H
I have a KN7000, and I am happy with it, it's a great keyboard. A few weeks ago I played a PSR 2100, different. At first I did not like it, but after playing a bit, I found it has a great feel for dance music. Great drums--great basses.

Here's my question; Since I own a KN7000, I thought the Tyros would be over-kill, so I placed an order for a PSR2100. I have a week before they get them in stock, there is still some time for me to reconsider my choice.

What do I lose by not buying the Tyros?
And are there any features in the PSR2100 that are not int the Tyros?

I did read about the fill-ins playing continuously on the PSR2100 but not the Tyros.

I'm open to any thoughs, Thanks, John C.

You lost a user upgradable operating system, more & better styles, more & better voices, and the ability to have an internal hard drive, but you saved 2 grand. With what you saved dollarwise it depends on what you do with the 2 grand to determine whether you made a wise decision. I read comments good/bad for both the Tyros/2100.

Not to mention loosing the Tryos's incredible sense of style

If you can stretch to it and don't need the smallness, portability and integral speakers of the 2100 then the Tyros is a good investment. Although you will love the 2100, chances are in a few months you'll be thinking of moving to the Tyros! Why wait....!

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__________________________________________________________
SVPworld.com - Creative Multimedia & Music
incorporating PSRworld and Tyrosworld

forum.svpworld.com - No adverts, No spam, No nonsense!
share your music, get help and advice, make new friends! All platforms invited!!

Hey, John C., I think you should at least get the Tyros. The lesser is always the lesser and the best is always the bester of the lester. Look at it this way. If for some reason down the line you become disenchanted with it, like some of the other KN guys did, you will have had a much more valuable lesson. After all, people collect paper weights and door stops just like they collect stamps, china and other things. Taking that into consideration, it will never be a total loss if things don’t work out. Another way of looking at it is you might decide one day to give up playing and go into collecting full time as a hobby. Already you got a good start with your collection. Just look at Bebop! If anybody has got a good start in that direction, he has. Now that is where I think Uncle Dave has made a big blunder. In his determination of acquirement and collection, he sells or trades the old ones. Later on in life when he makes new friends such as Arthur Ites and can’t play much anymore, he will regret not keeping all of his many instruments of music. The opportunity of opening a museum and making real big money displaying the music makers of the past, will have vanished forever. Dave, foresight is always more valuable than hindsight.

Valuable insights from the think tank of old.....

Grandpa Doug

Grandpa Doug,

LOL. Thanks for the wisdom.

Although you will love the 2100, chances are in a few months you'll be thinking of moving to the Tyros! Why wait....!

Now there's a bit of logic that's hard to fight.

Thanks for all your helpful thoughts, it helps a great deal.

UD, I read your post, and I'm still trying to understand what you said/wrote --He he he

THanks again, John C.

Is 'UD' Uncle Dave? You can't understand his post? I can't even find it!

Grandpa Doug

Sorry Grandpa Doug, I stand corrected.
John C.

You know, it's hard to write "GRANDPA",mine are all gone.

John,
It is even harder when he is younger then we are :-)
Bebop

I've said it before but it bears repeating: if you're gonna go then go-rilla! Getting a low or mid-range keyboard will always leave you wondering what you could do if you had a first-rate instrument. That's why you should pass on the Tyros in favor of the 9000 Pro (bahahahaha)...

I have a KN7000 and bought a PSR2100 as a second keyboard recently. It is quite similar to the Tyros. I've wanted a lighter weight keyboard for several years. The PSR2100 is only 23 pounds, sounds great, has a lot of good features. It's my first Yamaha keyboard since the late 80's, and I'm impressed!

In answer to your question, it all depends on WHY you're buying a second keyboard. The Tyros isn't real heavy, but I don't like it having no internal speakers. Also it's quite a bit larger in size. So it didn't full my needs.

Just my two cents on the subject.

I suspect you might be happy with either one of them.

