I spent about an hour and a half at the Guitar Center in Highland Park, IL. That is the place to look at keyboards! They have about 50 keyboards ranging up to $4,500 in three different rooms. That's just what they have on display. The salesman was very courteous and turned down the sound from some other system so I could hear my doodlings.

I went back and forth between the Yamaha DGX505 and the Privia PX-555R. All the sounds on the 505 were better except for the pianos. The pianos were very acceptable on both machines. The only sound I liked slightly better on the 555R was the harpsichord.

The difference in sounds in emough to sway me back to the Yammie despite its mediocre spring action. I want to be clear on the difference. Every instrument I tried on the Yammie was better than I thought was even possible for an under $2K machine. Flute, sax, trumpet, even choir (almost) all would be immediately recognizable to a child. I can imagine a little girl saying "Mommy, that man has a saxophone player inside that box!"

Not so, on the Privia. The Privia gives you a wide pallette of sounds to choose from, and for layering, or even creating mini-orchestral effects, I suspect it is sufficient. But the tones seem flat, and if you play a flute solo, the little girl wouldn't know it was a flute. If she had to guess, she'd probably guess a flute over violin or drums. ;-) But you don't get the entertaining "Ooh-ahh that's a flute!" sensation. And entertainment is what we're all about, isn't it?

On all the Yammie breath instruments, there's an attack, vibrato, decay, and a slight increase in tone through the sustain part of the envelope, that tricks your subconscious into TAKING CREDIT for artfully shaping the phrases. ;-)

The strings on both were pretty ho-hum. I've never heard convincing strings on a keyboard. But even here, the Yammie was a little better.

The one thing I didn't try is adding some combinations of vibrato tremelo/reverb/whatever to the Privia instruments. The saleman couldn't find the manual. I also wanted to try piano layered with strings and a rhythm set, to see if I would be dropping notes all the time with that simple "live stage" combo. There was a layer button -- but neither one of us could figure out how to make it work.

I'll download the manual, study up, then return and try to rekindle my Privia passion.

I also preferred the method for changing sounds on the fly on the Yamaha. On the Privia, you have to push a sound button, then dial the wheel to get the exact sound number you want. On the Yamaha, you have the wheel option, but you also have a keypad, and you can just punch in the three digits. After a few weeks practice, I imagine you'd have all your favorite instruments memorized, and you could punch them in with your right hand without taking your eyes off the music. But again, I should study the Privia manual. Maybe I'm missing something. It's only maybe one or two seconds tougher on the Privia, but the music won't wait that long!

The speakers on both machines seemed to pump enough sound for my kind of music in a corner bar setting. I'm going for some quiet old-fashioned jazz. No need to "take over the room." In fact, it's nice when people can seek a quiet corner to converse.

The Yammie also sounded a lot better at GC than it did at another store. The grand piano didn't sound like it was locked in a closet any more. Acoustics -- go figure.

Even if they were the same price, I'd have to go with the Yammie. Bigger display (nice blue tint, and you get the whiz-bang staff scrolling thingie, though I'm sure it's not practical), more sounds, better sounds.

I was thinking if someone must have the hammer action, they might stick with a PX-310, since the additional sounds on the 400R/555R are so forgettable.

Here's my take on the action issue: MOST of the problems with action can be overcome with a few weeks practice on your personal KB. Repeated notes, nice chord balance, control in fast passages ... just a matter of adapting -- and the adaptation between a spring loaded Casio and a Steinway grand is LESS than the adaptation between an off brand spinet and the same Steinway.

The "graded" part of graded hammer action makes absolutely no difference to me. Clavinolas a few years ago had haamer action that was even through all the keys, and they were just superb. It should take about 10 seconds for a good pianist to notice and adjust to the "grading."

But there is one issue that remains, and that is the issue of leaps of over a tenth or so. When a pianist who was brought up on acoustics makes a big jump, he uses his arm muscles, of course, but when the fingers get there, they feel first -- then they play. It's maybe a tenth of a second, but in that tenth of a second, the fingers know from the black keys if they are off one note, and instantaneously adjust to hit the right note(s). Furthermore, if the fingers sense they are completely lost, they usually "adjust" by NOT PLAYING (better than a wrong note!). Hopefully, that doesn't happen too often.

Now on a spring loaded digital, like the DGX505, just feeling the note is enough to make it play. In fact, just the lateral motion of your arm is enough to make it play. If you try to feel, you sometimes wind up playing the note or chord twice. So, you quickly get in the habit of forming your fingers for playing instead of feeling and then you PRAY a lot.

