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#203956 - 11/05/07 07:13 PM Da Man Yea.........Hammond
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#203957 - 11/05/07 09:59 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
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New Digital Hammond B3......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRyQFGlWU70
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#203958 - 11/06/07 05:41 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
ianmcnll Offline
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Sounds remarkably similar to the Nord C1...all that's missing are the digital drawbars.

I miss everything about my old 1957 B3 except the weight.

I think this new B-3 weighs about 290 lbs...quite a weight loss from the over 400 lbs of the old one...but still pretty heavy.

Pretty cool nevertheless.

Ian
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#203959 - 11/06/07 05:59 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
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ian without me going to the devil.....
lets be real here...its a nice suedo facimile of sorts maybe in sound only to a point but....

It AIN't No Hammond No Way, No How period.
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#203960 - 11/06/07 06:07 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
ianmcnll Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
ian without me going to the devil.....
lets be real here...its a nice suedo facimile of sorts maybe in sound only to a point but....

It AIN't No Hammond No Way, No How period.


Donny, there's no way you're "going to the devil"...you're too much of a gentleman.

I agree...it isn't a Hammond.

Ian
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#203961 - 11/06/07 06:12 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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Wow this devil thing is working ....
we're Agreeing
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#203962 - 11/06/07 07:51 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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I think the difference is partly the use of non-tube Leslies in the demos of the new the digital B. Just sounds too clean.

Met Tony and heard him at the Summer NAMM in Indianapolis. Good guy, great player, but he "ain't no Jimmy Smith".

Russ

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#203963 - 11/06/07 07:55 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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Russ.....
Tony evolves thru the legend himself....but there's no denying his excitement & exuberance when he plays...
there are many many great B3 Jazz players to enjoy...I just like Tony Monocos way of doing it. Although the D-B3 does allow a better flexibility in todays modern age of computer technology....I have to agree the original B3 is Da Goods!

Stay well
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#203964 - 11/06/07 07:59 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Donny, I enjoy Tony, too. He's a good proponent of the art form.


R.

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#203965 - 11/06/07 02:24 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
cassp Offline
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#203966 - 11/06/07 03:00 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Diki Offline
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Whack most of these B3 clones through a REAL 147, and it's pretty hard to tell the difference, IMO.

There is more difference between two B3's of differing vintages and level of upkeep than between a Nord and an XK3, from what I've heard, as long as you bathe them in a tub of Leslie 147!

To sit down and PLAY, well, even Hammond haven't managed to emulate the FEEL of a nicely worn-in original B3's keyboard (I have recently played all the new Hammond clones except the XK1, including the new 'Portable-B' and New B3), so, as far as I am concerned, they ALL are one step removed from totally fooling ME, but step back twenty feet and just LISTEN, as long as you use a 147 or 145, they are ALL good enough for me!

Now if I could only PLAY like Jimmy! (or Tony, or Joey, or....!)

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#203967 - 11/06/07 03:13 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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You're right, Diki. I have a 145 and a 147 RV.

Tubes make the difference, and real doppler is far better than simulation.

R.

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#203968 - 11/06/07 04:38 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
cgiles Offline
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Russ, Diki, you're both correct.....BUT, where weight is an issue, ie. when it requires frequent transport, even if you go the Nord route, what's the point if you have to lug around a 100 lb.??? Leslie. For that reason, the criterion for me is; how close is it WITHOUT a Leslie? So far, the C1 "meets my needs" in that regard, although I would definitely have a Leslie permanently in my home or on a semi-permanent job site (but only if I were using the organ as my primary instrument).

But of course, sound isn't everything. I'm guessing that guys like Tony Monaco, Joey D., et al, would still sound pretty darn good on a C1 or any other TOTL clonewheel. The lack of physical drawbars on the C1 is a little awkward, but I'm the type of throwback who only uses 4 or 5 registrations anyway, and that can be easily handled by 1 program button (120 programs), and two "live" buttons. All three buttons gives you three different presets (on individual buttons) so that at any given time, you have 9 registrations instantly available. I never fiddle with "drawbars" in realtime. I'm just saying, it works for me.

chas
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#203969 - 11/06/07 04:44 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Chas, I have a cool little Motion Sound top box. It's just the top horn. Don't know if they still make it, but it's pretty cool, light and sounds good. Runs on one tube plus transistors for that wonderfully nasty sound.

