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#224181 - 01/14/08 11:03 AM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I know, I know...what was I thinking?
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#224182 - 01/15/08 01:18 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40867
Well this morning after a wonderful breakfast & watching Fran hoof down a spectacular portion of "Bananas Foster Waffles" topped with mounds of whipped cream like a 12 year old little boy we ventured back to the Studio & I got my first chance to Look at and actually Play a Roland E60 which was proudly perched on the top tier of his TOTL Flagship Roland G70 arranger.

At first glance I was very impressed with the Look & Design. Sleek, elegant, built with Roland quality with a very sturdy mix of hard case "Plastic & Metal" with a nice overall professional color scheme. Layout & buttons all of top quality, multi colored lighted & just the right feel and size for easy navigation on the deck face. The touch screen display although not color is crisp, clean, and very well illuminated for reading & making changes with more buttons along the sides for fast changes, eg: makeup tools, exit, etc, etc. At 18 or so pounds lighter then the G70 it is a pleasure to carry & transport. With 76 keys it is a pleasure to play.....& the Key-feel is very nice, somewhere in between the G70(which are longer) & the PA800 to my touch....great spring tension also. The on-board Speakers are very adequate for home use. Dual headphone front jacks are a nice touch also.
I immediately was able to get around the E60 and go though the styles which are very nice & very Live playing useful thru all the variations....skimming thru the sounds is a cinch and most really sound wonderful & robust which Roland is known for. Piano, Trumpet, Alto Sax, Strings, Accordions & Guitars were super for sure, velocity sensitive makes for very expressive playing them.... Another added very useful feature is the "D" beam. Getting familiar with the E 60 was very easy for me because of my previous ownership of the G1000, E600, Discover 5, & G70 arrangers.
Great sequencer also....
Although there is no Mic processor on the E60.... Anyone that sings easily can route vocals thru a Mixer with Efx instead with no problem. There is SO much more to get into regarding the E60's features to list here...I can truly recommend the E60 arranger to anyone who is looking for a professionally feature packed, Great sounding 76 KEY Arranger Keyboard that you will definitly enjoy playing.. I wish I could have spent more time with it....to tell you more.
BEST Bang for the buck for sure.

Thanks


PS. Cass dont wait grab one of these asap ....your gonna love it!




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-15-2008).]

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#224183 - 01/15/08 01:45 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
While they are perched on top of each other, Fran, could you do a few direct A/B's of the same patches?

Please make sure that Mastering Tools presets are the same (if the E60 has Mastering tools, if not, defeat them on the G70).

I have heard a few things done on the Classic piano (supposedly the same as the GrandX patch in the G70), but it sounds MUCH darker, duller, whatever... Perhaps there is a cutoff tweak that could get it MUCH closer, but only someone with both would be able to compare. After that, it might be easier to see if Roland have compromised with shorter samples, or fewer.

Also, with the both of them sent to the same monitors, it might be possible to determine if the quality of the D/A's is the same, or has Roland cut corners a little (they tend to do this, like with the G1000/G600 comparison).

This is a fascinating opportunity to find out empirically what Roland do to make something SO close (in certain ways) to a G70 so affordable. Just be SURE you are doing apples to apples (make sure, for instance, that any Part EQ is defeated on both arrangers) and the volumes are identical (meters should be the same).

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#224184 - 01/15/08 02:27 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9222
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Diki, I have done exactly that..I run the E-60 into the Audio inputs on the G70..and listen from the G70 headphones or out put to sound system..

The classic piano is the closest to the Grand X [so close I can't tell the difference]..and yes the filter can brighten the classic piano more...

I turn all effects off , including keyboard and master effects..and I balance the volume levels of the E and G...
The dynamics from each keybed is very similar too..

I originally thought[last year] that the sounds were different[from on line demos]..but, now I believe they are the same...even the blow alto vib and jazz scat are identical..

I searched to see how large the wav memory is, but can't find it anywhere..

I think that the E-60 is more keyboard than I and many others thought it would be..

The built quality is nothing like the EXR series..in fact I think it may be better built than the VA series[VA-7]..

As I mentioned earlier..what is missing from the G-70:

The keys are less weighted, but still fun to play.