Marilyn

I own both the PSR2000 and the Tyros and the 2000 remains in the closet. In addition to all the pro Tyros comments given by the others, its substantially improved keyboard feel alone make it much 'more satisfying' for me to play.

btw: The 'street price' difference between the Tyros & PSR2100 is actually $1000-1200, not 2 grand ($2000) as rick987 had suggested. I think the PSR2100 a terrific bang for the buck, but (for me) that the additional feature enhancements the Tyros offers make it well worth the extra expense. The only drawback to the Tyros vs PSR2100 is that it doesn't include built in speakers, but the Tyros 'add on' (TRSMS01) speakers sound significantly better than the one's on the PSR2100, and are imho not an inconvenience to take separately or attach (a matter of 10 seconds). Here are some Tyros features not included on the PSR2100 which make a difference to me:

1) Hard drive support

2) Significantly improved 'keyboard action' build quality with much improved (responsive) action.

3) LARGE 'color' tilt LCD screen with much larger font size for much easier reading & improved navigation ease.

4) LARGER physical 'navigation' buttons. Primary arranger buttons are also lighted and change color making for easier confirmation of current status.

5) Dedicated 'intro' (3 each) buttons

6) Dedicated 'ending' (3 each) buttons

7) Separate dedicated mic volume & mic trim buttons located conveniently on top of keyboard for easy on the fly adjustment

8) 3 assignable foot controllers vs 2 on the 2000

9) USB support to provide easy internal Tyros 'file organization' & convenient data backup to PC/CD/DVD. Though the Tyros includes a floppy disk slot, I never need to use it because it's much more convenient (and quicker) to transfer data back & forth between my PC & Tyros via USB.

10) ability to easily edit & customize Tyros voices (sounds) remotely from your desktop PC via "Yamaha Voice Editor" Windows software. The PSR2000 doesn't include this.


Scott

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http://scottyee.com

Quote: Bebop - “It is even harder when he is younger then we are :-)”
Well la-de-da! I might only be a couple months past seventy seven but I have lived much faster than you guys, so there! I must be older! I already got seventeen grand kids and still climbing, which proves it.

Grandpa Doug

Hi G. Doug, Wow, Seventeen grandchildren, I thought I was doing good with fourteen.

And----you just got into to your 77th--Hmmm!
that's great. You sound like a great guy, nice.

John C. 77--Wow

It's my first Yamaha keyboard since the late 80's, and I'm impressed!

Hi Marilyn,Thanks for your reply. I have playd Technics for many years, when I played the PSR 2100 I felt different, I played different. Could you share what you feel when you play the Yamaha? No facts, just feelings.

Thanks so much, John C

I'm having problems adjusting to the smaller key width on the Yamaha keyboards. (Tyros is the SAME as the 2100 !) My hands want to go to the correct position, but the PSR won't let 'em ! Grrrr !
Why on earth did they shrink these keys ????

That is a good deal if it is true.

[This message has been edited by sk880user (edited 09-18-2003).]

I own the PSR2100. For $200 I purchased the HDM2, which is a flash drive you can install in the keyboard, and then it creates up to 170 virtual floppy drives. You can easily change banks during a performance to go to your next favorite midi or style.

Then I purchased a midi controlled sustain switch, so I still get three foot controllers.

I have downloaded all of the Tyros styles which sound great on my keyboard.

So I'm missing the feel, the megavoices, the live! drums, and the ease of a hard drive for storing registrations. You can get all of this for less than $1400, about $1000 less than a Tyros.

Beakybird

I'm not sure how to answer your question. First, I should explain I have NOT played Technic's instruments for years. I played Roland keyboards for many years. Roland seemed to lose their way a few years back in designing keyboards.....at least in my opinion. That is when I discovered Technic's. I happened to stumble across a KN6000 at a music store. I loved it and bought it, then upgraded to the Kn7000, which I like even better. The only real squawk I have about the KN is it's too heavy for me.

I have been hearing all the good words on the Yamaha keyboards and finally decided to take a plunge on one of those. How do I feel, I don't know. I enjoy playing it,I like the operating system. I hadn't played Technic's long enough to have a problem getting used to Yamaha. I have a lot of fun playing it. The support on the internet for it is absolutely the greatest. Styles everywhere!