But jumping that way means the lateral motion of your arm gets translated into downward force on the note(s). So every time I play on a spring loaded digital, you will hear sudden random BLATS. I practiced for weeks once on some kind of Yammie (I think it was a DGX300, not sure) and I COULD NOT get out of the habit of blaring out on jumps. I think it would literally take a year or more of practice to smooth out my jumps, and then I would be less equipped to play on an acoustic.

Now, to my poor addled brain, it seems like the solution is obvious. Just add enough torque to the springs so the keys don't move at all with light pressure! No, it wouldn't be exactly the same as weighted hammer action. No, an acoustic pianist wouldn't be immediately impressed. He might have to practice a few weeks to get comfortable. But it would be WORKABLE. And a musician brought up on digitals from childhood would have just as much speed and control as the best acoustic pianist.

Instead, they make the action on spring-loaded digitals the same as they made the action on electronic organs for 80 years. I've played on an Allen organ -- I can get around on it fine! But organs aren't velocity sensitive, and each manual is shorter than a piano. Fewer death defying leaps, and no rude BLAAAT when you get there.

Of course, as long as the spring-loaded's are unplayable, there's a market for pri$ey weighted hammer action. That couldn't be the object of not beefing up the torque 60% to 110% could it? Nooooooo ...

Anyhow, I guess I'm still lookin. Give me a DGX505 and add 80% to the spring tension -- I'd buy it in a heart beat. But I'm not up to prying it open, installing my own springs, and voiding the warranty.

Best,
R.

thanks for the review

There is a new Yamaha piano coming out with the weighted hammer action and DGX505 features...

I'll get you the model number ...

Rick,
Just read your impression..
I would suggest to try out (If you can find one in your area)a GEM Promega.(I think there's 61,76 en 88 keys)I tried the 76 keys myselve and the only reason I didn't buy the board was that I needed a good hammond clone too, while the piano was less important in my situation.
It is more expensive as what you want to spend, but it cannot harm to try first and then make a decision.
Fred

Yamaha is updating the full DGX range from X05 to X20, there will be DGX 220, 520 and 620. With the 620 having a full weighted hammer action keybed. to be released any time soon now.

Sounds have improved even furthere and the 620 is beleived to have a very good touch.
http://www.pcnews.ru/articles/yamaha-usa...s-has-8501.html

Thanks! I think they've changed the model number to YPG625. There are some stores taking pre-orders for $779. The only thing it lacks is the SmartMedia card slot. I'm hoping it will have enough onboard memory so I won't miss it.

Rick

I stopped at the Guitar Center in Albaquerque NM this weekend. The BEST arranger that they had was a Casio WK3700.

Tom

I have not seen a high end arranger at any Guitar Center since DanO left the Maryland GC..

Tom, same around here..Casio Privia and WK series...that's it...oh, Yamaha 505's if you want to count them..

Fran .....I remember that trip to Dan's store in MD.......he had the SD-1/X1 on display if I rememnber.....Arrangers are a rare find in these kind of stores....seems they are trying to only have them in
Home Organ stores to get the big bucks........otherwise its buying online....with a try & 30-45 day return attitude.

Nawwww... ya gotta drive to Highland Park.

Seriously, Tom, I'm not even 100% clear on what an "arranger" is versus a synth/soft synth/controller. I'm 95% looking for a performance synth, and it makes sense that these are what they'd have on display. They can sell themselves "hands on."

Took another one hour drive to GC and deepened my impression. I love all the sounds on the DGX505. About the best you could do, AFAICS for a performance synth. You don't have all the control of course of, say, a P250.

They actually have 58 keyboards on display. I counted. That's not including the little 25 key Oxygen whatever, and a Casio WKsomething in boxes on the floor. I must have 88 keys, and every other 88 key kbd was either much too heavy, or much too expensive for my needs.

Figured out the reason I like the wind instruments so much better on the Yammie, compared to the Privia. The Privia 555R just has an attack and a decay. Two elements out of 4 in the ADSR envelope -- which is all you need, really, on a piano! But man, you miss the flattening of tone after an attack, followed by a warm vibrato sustain kicking in maybe half a second later.

I also noticed something about the 32 note polyphony. Think I'll start a new thread on that.

And I studied the Privia manual. I still like the controls better on the DGX505. So I guess I'm looking forward to the YPG625 coming out in June -- a DGX505 with weighted keys.

They're also coming out with a CP300 -- upgrade to the P250 -- in June. Very, very slick but a little "heavy" for me in price and poundage.

So I have until June to seek out and destroy an ES4 and some GEMs. ;-)

Ciao,
Rick