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#218224 - 02/20/04 02:48 PM Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
beachbum Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 652
Loc: Austin
Hi Folks,
I have a PSr2000 and the 2100 was not a very big upgrade so I didn’t do it. However, for those of us who are budget minded. And will have to work some OT for it. Will it be worth selling my 2000 for about $600 - $700 and shelling out another $700 for this upgrade? For now, I’m fine with what I have except for some of the guitar sounds… Any opinions?
Thanks,
DJ
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#218225 - 02/20/04 03:02 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
I think you'll find the PSR 3000 a significant upgrade from the PSR 2000 DJ. And if you can get $600-700 for the PSR 2000 your ahead of the game IMO. You'll get more Polyphony more .Wav ROM although how much more .wav rom is still speculation. You'll get the Mega voices more onboard Styles plus a significant amount more of the Sweet! Live! and Cool! voices too. Although from what I've heard (through the Grapevine) the PSR 1500/3000 will have the same mushy Key action as the PSR 2000/2100 do. My 2 cents.

Best regards,
Mike
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#218226 - 02/20/04 03:58 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
rattley Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 832
Loc: Punta Gorda Florida USA
Hello...........I've said it once, I'll say it again..............
"I like the mushy keyboard action!" You just have to learn how to get used to it.........as with any instrument.

Has there ever been a PSR series (not Tyros) that had a better action in this price range?

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#218227 - 02/20/04 04:27 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
I can't stand the PSR key action, and I'll never adjust to it. I've played many many ep's, synths, and organs over a 35 + year span of playing, and nothing has ever felt so spongy and dead as the PSR keys. Perhaps the two octave, twelve chord Magnus chord organ that I started playing on when I was about 5 was that bad, but I can't really remember that far back.

When keys are so unresponsive that they can potentially cause me to miscue notes on very fast runs, I stay away. It's really unfortunate too because other than that, I liked so much else about the PSR2000 that I had before, so I know the 3000 would be a good fit if it has a better keypad.

AJ
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#218228 - 02/20/04 05:07 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
beachbum Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 652
Loc: Austin
There’s the difference! I finally figured out why the key feel appeals to some and others hate it. I played the piano a bit in college. They had music rooms with a piano and I’d fiddled with it a bit. I got my first Yamaha board and it was cheap and had cheesy keys. Then I got a psr5000. Had great sounds and cheesy keys. Got a psr530 it had cheesy keys. Next a 540 then a 550. All had cheesy keys. Now that I’m on the 2000. I’m use to cheesy keys and I love the cheesy keys. I’m glad that the 3000 will have cheesy keys. That'’ what I’ve grown use to thanks to Yamaha.
DJ
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#218229 - 02/20/04 05:52 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
Smokey Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
I play a Roland Vk7, Yamaha SY85, PCR30, and a PSR2100. All have a different action/key size I play all just as badly. I did not know there was a problem, until I read others
complaining about it. Well it still does not bother me. Build a bridge and get over it.
Smokey

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#218230 - 02/20/04 07:14 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
I don't know how exactly to say it without coming off the wrong way, so I'm not going to worry about it, and I'm just going to say it anyway.

I play at a pretty high level on keys. It's not like I'm going to try to play Etudes, or Emerson or Wakeman style synth leads and organ, or Monty Alexander / Chick Corea jazz piano on a PSR all that often.. but on the right board I think I can play pretty close to that level, as well as playing in my own style, which incorporates different techniques I've tried to borrow from some of those players while doing my own thing.

On a PSR I just do not feel as confident playing that kind of stuff, plain and simple. Ok, granted, high level piano emulations are difficult on any non weighted key synth, particularly the 61 and even 76 key varieties, but I can do better piano and a lot better with the organs, synths, and other stuff on my PA80 or my Motif, or virtually any other synth I've ever played.

Key feel DOES matter to me, and better key feel helps make me more comfortable and better able to emulate whatever I want to be able to play in a live setting. Ok, if I'm just adding chords and playing some basic melodies and / or bass lines, or doing simple comping, then I agree, it doesn't matter so much, but occasionally I wanna break out and strut my stuff. I do a liitle in every show. I don;t overdo it, but I worked and practiced hard for a lot of years to earn the ability to do that. So I want a tool that is up to the task, and the PSR anything just ain't it.