I know that doesn't really answer your question, but I don't know how to answer it!
I enjoy both keyboards, the sounds and styles are quite different.

Marilyn

You know Uncle Dave, that is really a good question and think it merits some time devoted to researching the reason. Just to refresh our memories I will give Dave's quandary, Quote: “I'm having problems adjusting to the smaller key width on the Yamaha keyboards. (Tyros is the SAME as the 2100 !) My hands want to go to the correct position, but the PSR won't let 'em ! Grrrr ! Why on earth did they shrink these keys ????”.

Well Unc I have undertaken the task of pondering your question and giving it my best. Seems nobody else wants to try their hand at this difficult task so old Doug will take a stab at your query. Every manufacture wants to sell all the product they can. Lets start with this angle. With this in mind comes the question, to who? They have a fancy name for this. Market targeting! Thinking process goes like this. First: large market. Second: plenty of disposable money. Third: Who will buy cheaply made stuff to maximize profit? These three are the nucleus or the most important of the points in the decision of, to who? Kids, yes, kids. Young folks. Parents that will buy them anything they want. Immature minds. Easily persuaded people that can be influenced by their peers. Now you have one reason. Kids have smaller hands. Younger people are more body conscience and have thinner everything including fingers. Thus, shrunk keys, and poorer construction all around. Greater profit. Not bad! Now this could very well account for smaller keys but there are other things that have nothing to do with the first cause of the keys feeling smaller. As you say, “My hands want to go to the correct position, but the PSR won't let 'em ! Grrrr “! Look at it this way Dave. Others have no problem with this, the PSR lets them, with no problem. So let’s think about this. As we become Uncles’ and Grandpas’ we get thicker and thicker. Our waists get thicker, our arms get thicker, our buts’ get thicker, everything gets thicker, even our heads and what’s inside of them sometimes gets thicker. Now it follows that our fingers also get thicker therefore giving an illusion that the keys must be shrinking. Kind of the same way we sometimes think of our pants and shirts. Told Ruthie awhile back she is using too hot of water to wash my stuff in, your shrinking my stuff. She told me to go to you know where. She said my zippers were exploding and my buttons were popping off cause I was getting thicker! Ruthie is always tactful and considers my feelings so she never says I might be getting fat. I like that girl. So Dave let me put it this way. You and your fingers just might be outgrowing a keyboard that is targeted for the younger folks. Don’t want to take up any more space here so I’ll give others a chance to chime in why Uncle Dave’s fingers no longer fit the PSR’s. Don’t be afraid, Dave is good natured, I hope!

Grandpa Doug

Here's my theory Grandpa Doug. Yamaha's Keyboards are designed and produced in Japan. The majority of Japanese are of fairly small stature and likewise in girth. Okay, so you have millions of these 'thin' Japanese and of course they ARE the working force there in Japan. No whities, no blackies, no brownies, just these 'thin' Japanese everywhere. Now these Japanese make all kinds of great products, ie., Cars, Keyboards, Motorcycles, etc. But guess what? 99% of the Cars they make are small. The Motorcycles are again - a 'small' piece of equipment relatively speaking. And their Keyboard Keys are once again 'small' in comparison to some other Manufacturers, eg., Korg, etc. Now you may say - "Well isn't Korg a Japanese company?" Yes, but their Keyboards are made in Italy. At least their Arrangers are. And have you seen some of those Italian Opera singers? You guessed it, there is nothing small about them. Big, large, full bodied people - hands included. So Korg's Arranger Keyboard Designers are living large in Italy and because of it they give their Keyboard Keys an extra 2mm or so width to accomodate the "General" world population - which the vast majority are over 5' tall and weigh over 90 lbs.

I keep buggin' Yammie to give us larger Keys and it appears my pleas are falling on deaf ears. Small deaf ears at that.

PS: No offense intended to the Japanese people. But facts are facts.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 09-18-2003).]