No vocal input or harmonizer..

one less lower and upper tone selections..

No audio inputs..

No mastering effects other than bass enhancement for speakers..

No color screen[16 gray shades]..

Smaller internal memory [17mgs].

Also no separate part eq..

And the E-70 lost 18 pounds somewhere..


If someone stole both my G70 and my E-60...the first board I would replace first, would be the G70, because we must remember, all these great features are comparing to the G70..and true to form the G70 is better..

But , If I was in no need of a mic input/harmonizer, and audio inputs...The E-60 makes every bit of sense..You have all the Covers, and all the sequencing power too and reads the G70 data from the G70 card..even from my 1 gig card..
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#224185 - 01/15/08 03:54 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
So, the E-60 would make a fine (and much lighter) alternative to the G70, considering the user wouldn't have need of the vocal feature.

The other major benefit would be the on board speakers.

That's good to know, Fran.

A very well done evaluation, I must say.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#224186 - 01/15/08 04:17 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9222
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Ian, I believe that is true..I have going through 100's of sounds, playing via midi from the G70 keybed..and the like named sounds are virtually identical sounding..

The classic piano was my favorite when I first played the E-60..no wonder ..it is nearly if not exactly like the grand X..[with a little filtering]..

I really would like to know if Roland is using the same sound chip[ or most of the same sounds without compression to reduce the wav size]..

Here is my suggestion to Roland..Add the mic input and audio ins..and maybe the vocalist too...even for another $500.. It puts the board in a "must have" price range..even at 64 polyphony..

Even without my suggestion..The E-60 is a winner..There is no competition in a 76 key arranger..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#224187 - 01/15/08 04:43 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I think the 64 note poly could be a limitation for some, but, then again, that may not be as big an issue considering there are "one less lower and upper tone selections".

E-60s are pretty scarce...I've only seen ONE in all the stores in my territory which is the four Atlantic provinces.

G70 was the same...just one...and most of the stores I visit are quite large and well stocked.

Roland's arranger marketing, at least here in Canada, seems to be a bit slipshod...too bad as these 'boards are good products.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#224188 - 01/15/08 05:21 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9222
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Diki, I have run across several sounds that definitely do not have the same quality of the same patches on the G70..especially in the mid range..Some tones , can hardly be heard in the low range on the E-60 where they are fine on the G70..I think Roland has left some sounds as close as possible to the G70, but across the board [pun intended]..The G70 sound bank is superior...
If you didn't have the boards side by side and scrutinizing every key at different velocities..you would not know there to be a difference...

I have the program change from the G70 to the E-60..selects the same or similar patch and made it easy to compare them..After 500 patches or so...my conclusion is the wav sample rom is definitely smaller than the G70...but they did a heck a of job on this board..
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www.francarango.com



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#224189 - 01/15/08 06:11 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Thanks, Fran. Pretty much (again) as I expected.

It is unbelievable just how bad Roland's distribution has gotten on the arranger line. At first, I thought it was just a US issue, with the move from MI to CK dealers, but from Ian's post, and many others' from Europe, that this is a corporate decision at the highest level.

Yamaha must be laughing their heads off at this colossal marketing misstep... To be honest, were it not for how difficult to demo and purchase the E60 is, their stance on having NO 76 at all might cost them a LOT more than it already has...

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#224190 - 01/15/08 07:34 PM Re: My first comparison between the E-60 and the G70
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3707
Loc: Motown
I have scoured the net and called a dozen CK dealers looking for anyone who even knows anything about the E-60. The dealers are completely in the dark on this one. Not only do they not stock them, they don't want to order them. It seems Roland makes the dealers buy more than one or two. One dealer near me has 12 G70's and has only sold two. She says that electronic keyboard players never come into that store, and they only sell a few digital console pianos. They are basically a Steinway and grand piano dealer. Even the GC's that are CK dealers only stock a few lines; no E's at all.

What a shame. Roland is shooting itself in the leg and missing the boat on this - BIG TIME.

Besides, now Fran won't be selling the E-60 to me for a lot longer than I planned
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Riding on the Avenue of Time
cassp50@gmail.com

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