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#203475 - 02/23/04 01:30 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Great job Scott. Really enjoyed both listening and watching you perform, especially under what most folks would consider extremely difficult circumstances--you came through like a real pro. As for Jim's comments about the sound, much of this is easily explained by the lousy microphone systems in video cameras--they're among the worst I've ever used. That's why there's a line-in jack on most of the cameras, or at least those I've used in the past. It makes a huge difference in the sound quality over the camera's shotgun mic.

Thanks again for sharing this with everyone on the forum,

Gary
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#203476 - 02/23/04 01:50 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
The Pro Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 1087
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
Actually Scott, I think recording into a video camera and using only the available mic on the camera is a very useful self-examining tool. It's not very discriminating and tends to record everything pretty much equally badly (!). Having said that, I think they can be very truthful as well.

Donny: I appreciate Scott's arranger-only ethic but I don't share in it, nor do I take offense at it. I find that many arranger styles tend to sound repetitive and mechanical after a short period of time. I also find that it restricts my playing style too much to be triggering chordal progressions constantly. I use the arranger portion of my keyboard to allow song options (esp. performing a song I know but isn't programmed in advance) and to jam in freestyle now and then, but I rely on SMF's mostly for my live music. I don't think that devalues my performance, nor has anyone who ever saw me play said that it did. It's just a different choice.
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Jim Eshleman

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#203477 - 02/23/04 02:29 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
I am surprised to hear you sneer at others using these formats (pre-sequenced backing tracks). .


Sorry Donny, it was honestly NOT my intention to put down people who enjoy playing along to pre-recorded backing tracks, and offer my apology to you (and anyone else) who might have taken offense.

I myself used to perform with karaoke style backing tracks, but only 'after' purchasing an arranger keyboard, did I discovered how much more 'musically satisfying' (to me), playing in auto accompaniment mode was.

I realize that many top artists of the day are utilizing backing tracks on stage (and with great success). I totally respect that, but for me, I want to be both band conductor and performer, and have the flexibility of taking a song 'where I want' and 'when I want', on the fly, while performing onstage. I never play a song exactly the same way twice. The ability to modulate keys at will, play different substitution chords, take an extra chorus, etc is simply not possible with a pre-sequenced backing track. I suppose, since this is an 'arranger kb specific' forum, I felt it was ok to express my opinion in support of 'arranger mode' playing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:

Honestly to me using the arranger "ALL THE TIME" sounds a bit boring and style repeatative to me versus and mixing it up with some custom 10-16 track SMF backing tracks....


I believe what keeps the music from sounding 'boring and repetitive' is OUR 'live' playing' (as well as singing) & how we 'interact' with the backup band (accompaniment). IMHO, arranger auto accompaniment backup supports this better than a commercial pre-sequenced backing track can.

Donny, I agree with you that it's the overall sound and performance that counts, no matter which performance method you choose. I welcome hearing from others with their thoughts on this topic as well.

Scott
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#203478 - 02/23/04 02:43 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Jim.. [pro] very interesting thoughts....

Scott...I sought of knew what you meant, but I thought this would be a good topic to talk about here on the SZ to both clarify and disect as we always do here which makes this place so fantastic.
Every gig requires a different approach to make it a success...somtimes playing straight alone KB/LH bass, KB Accomp styles, SMF files/KB...etc etc ...this is why these features are on our arranger KB's for us to utilize. Many people take a commercial SMF and add tracks etc ...to make it their own, while others do it from scratch and play along too which is fine. What the audience hears and enjoys is the bottom line in todays high tech world of making music. Scott anything goes, and your points are valid too. We all do it different and hopefully the Sum is Great Music!!

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#203479 - 02/23/04 03:25 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
The Accordionist Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 221
Scott -

I really liked your video. You look like you're having a lot of fun which is to me the key to it all.

Thanks a lot for taking all the trouble to get that in a format we could all easily view.

Have you noticed a marked increase in potential customers from the exposure you received at CNY? I hope so.

Thanks again and the playing and singing were excellent.

Tommy

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#203480 - 02/23/04 03:49 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
Scottyee,

Very, very, smooooooooth..... It's great to video yourself once in a while to see what you look and sound like to an audience.

That's why I broke my video camera!

Great Stuff

Regards,
Al
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Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#203481 - 02/24/04 12:56 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
I'm putting on my flame retardant underware and bullet proof vest for my opinion. Singing along to a prerecorded midi file is little or no different then Karaoke to me.