Doug,
As always, your reply was most enjoyable, but there is a huge difference between "thinking" that the keys are shrinking, and actually measuring them. The keys are absolutly, physically smaller (width-wise) than a traditional piano or synth key. Maybe your points about kids is part of their madness, but this is not a question of "my aging hands". Yamaha made the keys smaller, so my original question stands:
WHY?

Mike, I like your full bodied approach. Just like a goot big stein of old German Beer, so to speak. Very, very good. Congrats!!! Must be other well thought out theories lurking out there. Dave must be proud of us helping him out like this.

Grandpa Doug

Dave, I’m sure you must think Mike must be on to something. Your right. Maybe I missed a bit on my theory of the progression of time, but at least you got to admit I gave it a try.

Grandpa Doug, another post and another day older.

Doug was right about 1 thing-it is a marketing ploy. Smaller keys means less material less material means lower costs. Since the 2100 is coming in at the same pricepoint as the 2000 Yamaha can have a bigger margin on each piece sold. Remember 2 things: the only way to increase your margin per piece is to increase the selling price, or decrease the costs. Yamaha chose to decrease the costs, and cut corners when, and wherever possible. Also, no manufacturer will ever produce the perfect product that lasts forever-in time it would put themselves out of business. I get Consumer Reports mag, and every month there is a story about shrinking consumer good products, or packaging. It is not very noticable on the product unless your read the fine print, or in your case get out a ruler and measure. But business is just that-they aren't going to loose money. If you want bigger keys, and Yamaha incorporates them into their next product release they will be probably more fragile and break easier, or maybe a more important feature will be left off. No manufacturer will ever eat production costs. They will either pass them on to customers via price increases, or cut corners somewhere else on the product.

Why? Because Yamaha's been doing this for a long time, well over 100 years. There are more Yamaha pianos and other keyboards out there, than any other brand. Just a fact.
I did some measuring and some research.
Yamaha Pianos (acoustic and digital including all 88 note weighted actions) are 165mm to the octave (standard).
Yamaha organs and synthesizers are 160mm to the octave (standard).
The Yamaha E3 Organ, (the oldest instrument I could find to measure) circa 1969 has a keyboard that is 160mm to the octave.
The Yamaha synthesizer model CS80 (I sure this qualifies as a traditional synth)keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The DX7 (a classic, if not traditional)keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The Motif ES keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The 9000pro keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The Tyros keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The PSR2000 keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The PSR2100 keyboard is 160mm to the octave.
The PSR172 keyboard (currently our least ezpensive model) is 160mm to the octave.
Yamaha didn't invent this key size, but
Yamaha has remained true to this standard for over 30 years (probably a lot longer). It's not shrinking, and it's not changing.

------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America

Steve,

Thank you for contributing to the discussion. I have one question for you:

Other than the mega voices, are the samples on PSR2100 different from Tyros? Many are assuring me that they are different and that Tyros sounds are way better than 2100. Can you confirm that?

I would have bet the farm that the 9000pro had a wider stance than the tyros. There was no trouble adjusting to that one. Must be senility setting in!

uncle dave, grandpa doug is right,we are all concerned that as we get older our body shrinks,it starts at our hands,whats next,ha,ha ,mike

Without going into a lot of tecnical lingo, the Tyros is probably the most versatile keyboard out there. Connected to a set of amps or the Yamaha YST MS50 speakers ( I use Velcro to attach the satilites to the Tyros) the Tyros sounds fantastic. The big band styles are especilly the best i've heard from any arranger. It's worth the extra money. Just my two cents. Bob

Five octaves from C to C measures 32 and 1/2 inches on the PSR2100...Same 5 octaves on Roland G1000 measures 33 and 1/2 inches..this is not a senile difference..

Quote: “Yamaha didn’t invent this key size”.
If Yamaha didn’t invent this key size, who did?
Why do they always have to copy from others?

Quote: “Yamaha has remained true to this standard for over 30 years (probably a lot longer). It's not shrinking, and it's not changing”.
Too bad! Being stuck in a rut is a terrible thing.

