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#200856 - 02/09/04 08:44 AM
Re: Hey ....let's repackage this keyboard ......
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
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Perhaps the 9000 Pro is in a class by itself because of the additional options ( 76 keys, plug in expansion, sampling to name a few ) that aren't likely to be seen on other Yamaha arrangers again any time soon.
Then again sampling on a keyboard, whether it is an arranger or rompler is no big deal. I have freeware Vst and standalone samplers that are easier and more intuitive to use than the sampling functions of the ES. Also, the plug ins Yamaha has put out are very good, but there are far too few, when compared vs what Roland and Korg makes available. The plug ins don't always integrate all that well with the ES either, although from what I've seen here, it's probably worse with the 9000.
Still, I'd pick up a 9000 pro if the price was right. I agree with Jim and Terry, and think it may continue to command a top dollar resale value.
In the end, unless the Fantom X blows me away ( and it might ) I'll probably keep the ES because the soundset is magnificent and I can stumble my way around the OS, though not always comfortably. What may make the difference for me is if the 'X' has at least an equal soundset, a decent pattern funcion ,and better arp capabilities than the Es with user arps. I know the original didn't have user arps but did the "s"? I know the OS is better to navigate in the Fantom series. If it comes out soon enough, and I can still get top dollar value for the ES, then maybe .. just maybe.
Roland does get high marks from me for the V synth. If I was into spending the big bucks on a new analog modeled synth, the 'V' would be it. I'd have been very disappointed had I bought the Moog Voyager ( it was a consideration ), and then tried the 'V' afterward.
Instead though, I'm going with the Arturia Moog and the CSV80 vst's ( for a combined price of about 400 USd ), and I couldn't be happier. I'm going to add the RGC z3ta, which has some sounds I never dreamed of in an analog modeled synth. Software is the way for me for now, because I can spend "top dollar" ( which is usually in the 100-300 range ) to add the sounds I want, without having to spend and inordinate amount on a new board.
AJ
[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-09-2004).]
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AJ
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#200857 - 02/09/04 04:43 PM
Re: Hey ....let's repackage this keyboard ......
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Member
Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 148
Loc: Haddonfield, NJ, USA
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in Roland's defense, every iteration of the Fantom has been a clear step up. I agree the timing is bad, but after yrs playing a yamaha arranger (9kpro) and waiting for yammy to build a logical replacement, I find the fantom-s, which I got for 1275, to be a great keyboard. the sounds are really strong, the expansion is nice, and it's possible to use the pads for drums/rhythm loops (which are easy to sample in and then edit) in an almost arranger-like way. I'm more inclined to work with Roland going forward, if just because it's clear they're thinking about ease-of-use in the OS and trying to sincerely better an already good product. can't wait to try the fantomX!
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#200859 - 02/09/04 06:30 PM
Re: Hey ....let's repackage this keyboard ......
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Senior Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
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Thanks for the info Terry. Yes, the ES has many arps, and some good ones. That's a big plus. Ease of editing, and the just fact that Fantom now allows user arps is another consideration though.
Quality is more important to me vs quantity. As I said, the Mo has some very good arps, but I have to go through the step of recording and saving each to a midi file if I want to edit the presets. I prefer to use an external sequencer, so more steps... Not particularly intuitive is it ?
Worse yet is trying to use the sampling function. I'd love to take some of those stunning Moog Modular /SV80 sounds and add them to the Motif soundset, to have available for live work. The Es, even with the AN150 plug in, can't closely imitate some of the sounds in those two Vsti's. I was able to add samples of one of the Moog patches and it sounds excellent played through the ES, but the time and effort it takes to do it just isn't worth the hassle.. not for me anyway. It would be a whole lot simpler to just bring along a laptop with a good soundcard and the appropriate software / softsynths lloaded in.
Yep, those Motifator guys are a different breed. Heaven help the poster who questions or offers constructive criticism for their "perfect" ( not ) machine....
One other feature that's important to me, if not a "must have", in any potential replacement for the ES, is the ability to use a breathe controller.
Tom,
Roland fell to the bottom of the pile for me with their recent offerings vs what the other major players have recently put out there. That changed instantly the day I tried the V synth out. I haven't been very inspired by Roland's "variphrase" technology either, until I saw it's application on the 'V'. Based on the demo's, and what I did like about the Fantom S, I think the Fantom 'X' may also be very much to my liking. That said, in the spirit of the original topic, I'd probably still be a little annoyed had I bought the 'S' a few months ago, and it was already being replaced. It's almost as if the 'S' was a failed experiment, doomed by Motif ES and TS II. Maybe that's totally inaccurate, but still how it looks and feels to me.
AJ
[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-09-2004).]
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AJ
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#200860 - 02/10/04 05:15 AM
Re: Hey ....let's repackage this keyboard ......
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Member
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
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AJ To the best of my knowledge and memory, The Fantom did not have a breath controller. I bought the one for the ES and just like so many other things Mo, can't get the hang of it. You're dead on about the sampler as well. After about 2 dozen tries and 1 what I would call success (got lucky I think) I gave up on the Mo sampler as well. To edit the wav file in it is a "yeah right." The slice and dice function is a "huh?" I'm really pretty disappointed overall, because I got off to a flying start with it then hit the Mo o/s brick wall. To me it's 99% too many sub menus to wade through to find something and non consistent logic as to where to find things. A perfect example to me is to turn the arp send switch on. Where and why they put it where they did instead of on the arp page I do not get. Same goes for the sort direct....why on earth is taht on a different sub menu than the arp page. Another huge thing for me is that the sounds do not have a natural sustain/decay. On the Tyros, if I play a note with the sustain pedal depressed it has a natural decay, with the Mo, the note stays at the same volume/dynamics until the pedal is released and then just cuts off abruptly. Too much tweaking and has to be done for every voice to counteract this. Sorry for having taken this thread and turned it into a rag on the Mo thread, but it's all good info for all who may be considering one. Terry Terry ------------------ jam on, Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html [This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-10-2004).]
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