Live is where it counts, because in the studio I have the luxury of using a different controller for that stuff and really, I don't use an arranger in the studio all that much anyway.

If the key feel is alright for you, I understand and I am truly glad for you, but please don't tell me to bulid "bridges" and "get over it". I think I know my own skills and have been doing this long enough to know what feels right to me and what doesn't. That doesn't mean it isn't right for the next player, but I'm sure I'm not the only player around who thinks this of the PSr style boards.

I'd consider the 3000 a strong candidate for me IF Yamaha would change the key feel, but it appears that they won't so I'll get off my soapbox now and move on and try to answer DJ's question at the same time.

DJ, if you are happy with the 2000 series, it may very well be worth the upgrade. I don't judge anything solely on specs, but the 3k seems to be a much bigger upgrade vs the 2000 series than the 2100 was vs the 2k. Maybe a good comparison will be, like the upgrade from the 740 to the 2000.

I was never thrilled with the 2000's guitar voices either, but I was able to create some decent patches by combining two different patches and editing some of the basic synth parameters that Yamaha gives you to work with. I actually got one electric and a couple of acoustics that I liked very much, and they reminded me of a couple of the Motif presets. Perhaps the 3000 will have improved sounds. I thought that the 2k's organs needed updating too. Overall though, it was a nice sounding board with lots of bang for the buck.

One major upgrade will be the megavoice technology. To me, the 3000 may be more like a Tyros junior with speakers, but if it has the same old PSR key feel, that kills the deal for me.

AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-20-2004).]
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#218231 - 02/20/04 08:07 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
Smokey Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
How verbose. I stand meekly in the shadow of such talent, both in words and music. All I said was at my level it does not bother me.
I built my bridge and got over it.
Just the way I see it, Smokey

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#218232 - 02/20/04 09:34 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
And that's fine for you. It's apparent to me that you wanted to be sarcastic right from the start, so if it makes you happy, be my guest. It's irrelevant to me. I play pretty well, and I'm not particularly modest about it. Too bad. Talent had little to do with it. Dedication and hard work does, and I still practice often, because I still can learn so much.

What is relevant and important for me is that the folks from Yamaha who sometimes read these forums, see this, and perhaps take into consideration that there are pro's who use their arrangers and would like a sturdier build on their mid to higher end models. . BTW, I'm hardly a pro vs the other guys here who play out for a living. I would be more like the starving jazz player, who can play like heck, but doesn't work very often in the business. I am like them though in that I want the best tools I can get for those occasions when I do work. It's not just the key feel. The 2000 just felt flimsy everywhere. I broke the pitch wheel on an earlier PSR just by using it. My PA80 feels like a tank by comparison. So did my MZ2000.

Maybe the prevailing Yamaha attitude that these boards are mainly for home players will change some day, or maybe it won't, but if those who consider it an issue don't say something, then maybe they'll never know.. Maybe their right though. To me the 2000 feels like.... a home keyboard. It's a tease, because it does so many other things so well.

I probably shouldn't hold out much hope, as the answer from a Yamaha rep here on the forum regarding the key size issue that was raised by a few other forum members was something to the effect: "Yes Yamaha's keys may be smaller, but Yamaha has been making keys this way for ?? years ( maybe 95 ? ). We're not going to change that".

Maybe Yamaha doesn't really care if I buy someone else's board. Cool. I can live with that. Their attitude toward their customers has become much more apparent to me since I began reading the forum on for their flagship workstation at the Motifator site.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-20-2004).]
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#218233 - 02/20/04 10:18 PM Re: Is the PSR3000 going to be worth it
beachbum Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 652
Loc: Austin
The point I was making as the thread progressed was how through years of playing on cheesy keyboards factored into how I view keyboards now... I fully appreciate anyone who is used to heavy action on the board. However, after years of plastic pushing I'd like it no other way...
Thanks for the response Aj, as I will start doing some OT for the upgrade..
DJ
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