Now Dave, good thing you did not bet the farm. Maybe my theory about the fingers, and other things getting thicker, still holds some water. I don’t think senility has anything to do with it. You are still very sharp. Let’s look at it. You were younger when you had the 9000 and had no problem with key with. Now that you have put on a year or so in age, among other things, you now have a problem squeezing in your fingers to match the same key with. Better check. Bill’s suggestion of moving over to an Italian made and Japanese designed board might just be the answer. As he pointed out with his opera singers example, every thing seems to be a little bigger over there. Just trying to help.

Grandpa Doug

Thanks Steve for researching this further.

Agreed, Yamaha has produced and sold more Pianos and Keyboards than ANY other Manufacturer. That being said; The reason they have done this is not because you have stuck to a 'standard' Key size of 160mm to the Octave but because your Keyboards and Pianos are a step ahead of the competition IMO in quality of sound and giving the customer a boat load of features at a reasonable price. As you know, the Korg PA 80's individual Key width size is roughly 2mm wider than, let's say, the Tyros's are. In fact that holds true for all of Yamaha's Arranger Keyboards. I have played the PA80 and I can tell you from personal experience that I felt more comfortable playing on the PA80 than on my PSR 2000. First off you don't have to be so concerned and worried about where your fingers are going to land on the Keys. There is more freedom of movement because of the wider keys, and a more relaxed playing style because of it. And like Fran said, even his Roland G1000's Keybed is 1" inch longer overall in length; which again translates to about 2mm's wider per Key. So there are other Japanese Keyboard Manufacturers that ARE providing their customers with these wider Keys, not just Korg. All kidding aside about the Italian 'connection' regarding Korg, let's take Korg as an example. The Korg Triton does have these wider Keys and of course we all know that the Triton/Pro/Studio flies off the shelves. Could it be that one of the reasons many Musicians purchase the Triton over lets say the Motif series is because of the larger Key size? I would tend to believe they do.

The reason I keep coming back to Yamaha is because of their superior acoustic sounds. But I would have bought a Korg Triton in a heartbeat if their acoustic sounds were better or as good as my new Motif ES7 and one of my major deciding factors in doing so would have been the wider Key size that the Triton has. I can live with smaller Keys but I would prefer not to. That's all I'm saying to Yamaha, is that increasing the width size of your Keyboard's Keys would draw an even larger portion of potential customers into your fold IMHO. Besides, 'standards' are made to be broke if in doing so they benefit not only the end user but also improve and increase Yamaha's customer base (in satisfied customers and MORE customers), and an even greater share of the Keyboard and Piano Market.

Best regards,
Mike

Steve is correct. The Motif and PS2000 sitting here go 32.5 inches across the 5 octaves. The PA80 goes 33.5 inches over 5.

I don't seem to have a whole lot of trouble making the adjustment from the PA80 to the Motif and occasionally I stack them and play them simultaneously, but I do notice the difference when I'm playing, even if I'm not always aware of it. I seem to be able to adjust ok. The thing I can never get used to is the key feel of the 2000. It's horrible, and I would venture to say that my two octave, 30 dollar magnus chord organ from the 60's had a better key feel( ok ..that probably translates to 150 -200 dollars today ). I wish Yamaha would use the same keybed on the PSR's as they do on the Motif.. maybe Steve can tell us why they don't, although my uneducated guess is that it strictly has to do with cost.. Still, a 200 dollar casio ( or it's radio shack clone ) has a better key feel.. just not the rest of the goods to go with it.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 09-19-2003).]

hi,just to make a point,1 inch,equals 2and a half centimetres,ie 25mm,over 5 octaves that is 5mm per octave,less than 1 mm per key,what seems more of a problem to me is this ,if for example i play C,E,G,Bflat with the left hand the forefinger playing the G note each note either side ie,Fsharp and G sharp they rub the side of the finger,thus giving the impression that the keys are smaller,what are your views on this point mike

Uncle Dave and Grandpa Doug,

Maybe Steve was only comparing the length but not the width. I believe that you guys have issues with the width more than the length.

