I am considering buying the PSR3000 and was wondering if someone could tell me about the 32,000 note sequencer limitation. Approximately how long will it sequence for using all 16 tracks??? I know it depends on how many notes are played, but just wanted to get an idea. And also, psr3000 verses triton le and extreme? Which would you prefer?? Thanks to all who respond..

Those Tritons are not arrangers, so it's not a fair comparison. The sequencer is something I've never tapped into, sorry!
For what it's worth ... I see the Triton-LE as a dead horse in a year.....I'd stay away from it.

32000 note mem is 3-4 well written songs(around 8 trks ).

triton le and xtreme has 200,000 note mem.

3k is the arranger with best feature/price for now.

tritons are workstations with many users worldwide and great 3rd party support.though their sounds are repeated alot and are weak on acoustic dept they still sell.

before you compare read this first. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/009235.html

Thanks for the input. Forgot that the models I mentioned were from different worlds,(arranger vs workstation). I am definately in the market for arranger but love alot of the sfx you get with a workstation. Are some of those sfx available for PRS3000 and does it have some good effects in preset sounds? Last but not least, have also looked at the EXR5. Dont like the small polyphony, but other features seem comparable to PSR3000. What do you guys(and Gals)think?
Thank you.

I've owned both the Triton Prox-88 and the Tyros...

A few observations..

The piano samples in the Triton are very weak and thin sounding. Honestly, I could not use them in a live seting they are that bad.

The Tyros piano smaples are significantly better.

If you are looking to not use a basic piano and are looking more toward solo and pad sounds in the context of an ensemble, then the Triton will be more usable.

However, you can do all things with the Tyros as well.

The Tyros is much smaller and light wieght.

I was dissatisfied with the Triton from the moment I took it out of the box.

I have been thrilled with the Tyros since I took IT out of the box.

Very different keyboards, to be sure...I clearly prefer the Tyros.

Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 12-16-2004).]

thanks bill. Your input is greatly appreciated. I have looked at the triton and the PSR3000 seems to fit my budget better for now. Do you use sequencing often. Would like to hear some input on ease of use and capabilities.

Thanks again bill.

I tried to use the sequencer with the Triton and found out quickly it wasn't for me. You need to build each sequence from the ground up...one part at a time. One track for the kick drum, one for the snare, etc...Sometimes you can squeeze two in there, but I found it clumsy and time consuming.

Sequencing on the Tyros is very different...it records your sequence in full and in real time. Just no comparison in my opinion.

Also, the file management system on the Tyros is windows based and very easy to use.

The Triton was a headache, lol..

Bill in Dayton

The EXR5 is no where near in the same class as a PSR3000. Roland doesn't have anything in that price point to compete effectively.
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 12-16-2004).]

Since you can transfer all recorded sequence's to a smart media card or thumb drive (psr3000), the number of songs or notes the sequencer holds, is not as important in todays keyboards. Just my opinion ....

Dan O'



------------------
Ketron, Yamaha, Casio,Roland arranger keyboards.
http://www.keyboardcity.net

1-866-348-8876

Posted by Bill in Dayton:

"I tried to use the sequencer with the Triton and found out quickly it wasn't for me. You need to build each sequence from the ground up...one part at a time. One track for the kick drum, one for the snare, etc...Sometimes you can squeeze two in there, but I found it clumsy and time consuming."
-----------------------------------

Bill I'm confused by your response here. How did you go about recording patterns on the Triton? Were you using multiple tracks for each part of the drums? I don't see anything clumsy about constructing drum tracks on something like a Triton. I think they are way easier than arrangers. There's no need for multiple tracks on a workstation. You just pick a single track, and overdub each drum part. I would take a workstation any day because of how the pattern track layouts are arranged. The Motif is a good example. It works like my old EX-7. You can go into the pattern track and dial in a pattern at any measure in a song without ever having to wait for the part to play like you do on an arranger. You can chain an entire pattern togehter much quicker on a workstation. Again just my opinion on this.

Also you don't have to do one part at at time either with the drum recording. Just by practicing you can actually do the hi-hat, snare, kick, toms, cymbals, and fills all at the same time.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-16-2004).]

Squeak-

Its been awhile since I did it but I remember being able to record the kick and snare on one track, then do cymbals on 2nd track and I think fills and toms, etc on a 3rd...

To have to go through the entire length of a tune to record each part drove me crazy. If there was a faster way to do it, I couldn't figure it out from the dense owner manuals. PLUS, I even called KORG support and asked and was told I was doing it the best way. I also remember the cut/paste functions being beyond my understanding.

