I guess I'm missing something here !! Obviously some will like "mushy" keys (PSR) and others will like "box" keys - and some will like Magnus keys (maybe not too many). I wonder how many like boxers vs briefs or auto transmissions vs standard transmissions. It doesn't make either right or wrong, better or worse. I like the PSR keys myself - my hands are just tired of piano keys and PSR's key are easier for me to use - doesn't make the piano keys wrong. My Roland keyboards were pretty mushy if I remember correctly. This reminds me of another thread that was on this BBS recently - Arranger keyboards vs "real musicians" keyboards !!

vc

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Vern

Not quite what I was getting at Vern, but your point is taken. I've never been caught up in arranger vs "pro" stuff. It isn't about that for me. The point for me is having a sturdy instrument that feels sturdy and can withstand the rigors of my playing and transporting. That to me is what a "pro" instrument should be, arranger or otherwise.

I've played or tried many synths and arrangers over the years, and the PSR series just feels more flimsy than any of them. I don't want piano keys either, just something comparable to most of the other synths out there would suit me fine.

DJ, of course it's always best to give a new board a good workout before you try it. The 3000 might just be a winner for you. If your main problem with the 2000 series is the guitar sounds though, I'm not certain what the upgrade would mean to you. Perhaps there will be other features and sounds that make the difference. Only you can decide that.

Realsitic guitar sounds are not so easy to emulate on any board. We're getting closer with the megavoice type technology, but really any keyboard based controller is different from plucking a real string.

Musiclabs, who make the Slicy drummer and Rythym and Chords plug ins for Cakewalk and Cubase, is due to release a new software very soon, that may do a very nice job of guitar emulations. Of course, it may be hard to tell from listening to demos, but it might be worth a listen and a trial download when it comes out.

Among the most realistic electric guitar emulations I've heard up to this point have come from the Korg Oasys soundcard. They were very expensive, and I am not sure whether they are in production any more, but every now and then they seem to surface on ebay or other places.

Hope the 3k is all you want it to be DJ.

AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-21-2004).]

AJ,

My comments weren't really aimed at chastizing anyone, especially you. I agree with the majority of your comment - just that I've seen similar threads before on "good" and "bad" keys. And really, it's what a particular player is comfortable with that is important - whether mushy or stiff. I don't think I'm a "bad" guy because I drive an automatic, wear briefs and play "mushy" keys.

Oh Well, I've probably bashed this subject enough!

vc

vc

What I will add which I have said before is....the PSR 2000 had the cheapest worst key feel on any board I have ever played in any store anywhere, including K Mart. IMO
Terry


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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Ditto Terry. You said pretty much what I think a lot more efficiently than I did, but yesterday was my day to rant I guess..lol

DJ, I totally understand money issues, so I'd suggest giving the 3k a real hard look, along with some other options. If the guitar sounds are your biggest issue with the 2k, and you are happy with it otherwise, there are other possibilities for the studio ( or even live if you already have a laptop ).

Softsynths / Samplers...
By the time the 3k comes out, Musiclabs should have released it's "Real Guitar". IThe demos make me think it uses it's own pro[pietaty "megavoice" technology. There are other options as well. One of the other demo's I tried did a megavoice type thing. If I can remember which one it is or still have the demo, I'll let you know.

I'm no expert on acoustic sounds for the soft stuff, but in passing I did hear some that rivaled or exceeded anything I have on my hardware keys. I bet Frank Rosenthal knows what sounds good in that area though. My main focus was to improve my analog / synth sounds, and I did that substantially with softsynths. I have virtual modular / analog synths that a few years back I could only dream of ( because of the prohibitive costs ). Next task for me is to focus on upgrading my acoustic instrument soundset. I want to do that without changing hardware, although the Motif ES' OS bothers me just enough that I still might change it anyway. If I discover anything good, I'll let you know DJ. Meanwhile, if you are inclined, you could check out http://www.kvr-vst.com

AJ

AJ
(It's apparent to me that you wanted to be sarcastic right from the start,)

Sorry AJ. Yes I did. But I thought you high level dudes could take a poke in the ego once in awhile. While I did mean to be sarcastic I did not mean to wound anyone. Sorry. Have a nice day.

Now I will return to my studio (Oops) garage and try to play on my mushy keys. Sorry

As to the PSR3000. If it is a large of an upgrade to the 2100 I will buy one.
But for my purposes 2100 is a fine choice.
A lot of bang for the buck.
Smokey

I guess I look at this issue quite differently than most. I currently own a pair of 2000s, both of which are programmed identically for usage at a dozen different venues. The 2000 provides me with all the neat things anyone could ever wish for and then some. However, if for one moment I thought the 3000 would provide me with the ability to improve my playing, performing or entertainment skills, I would buy it in a heartbeat--it's that simple.

The second part of the equation is I would have to go about the arduous task of programming the 3000, song by song, style by style and gig by gig (job), saving the information in the keyboard's memory, then saving it again in my desktop computer so it can be transferred to the back-up 3000 that I would also purchase.

The bottom line is that in my case, this would take a couple months of work, lots of practice so I could navigate through the keyboard's OS and eliminate dead time between songs, plus cost me about $3,500 for the two boards and accessories.

I'll probably take a long, hard look at the 3000 when it hits the streets in mid July. Until then, I'll reserve judgement about the board that only a handful of dealers has even seen, none that I know of have touched, and few have ever heard. As for the keys, no one on this or any other board has the slightest idea how they feel or are spaced--no one. If they feel the same as all the other Yamaha boards I've owned, that's fine. It doesn't make a tinker's damned to me personally--I'll play just as bad either way!

Cheers,

Gary

That's not what you said. Your note suggested that "others" should do and think as you did: buid a bridge and get over it. If you wanted to let us know you meant it didn't bother you, your ending line should have been "It doesn't bother me. I built a bridge and got over it."

I'm not the worlds greatest keyboardplayer, but I do understand what Bluezplayer means. Same goes for me when I'm talking about drums. If some drummer comes to me and tells me the action of the standard Tama basspedal is ok, I too will respond that the level I play drums, the action is useless. Too bad if this sounds patronizing to someone less skilled in playing an instrument, but I hate it when someone tells me something is good enough simply because it's good enough for HIM.

And drop the sarcasm please.

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Roland EXR-5 user - http://www.exr5.tk

Bluezplayer, in general, is correct concerning his assessment of soft/virtual accoustic sounds vs mega voices. Today you can purchase guitar sounds that will exceed the quality and flexibility of the mega voices. The way this is done is as follows:

Ecellent Guitar samples with release samples
Velocity switching
Key switching
Effects, e.g., Amplitude
And so on.....

For example, with key switching you can instantly bring in a new sample. If you wanted to change from pick guitar to finger guitar you would just press a key in the lower left end of your keyboard. Similarly, if you wanted to produce a slide sound you would again just press a lower key assigned to do this. This makes the whole thing very playable - in a studio or as a keyboard player in a band. In addition, many different sounds can be created with velocity switching as well.

If this is not enough you can buy samples which include live guitar picking/chording to insert into your sequences.

So as can be seen you can do everything you wish with soft virtual acoustic instruments. Plus they will sound very good - one guitar may have say 400mb of samples.

All of this is not to say that the keyboard companies do not do a good job with small samples. They do. It just does not measure up to the Big Guys.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 02-21-2004).]

Good thing this is America and we can "agree to disagree"...................