if you're a good player. I know you'd love it I couldn't wait to get up this morning to keep going at my list in order to eventually take it live.

I thought I'd never be able to do my G Miller medley, but in the songbook it has terrific settings for In The Mood and others.

NOTHING is perfect But this is keeping me up late at night and awake early in the morning.

zuki
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Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#226282 - 02/07/08 06:14 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:
Diki,
Believe me, this is inspiring to play, if you're a good player. I know you'd love it I couldn't wait to get up this morning to keep going at my list in order to eventually take it live.

NOTHING is perfect But this is keeping me up late at night and awake early in the morning.

zuki




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#226283 - 02/07/08 06:55 AM Re: My take on the PA800
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:

The couple fills on a few styles are not detrimental enough to keep me away from the marvels of the 800 (and if they can be easily fixed, so what?). But 99% is fine and very cool. BTW, there are a couple glitches in the 900. I have to mute certain instruments in glitchy styles to use them. Also, in the past, my VA and E series had serious fill glitches, which drove me crazy too.



I'm sure you'll find your way around the PA-800 and make it your own...that's where all the fun is...I don't use any factory styles on the S900, but they were a great basis for my own.

Fills are easy to fix...you'll soon be using it "live".

Ian
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