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#224005 - 01/09/08 06:16 PM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:

Diki .....have you performed thru the Bose PAS system yet....? Could be a great system with your duo act.


btw where did you play for NYE this year?



I haven't used one personally, but I had a friend who had one (a great keyboard player - no arranger, just solo piano) and just wasn't impressed. They ARE very clear, with what I would call a typical Bose 'sculpted' sound, just a bit lacking in 'presence' and mid-range, but very accurate highs.

I think the problem with them is that the sub carries just a bit too much of the load, and of course it is on the floor, rather than up high, where it can project better. For many, this is exactly what they need, and I can understand many liking them, but in fairness, I am not a big fan of ANY of Bose's stuff... The old Bose 702 series (I think that was them, similar to 802) were incredibly inefficient (you needed a BIG power amp and the processor for a good sound), and most of their home audio is very lacking in mids, IMO.

For reference, I use Mackie HR824 reference monitors at home, B&W monitors at the studio, and JBL SRX series speakers at gigs. I just find that, compared to these standard reference monitors, the Bose's ALL have little mid-range presence, exactly where you need warmth and accuracy for vocals, sax sounds, etc.. But this is just my personal taste. For that 'background', don't interfere with dining conversation sound, the Bose's may be just right. I rarely play that type of gig, though.

My preference is to be right 'in your face' at the dance floor, and I LIKE to drop off quickly, not throw to the back of the room at little change in listening level. People go to the back of the room for a reason... They want to talk to the girl or guy the just picked up on the dance-floor. If the level is the same at the back to what they danced to, they can't talk! (Assuming you are kicking ass on the dance-floor!)

Restaurant, low volume gigs I can see the Bose being perfect. But for more high energy, or 'featured' music, I just don't see them working for me (got to add that!)...

BTW, I played a four-piece gig for NYE, great players (drummer won a Grammy, guitar player is one of the best in the area). My regular guitarist goes to Oregon for the winter (Nov-Feb), so this time of year I get my ya-ya's off with a bunch of different outfits... Mostly live playing (but still all on my G70 - everybody loves the sound of it, especially the piano and B3 sim!). I just feel that playing with others is necessary to keep a reality check on arranger use... It's all too easy to forget what things are SUPPOSED to sound like, rather than what your arranger MAKES you sound like! Still no substitute for the real thing, IMO
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#224006 - 01/09/08 06:38 PM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Diki.....thanx for the great reply and opinion on the Bose, I agree with many things you voiced....there are so many different views.....but like I always have said use YOUR ears for YOUR needs for sure...

Sounds like you had a great NYE gig also mixing it up with some kool players....must have been a blast for sure!!

l8tr

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#224007 - 01/09/08 06:43 PM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I

...most of their home audio is very lacking in mids, IMO.

For reference, I use Mackie HR824 reference monitors at home, B&W monitors at the studio, and JBL SRX series speakers at gigs. I just find that, compared to these standard reference monitors, the Bose's ALL have little mid-range presence, exactly where you need warmth and accuracy for vocals, sax sounds, etc..

My preference is to be right 'in your face' at the dance floor, and I LIKE to drop off quickly, not throw to the back of the room at little change in listening level. People go to the back of the room for a reason... They want to talk to the girl or guy the just picked up on the dance-floor. If the level is the same at the back to what they danced to, they can't talk! (Assuming you are kicking ass on the dance-floor!)

Restaurant, low volume gigs I can see the Bose being perfect. But for more high energy, or 'featured' music, I just don't see them working for me (got to add that!)...



A good evaluation of the Bose characteristic sound, Diki...mids are weak.

I have tried the Bose L1 several times, just to be certain that it wasn't for me.

Besides the phase cancellation on my 3k and now my S900, the lack of mids was quite apparent and not the sound I want.

I use B&W monitors for studio work as well...I've got an old pair of DM110 that I've had for ages...nice tight transparent sound.

I also agree on needing the sound to drop off, although, in my case, it IS a restaurant gig...and you're right...some people want to be able to sit away from the sound for various reasons and the Bose fills up the room so much...it's not going to happen.

Certainly it is well made gear and a good choice for some...just not for me.

I'll stick with my Yamaha MS-60S powered monitors...they're the bee's knees for me.

Ian
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#224008 - 01/09/08 08:01 PM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
btweengigs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 2204
Loc: Florida, USA
No argument here. If Bose was perfect for everyone, the other manufactures would go the way of American Motors.