To then go back and lay down bass, and keys, strings, ...No, no, no...NOT for me...By the time I would finish a single song...I was so frustrated at the time it took.

I remember specifically a comment a KORG tech said to me one day trying to walk me through something. It was how I first really heard about arrangers...

The guy said, "...You probably would've been happier with one of our arrangers...These workstations aren't for everyone..."

Personally, I found the manual to be often more confusing than helpful. I don't consider myself mush of a techie...and the Triton just blew me out of the water.

Add in the pathetic piano sounds...the board just wasn't for me. I play lots of standards, oldies, country, etc...I don;'t ever need wild sawtooth sounds for example. The arrpegiator was another thing that I never had a clue how I could ever really use.

Bottom line, I bought the absolutely worst board for my needs I probably could've...No one to blame but myself.

Oh well, live and learn...The Tyros has better sounds (for my needs, at least) is easier for me to use, and soemthing that has made an incredible impact on my business...

Bill


[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 12-16-2004).]

Yeah the rep was right. Workstations aren't for everyone. It really depends on your needs for performance and song production. However with the Triton all of your drums could have been recorded on one track. You select a track, set the loop, and then just overdub each part. Your complete drums would be on one track, bass on another, keys on the next, and so forth. My old workstation had a dedicated 8 track pattern sequencer. It was really simple (actually Korg was probaby easier). If you use the pattern track correctly it doesn't take long to construct user patterns. You can do one single variation, then copy that bad boy several times and make slight changes to each copied pattern. I know arrangers let you copy too, but I don't know of any arranger that will allow you to truly do pattern chaining like you'd find on a Yamaha Motif.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-16-2004).]

guys again triton and tyros they are cats and dogs-different species.

if you want
triton and motif -compare it.
PA and tyros -compare it.

triton(or motif)have pattern record,loop record,erase/add while loop etc-alot of pro seq funcs that you need in all in one instrument(which you can 90% do what a software seq could do in avarage daily sequencing).on board sound editing is deep unlike tyros(BTW PA's editing is deeper than tyros too)
in a workstation (in general)
single drum sounds can be edited,panned,gated,overdriven with tube emulation,delayed with tempo control,make them cry with believable pedal wah(with exp pedal and onboard assign controllers-knobs to ribbon),and yes effects are much better-no thin sounding reverb chips-it's for pro seq and production.

tyros and arrangers however come handy when you lay down multiple tracks (by using styles).play the bass track or every track except drums(minor adjustments needed) but they sound canned compared to a workstation,OK for live but not that great for a CD production.
if you go software route you'll want a workstation (d/t support and editing for specific synths)by major programs-(sonar to logic)and yes workstation sounds better than arranger in general.not to mention wkstations EFX sound much better.
triton pro x is 88 keys - ofcourse it's heavier.and yes piano is not great.but it has sampling that tyros can't do.it has performance mode that tyros lack.it has realtime knobs/arp that tyros does not have.
and ofcourse it lacks styles,color display,less poly, etc etc.

so again they are cats and dogs.


[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 12-17-2004).]

I never knew there was a note limit as such; isn't the internal buffer for midi files about 300k or suchlike?

Anyhow, you could look at it like this: 32000 notes is about 100k worth of a midi file, at a moderately educated guess. It is also 100 notes per second for a 5 minute song.

The biggest (commercial) file I've loaded and run (on my PSR2000) has been 108k so far, and this was crammed with controller and paramater change data, with no problems. I suppose when I hit a problem it will be a straight fail rather than some gradual degradation as the file size approached the limit.

So as long as you stick to fairly normal pop song sequence lengths and do not go totally stupid with the arrangement you should have no problems at all.

Yeah 32,000 notes should be enough. Workstations like the Triton and Motif have huge note capacities not just for basic songs, but they have more notes for songs that may require a great deal of them such as techno music. If you have multiple arps going, a real complicated pattern track, bass lines, leads and so on you can eat up notes really fast. My old workstation believe it or not had only 30,000 notes for songs. It wasn't bad, but when you used a lot of arps you could see the capacity bar drop quicker. 32,000 notes on the PSR's is more than enough.

Squeak

Thanks for the input on the 32000 note subject. I only plan on normal use sequencing for now so givin your input, I think the psr3000 will do just fine. By the way, there is a couple of great videos on the 3000 and tyros at http://www.psrtutorial.com/L/lessons.html for those of you wanting to see them in action. If anyone knows of anymore sites that offer video on the 3000 and/or its big brother tyros, please let me know.

thank you all for your responses.