The width is definatly smaller. It's not senility, it's not shrinking, aged hands, it's a case of Yamaha making the keys smaller than the piano size standard.
The PA80 was bigger.
My acoustic piano is bigger.
The ROland stuff is bigger.
Bigger is better....or, at least more correct !

Hi nardoni2002 "mike". Each Korg PA80 key is just shy of being 1/16 of an inch wider than Yamaha's PSR keyboard keys are. 1/16 inch = almost 2mm. As I stated in my previous post I said 'roughly' 2 millimeters wider than a comparable Yamaha Key. If you want to get technical, then it is actually a little "under" 2mm wider.

As to playing the PSR 2000; yes mike, as you noticed your fingers do 'rub' against the black keys when playing inside the the black/white key area. With the especially bad key feel/action of the PSR 2000 the black keys have a tendency to sometimes depress right along with the white keys that are pressed. This is because IMO 1. The keys are smaller and 2. the key action is very flimsy on the PSR 2000. This in turn can cause clashing of sounds 'clams', ie., dischorded clashing and unwanted notes sounding when the Keyboardist did not intend for them to because, again; - the black keys have a tendency to depress with the white keys that are pressed when playing inside the black/white key area. That is another + (positive) for the Korg PA80, Roland G1000, etc., in that they have less of a tendency to do this because 1. Their Keys are 'wider' and 2. The Key "action/feel" is much better (not as flimsy/spongy, etc.) as the PSR 2000 IMO.

Best regards,
Mike

Quote from Steve Deming: “keyboard is 160mm to the octave”.
sk880user, no maybes about it! When you measure the length of an octave (C to C, you have measured width, not length of the key. In other words, the shorter the distance from C to C the harder it is to cram your fingers into less space. Lets say the width of your hand is four inches and you are trying to get you hand into a hole that is only three and three quarter inches wide. It can be done by scrunching up your hand, but it sure is more comfortable if the hole would be a tad bit wider. In essence that is what Bill was trying to communicate (spiced with a bit of humor) with his thin finger exposé contrasting my thick finger theory. I, for one, would like to thank Dave for putting up with us and his willingness to be part of bringing a little joy and laughter to a sometimes too serious and at times testy group. Dave is a great guy and I think enjoys a splash of the lighter side of life. So sk eight eighty, I believe what it all boils down to is, the people of the whole world are living longer and are quite a bit bigger in stature than they used to be. All six of my kids are bigger than me and all of their kids are bigger than them. Therefore when pride is taken in the fact that as Steve Deming says in this quote: “Yamaha didn't invent this key size, but Yamaha has remained true to this standard for over 30 years (probably a lot longer). It's not shrinking, and it's not changing”. Unquote! It’s not changing? Japan, made a statement at Pearl Harbor that it was not changing but was bent on conforming us to it’s standards. There standards and ways were defeated. I helped in their demise. Would any of the wonderful Japanese people go back to their old systems? I don’t think so. Of course there are always the few who cling to the past and reject progress. Yamaha seems to be wallowing in the latter. Most of the other keyboard makers have wider spaced keys, even technics is thirty three and a quarter inches in a five octave span according to my tape measure. I want to like Yamaha. I have had one of their motorcycles for quite a number of years. Great! I use two of there MS60S monitor speakers with my KN and they do a suburb job for me. I have tried every arranger keyboard they have produced. They do many things. They cost less. They are lighter than most but master of none. I would like to see their arranger boards match the quality of many of their other products. So help me, I would. To be truthful with you guys every time I try one of their arrangers I feel I am playing with somewhat of a toy. The sound is OK, just OK. The styles are OK, rather mundane and not really of the quality that would drive me to greater heights. The keys themselves speaks to me of being for young folks. Kind of like when I bought my first son one of them smaller accordions when he started to take lessons. Got it from Art VanDam when he had his store and studios here in Mt. Prospect, northwest of Chicago. Great for little Doug. Just like mine and Art’s. A little smaller and lighter in all respects, even the sound was a little smaller and lighter in body. I still play it when we go over to his house. Play it because he still has it and that is all there is for me to play. However! It’s OK and fun but for me it is not comfortable to play. The smaller keys make it more difficult for my big fat fingers on the right hand and the smaller and closer buttons on the left hand also make it harder to hit the right ones. Now on the other hand the old man is getting older and weight is becoming a factor. I really do like that feature. I mean, I really do! So what is the end of all this chatter? If I did not have the dough for better, I would buy a Yamaha arranger. If weight was a factor and I was too weak or too lazy I would buy a PSR. If I was prone to compromise and valued the aforementioned I would buy the 2100 or Tyros. If collecting multitudes of, or thousand upon thousands of styles was of importance among all the others, I would buy a PSR. Yamaha would fill my desires and wants in these areas. The fact is, I am not very limited in my finances, I am still very strong, I have good health, I have slightly less than eight hundred styles for my board and only use about ten percent of them to fill all my needs. I love top quality, the best in sound, ease of operation and the like, so I stick with what I got. Even so, I could see myself fondling a PSR except for the key size. Why should I play something that aggravates me when my desire is for pleasure. Harder to play due to key size! Bummer! Even more bummer is their attitude. ‘It’s not shrinking and it’s not changing’! Well, Whoop-de-do!!!!!!! There are others that do and not stay in their dodo!