For me and my gigs....there has been nothing better than the Bose L1.

Just tonight I had a conversation with a very good buddy (and traditional stereo guy) and it became very obvious those of us who have tried and liked different systems become passionate about them.

I love my Bose and hope you love whatever you are using.

Eddie

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#224009 - 01/09/08 09:25 PM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
If you aren't hearing enough mids, it's SO easy to adjust it. Anyway, I hope nobody else gets one, at least close to me!
DonM
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#224010 - 01/09/08 09:35 PM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 541
Loc: Australia
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.............

Well that point Diki raised I didn't even think of.

Now I'm worried.

We're just the kind of "in your face" feature/dance act that Diki described.

The great Bose advantage of filling the room also may be a great DISADVANTAGE.

In some venues we start off "Dinner volume", but ALWAYS by the end of the night we have to kick it pretty hard.

People could move to the back of the room to "escape" us, but the Bose doesn't give you that option......

As for the lacking mids comment, I'm convinced that the model 2 system (latest Bose PAS) is a different beast to the 1st one, and the different EQ settings for different rooms would have to be used as well.

I'll audition soon.

Anyone else agree with Diki - this system is strictly for "laid back" venues/gigs???/

(Thanks for all the feedback so far...love you guys!)
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#224011 - 01/10/08 02:06 AM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6482
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by hellboy44:
Anyone else agree with Diki - this system is strictly for "laid back" venues/gigs???/


Well not really. My band is a live classic rock band using Roland V-Drums thru the L1 as well as reinforcing the keyboards and 2 electric guitars in addition to the vocals of course. We play some AC/DC, Van Halen, Divinyls, Red Hot Chilli Peppers etc. ..... not exactly laid back. Admittedly we are not using the Bose subs but a 15" JBL sub woofer that can move some serious air, but then it does have to generate the drum sounds over 2 electric guitars and bass. That would not really be needed for arranger keyboard use where I think the Bose subs would be more than adequate.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 01-10-2008).]

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#224012 - 01/10/08 04:06 AM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
The guys that love them love them.

whether or not you use it (or any choice of equipment) does not make you taller, or smarter, or prettier or intellectually superior. We all worked before our present setups came and and will work into the next generation of equipment.
They don't transform you into a better musician, a lame act is still the same just louder and with better coverage.
For Me:
The Bose has replaced 2 15" and horn cabinets, two poles, sub woofer (sometimes 2). Power amps, cables, equalizers, crossovers, & monitors.
For private parties, & smaller venues, sometimes space is at a premium and with the Bose I can set up in 1/3 the space without compromising on a smaller system.

I really don't understand the passion from those that don't own them and want everyone else to buy their brand.
I want all my competitors to buy 100 dollar speakers from radio shack.
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#224013 - 01/10/08 05:57 AM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeathome1:

I really don't understand the passion from those that don't own them and want everyone else to buy their brand.


Personally, I don't care what brand a person buys, but the Bose L1, because of it's "room-filling" nature, would not be suitable in some situations and potential users/buyers should be made aware of them.

I know it wouldn't work at my restaurant gigs... there may be others who work in the same or similar situation as mine...they should know the drawbacks/disadvantages of using a system such as the Bose L1.

The only thing I'm passionate about is sounding good in the venues I play....brand doesn't matter....I use what works best for me.


Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#224014 - 01/10/08 08:19 AM Re: Guys, some advice re the BOSE PAS
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
No one thing is perfect for all conditions, including the Bose, but it comes close for me in most instances.
It CAN be a problem if you want to restrict the sound to a smaller area. At the restaurant where I work most, there are other rooms in which you can hear my sound when I crank it up a little. There is one small area toward the left and back of the room in which I play that the sound is actually louder than it is on the dance floor directly in front of me. I finally figured out that it was because of wall surfaces, mirrors, windows, etc. Not a big problem, but occasionally a party will sit back there because traditional wisdom tells them it will be quieter. That's not the case with the Bose. So far there has been nothing that I couldn't easily deal with though.
I still have occasional guests who don't want to sit near the band stand "because it's too loud", even though they haven't been seated. Their experience with traditional bands have understandably caused this. Now, the waiters are telling them to try it and if it's too loud we'll move you. They never ask to be moved.
DonM
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