You're right. I wouldn't play any one nighters with a Nord or anything else AND drag around a tube Leslie.


R.

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#203970 - 11/06/07 04:46 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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#203971 - 11/06/07 06:10 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Diki Offline
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Yeah, I got one of those, too...

Worst thing about the G70 (OK, second worse after no Chord Sequencer!)? No individual out for the VK-Hammond clone section...

Play THAT into a Motion-Sound, and I might forget about the Nord altogether...

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#203972 - 11/06/07 06:29 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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#203973 - 11/06/07 06:38 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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Whats the difference between the models?
B3/C3/A100
http://b3world.com/video/difference.ram
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#203974 - 11/07/07 06:39 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I've had my Motion sound for about 11 years. It looks similar to the current Pro-3, but has a visible tube in the front, under a clear panel.

Anxious to try it with the Nord.


R.

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#203975 - 11/07/07 02:07 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Over in "The Bar" I posted about a friend, Winston Walls. He's the guy who bills himself as "The Greatest B-3 Player You Never Heard Of".

He's a monster who scares the hell out of most of the better known players. Check him out. He's unbelievable! I had the unsettling pleasure of playing guitar with him many times in the 70's here in Lexington. He makes some nationally known players sound like beginners.

Russ

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#203976 - 11/07/07 02:13 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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#203977 - 11/07/07 02:47 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
From 74 to 76 Winston and I played B-3's at two competing after hours restaurants. 1 to 4:00 AM. It was my most enjoyable time in the business. We got all the niteclub folks, musicians in for breakfast...all the night people.

I left the Sportsman in 1977 and, after my hotel gig, became a Walls customer at Comers, his after hours home, many nights a week.

Played with him at Up Jump The Devil and O'Keefs, two now defunct jazz clubs.

What a monster!

Russ

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#203978 - 11/07/07 02:51 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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Kool memories Russ.....
sounds like a special time in your life.
Thanks for sharing.
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#203979 - 11/07/07 02:55 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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#203980 - 11/07/07 03:10 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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yet another B3 Mod....


http://tinyurl.com/2aa23u
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#203981 - 11/07/07 07:35 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
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Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2109
Loc: Muskegon, MI
I think you folks are all confused. The Hammond is easy to emulate. It's the Leslie that gives it that sound. You can phase shift and doppler all you want but it won't make up for throwing the sound around the room and bouncing it off everything.

Tom
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#203982 - 11/08/07 07:58 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Posts: 6234
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I agree, Tom. I keep a 147 RV going with a B-3 at a regular country club job. It stays there, thankfully. Same B and leslie I played after hours in the 70's.

Just hooked a 145 up to an old 1949 M I restored at about 500% more than it's worth.

gotta love the doppler..

R.

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#203983 - 11/08/07 08:06 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Dnj Online   content
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147 was my choice in the 70's also....
great sound (sigh)
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#203984 - 11/08/07 08:15 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I liked the sound so well that I did hundreds of one nighters in the 70's and 80's with a Gibson 355, 145 RV (needed the RV for better sounding guitar), with a separate adapter/foot controlled speed controller. With heavy strings, you could play a really acceptable bass line/chord combination. Used a funky little drum machine and a 585 hi impedance mike into an old Standell head with "no name" cabinets. Always liked the Lonnie Mack Leslie sound, followed by Three Dog Night and Stevie Ray, who often used a Leslie. Great for guitar.

Occasionally, I'll still use the guitar/Leslie combo for a studio job.

Again, ya gotta love the doppler...


R.

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#203985 - 11/09/07 08:40 AM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Registered: 01/02/04
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Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Tom, I may be wrong all these years, but I thought that throwing the sound around IS the doppler effect?

R.

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#203986 - 11/09/07 02:20 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
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Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2109
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Russ,

You are partially correct. Think of the Doppler effect as you would a train going by as it blows it's whistle. As the train approaches, and goes past you, and further away, the frequency of the sound changes. A Leslie does do Doppler but unlike the train it throws the sound all over the room as a bonus. The Doppler is only the frequency shift as the sound approaches and departs.

Also as the Leslie horn faces you and goes away there is also a change in amplitude "loud and soft".