Snippets for Grandpa Doug’s thought and attitude well. Not always water!!

....anyone got a Q-tip?

(Love ya, Douggie !)

PSR9000 is 32 1/2 inches over same five octaves and you know it is a big heavy dude
Bebop

thanks idatrod for your reply,obviosly this is a bigger problem than i first thought in regards to playing a G, Fsharp and Gsharp ,one or both of these notes playing accidently,it was only this subject that came up, was what made me mention it,i doubt if this will ever be resolved,because if this has been the standard for many years,then it,s not going to change,i have a lot of respect for all of you who have been in the business for years,i am starting to be aware of the problems that a lot of you had many years ago ,that i am finding out about now,it,s funny that when new members who come onto the site ask the same sort of questions i asked over a year ago,i can relate to them,anyway keep up the good work,mike

Well said, Grandpa.

It is the time to name things by its name.
It is the time to tell what someone thinks, not only good but bad, about Yamahas.

Size and feel of keys is not a thing without importance, is all a symbol of minness in saving plastic, the cheaper part of the keyboard!!!.

And a symbol of Yamaha phylosophy. And, besides, a deceit. A deceit to future pianists that begin playing a Yamahas. Why Yamaha don't use similar size as Korg, Roland, Technics keyboards, and standar acustic pianos? Why don't use a better feel key???. What is better in that smaller keys? Nothing... Steve don't give a reason for it.

If Yamaha want to make smaller keys and bad fell keys, it should to be announced with a note in each keyboard: "this keyboard has smaller keys than a piano and keyboards of other manufacturers". That would be sincerity, to hide it is deceit.

Is it a inche more in plastic something so expensive, Yamaha? May Yamaha ruin by it?

Why, Yamaha, Why?.

Only my h opinion


[This message has been edited by Artaher (edited 09-20-2003).]

steve,maybe now is the time to start taking notice of how the yammy keyboardists feel about the width of the keys,after all most of these are pro,s and when it comes to buying a new board they tend to compare the pro,s and cons of all the top boards and make you and us aware of the bad points,and its their views which guide us ,not the manufacturers,i know we are the minority at the moment ,but that could soon change with the internet growing so fast,it,s good to be the market leader ,but even better to STAY there, give the people what they want,the customer is always right,mike

Strangely enough, I never noticed the keys were smaller, but I never was a piano player.
I did, of course, notice that the Roland G800 keys were totally different, but they were too hard for me to play--made my fingers sore.
I played quite a few Technics models and didn't notice the difference. And I have big hands too. Maybe I'll check out some other brands when I get a chance, just to see if they are easier to play. I'm looking for reasons not to buy Yamaha, but so far the pluses have out-weighed the minuses.
DonM