I agree with Scott's representation myself and that playing it allows the opportunity to improvise and go places that backing tracks do not, they will play the exact same way the thousandth time as they did the first time.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-24-2004).]
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jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#203482 - 02/24/04 04:57 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
This is starting to sounds like the old Myth..

Speakers=Non Pro KB vs No Speakers=Pro KB


------------------
www.donnypesce.com

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#203483 - 02/24/04 08:38 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I wasn't going to get into this peeing contest, but the more I read, the more interesting the topic became. So here goes!

Hmmmmmm! Lets see now. If you sing to a pre-recorded midi file, a well recorded song that begins and ends exactly like the original song, does it violate the rules of being an entertainer?

How about if you sing while standing in front of a 17-piece orchestra, one like the Glenn Miller Orchestra, players that go strictly by the sheet music in front of them. And they too play that song just like the orriginal recording. Does that make the performer a non-performer? Whoops!

Oh, how about if you sing and play single finger chords with your left hand and put 500 people on the dance floor. Is there something wrong with this type of performance? Did the performer violate some sort of unwritten rule of entertainment?

Maybe it would be more professional if you only played full fingered chords and sang, putting 500 people on the dance floor. Would this be a more professional performance? Could the audience really tell if you were playing full fingered chords? Would they be less entertained if you played in the single or multiple fingered modes?

Lets face if folks--this is show biz. It doesn't make a tinker's damned to your audience how you acheive the goal of entertaining them--they just want to be entertained. They could care less, and likely will never know, if you're playing along with SMF's, MP3s, full fingered chords or single finger chords, just as long as they're being entertained. If you're not doing just that, providing them with quality entertainment, they're not gonna' hire you again--it's that simple. At that point, you're out of the entertainment business.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a great musician. However, I have absolutely no qualms about stepping up in front of 1,200 people that I've never seen before and being quite confident that for the next several hours they're going to have lots of fun--and for that matter, so will I. As an entertainer, I'll use every tool in the toolbox to keep the dancefloor filled to capacity and at the end of the night, give away a couple hundred cards to folks that ask for them. When they stop dancing, singing along with me or tapping out the rythm with their fingers and feet, I'll quietly bow out of this business and find another way to make a living.

Damned, I wrote another book!

Cheers,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#203484 - 02/24/04 09:13 PM Re: View my VIDEO CLIP ! SF Chinese New Year Festival Performance
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
Great job Scott. Really enjoyed both listening and watching you perform, especially under what most folks would consider extremely difficult circumstances--you came through like a real pro. Gary


Thanks the compliment. I had to admit that I was extremely surprised how well the video turned out, especially considering the fact that for a good portion of my performance, I could'nt even hear myself playing, as those LOUD incessantly banging drums (as evidenced in clip segment 2) kept overpowering the stage monitors. Believe it or not, what was picked up by the video camera's mic was probably better than what I could hear while performing

Quote:
Originally posted by the Pro:

I find that many arranger styles tend to sound repetitive and mechanical after a short period of time. I also find that it restricts my playing style too much to be triggering chordal progressions constantly.


Hi Jim, I agree that, especially for instrumentals, that 'arranger mode only' playing can quickly become limiting, not allowing you to stretch out and play the full keyboard in the way a true acoustic pianist can and does. But then again, unless you have 88 (or at least 76) notes of real estate at your disposal, it's not easily possible with just 61 keys. As far as styles sounding repetitive, that somehow is never an issue for me. The trick to convincingly live sounding arranger playing is making sure that you are always playing or doing something (ei: singing) LIVE all the time, and always interacting (in some way) with the auto-accompaniment. I don't know how much (or often) you other guys utilize the 'self fill' feature, but I use it at least every 8 measures, and occasionally every 4 measures. This to me reallly adds a LOT of spontaneous realism to the auto accompaniment. The other thing that takes away the feeling of style repetition is adding a drum hit, or triggering an instrumental fill or pattern via the multi-pad keys. For whatever reason, I've noticed there is little interest or discussion about the technique (art) of arranger keyboard playing. I feel there is a lot to be said about how to utilize the arrranger's unique buttons and features to create and maximize the uniquely impressive 'LIVE' performance that arranger keyboards provide. I hope we all continue to challenge ourselves to further develop & hone our arranger playing skills to take our arranger keyboard performance to the next level. Perhaps I start a new thread to discuss auto accompaniment arranger keyboard playing 'techniques' and see if there's any renewed interest.

Scott
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