To sum it up a Leslie gives us three different effects:

Amplitude modulation ie. loud and softs
Frequency modulation ie. Doppler effect
and sound dispersion ie. throwing the sound all over the room

Tom

PS. Russ, if you had your masters degree from a good northern college (Michigan or Michigan State)instead of some second rate hillbilly college you would have known these things. (;
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#203987 - 11/09/07 03:41 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
lahawk Offline
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Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
Hammond's 70th Birthday:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ck__wghRww&NR=1



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#203988 - 11/09/07 03:59 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
pianodano Offline
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Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Cavanaugh:
I think you folks are all confused. The Hammond is easy to emulate. It's the Leslie that gives it that sound. You can phase shift and doppler all you want but it won't make up for throwing the sound around the room and bouncing it off everything.

Tom


Beg to differ. Not quite that easy. The sound of 9 switches under each key sequentially completing a circuit on each busbar is what gives it the highly emulated, but not easily imitated, Hammond sound. Unless of course, you build a key switch with 9 contacts sequentially completing the 9 circuits.

To be sure, a really good Hammond player will exibit a fair amount of control over those contacts and their closure speed.

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#203989 - 11/09/07 04:06 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
pianodano Offline
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Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia
Where's the edit button ? I need to correct the spelling of "exhibit" in my post above.

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#203990 - 11/09/07 08:00 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
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Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2109
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Russ,

I screwed up the wink, northern education I guess. I'll have to try again.
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#203991 - 11/09/07 08:07 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
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Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2109
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Pianodano,

The key contacts are not keyed in sequence but simultaniously. All nine fingers go down and contact their respective busbars at the same time. This is nothing new. I repaired organs for ten years and many companies did the same thing. Conn was a big one to do this also. I beg to differ that a good player can control this in real time while playing. Whoever told you this had no idea of what they spoke or they were pulling your leg.

Tom
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Tom

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#203992 - 11/10/07 12:34 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
captain Russ Offline
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Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 6234
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Tom, I got the message withoiut the wink, and ENJOYED IT!

The UK Flash

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#203993 - 11/10/07 12:46 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Diki Offline
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Sure, Tom, but it the sound of a not perfectly regulated set of contacts that gave old electro mechanical organs their character, the sense that each one was individual (along with many other factors, of course), and contributed towards the famous 'key click' sound which has STILL to be successfully imitated by the clones, IMO.

But it is strange... Put any (OK, most!) of the clones into a 147, it will fool me if someone ELSE is playing, but sit at the bench and run your fingers across the keys, and NONE of them seem to have got the waterfall keys spot on, something you'd think fairly easy to accomplish. Some of them don't even come close to a B3's touch. Most keyboard manufacturers spend a FORTUNE trying to duplicate the exact touch of a grand piano. Why so little attention to the touch and feel of a B3..?

I think it is one of the main reasons so many cling to old, long in the tooth originals, when the clones through a Leslie sound SO close...

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#203994 - 11/10/07 05:55 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
pianodano Offline
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Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Cavanaugh:
Pianodano,

The key contacts are not keyed in sequence but simultaniously. All nine fingers go down and contact their respective busbars at the same time. This is nothing new. I repaired organs for ten years and many companies did the same thing. Conn was a big one to do this also. I beg to differ that a good player can control this in real time while playing. Whoever told you this had no idea of what they spoke or they were pulling your leg.

Tom


Well excusssssssssssssse me. You must know what you're talking about since you worked on em and everything.

I'm gonna go play my January 1956 C-3 for a while. Btw, What's your opinion on caps ? You like the early wax or later orange better ?

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#203995 - 11/10/07 06:25 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
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Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2109
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Orange!

The first organ I ever played and the first song I ever played was "Silent Night" on my uncle's B3. That was 1961. I was able to get very expressive on that song by pressing each key a thousandth of an inch at a time to take advantage of those out of adjustment key contacts. Of course the song took 45 minutes to play.

Tom

Tom
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Tom

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#203996 - 11/10/07 08:12 PM Re: Da Man Yea.........Hammond
pianodano Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Cavanaugh:
Orange!

The first organ I ever played and the first song I ever played was "Silent Night" on my uncle's B3. That was 1961. I was able to get very expressive on that song by pressing each key a thousandth of an inch at a time to take advantage of those out of adjustment key contacts. Of course the song took 45 minutes to play.

Tom

Tom


LOL.



Orange. Figures. I guess that's why they made em in different flavors though, so everyone could get what they want. Personally, I prefer the tone of wax caps. Got rid of my 63 for that very reason and restored the 56.

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