DonM, when you say you are looking for reasons not to buy Yahama you scramble my brains. Most people buy things because they like them, including myself. I do know that my neighbor has a similar problem. Her husband hollers at her all the time because she buys things with her credit card and they are having one heck of a time paying the thing off. She started to look for reasons to not buy, buy and buy. If I was her old man I would tear the darn thing up. She, as far as I know, has no problems with brand names like you and your apparent dislike for Yamaha. She has just the opposite problem. Seems it’s with Fanny Mae, being her biggest purchase, she is trying to find reasons not to buy so much. It’s not only swelling up her credit card debt, but her also. I can understand my neighbor and her Fanny problem but why are you looking for reasons not to buy Yahama. You must of liked it in the first place or you wouldn’t have bought it. What has changed your mind? Could be you are confused, kind of like a love hate relationship. If we can be of any help just let us know but it would help to know why your looking for those kinds of reasons.

Grandpa Doug

Doug,
I just still have a bad taste in my mouth over the PSR2000. It had bugs that they wouldn't acknowledge, even though they tried to come up with "fixes" and the OS was advertised as being software upgradeable, and when it was delivered it wasn't.
However they still have most bang for the buck of all the keyboard I have access to try.
There are no Ketrons, GEMs or Rolands within a couple hundred miles, as far as I can find.
Technics doesn't have a mic processor to suit me.
I didn't like the Vocal Harmony on the Korg PA80, and it had limited fill-ins and breaks.
Plus it didn't know much Country/Western.
I'm afraid to order a Ketron sight-unseen because I'm not certain I'll be comfortable with the location of the fill and variation buttons. The X1 had them on the right-hand side and I'm too old to have to learn to reverse everything. They appear to be better-located but I need to personally try one.
GEM's Od-Odys-Odyssey whatever, is really heavy, plus I haven't been able to arrange to play one. Maybe they'll come out with a portable version, but for now . . .
That just about leaves Yamaha. At least they are dependable and I know them inside-out. The U.S. support people try hard, but they really don't seem to have any clout at all with Japan.
DonM

DonM, thanks for your reply. Yes, I don’t blame you for a bad taste in your mouth. However I think all manufactures at times have their faults. But I see your point here, seems they came out with a downright reprehensible lie about that upgradeable thing. Oh well, I guess we live and learn, but it’s hard. Don’t feel bad. In the whole of the great Chicago metropolitan area there is nowhere to be found some of those keyboard brands that you mention. On the other hand it don’t bother me much because they would most likely be hard to find repairs for anyway. As far as technics not having a mike processor, no contest. They don’t!! Did you read this bit of news on another thread a day or so ago? Quote from Tony W: ”a good friend of mine and an avid technics fan said that he heard that Technics were in discussions with Digitech over the possibility of joining forces for the next board much like korg have with tc helicon on the PA X. Might be an interesting development”!

If that is true, in less than a year this keyboard market could explode considering all of the new technology Technics has introduced with their last offering. Yamaha makes some great stuff. I can’t understand why they are so bullheaded in some areas such as key spacing and crappie feel of the keys. Is it really because they are bullheaded? Might it be they have a long term contract with the people who produce their key assemblies and can’t break the contract? Time will tell I guess. Also I don’t see the necessity for lying to sell more keyboards as with the upgradability thing with software. Maybe they are slipping behind and feel it is necessary! Who knows? My advice is save your bucks for another ten, eleven months when we will see all the new offerings from these guys. My personal feeling is that a few will drop by the wayside while there will be a big separation of the men from the boys. Don, that is the best I can do at the moment. Just remember, getting stuck in a rut is not good. Makes no difference if it be your music or what makes it, or anything else for that matter. Success is for those who pursue it through effort. Disappointment is for those who pursue it through deception. That might just be why you are disappointed in Yamaha and have a bad taste in your mouth. You know what Confucius say: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! Anyway Don, thanks again for your response.

Grandpa Doug

The keyboards are just tools of the trade. I really don't go crazy about any of them, and generally change about once a year, IF there's something out that's an improvement.
The 2100 does everything I need it to do, but I'm always on the lookout for something that will do it better or easier. The Tyros would be better, and I may get one, but not until $$$ situation gets a little better.
Don