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#193646 - 08/18/01 01:14 PM New Plug-In-Boards for 9000Pro
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Hi George K and 9000Pro owners,
I was wondering if Yamaha is planig to bring out more plug-in-boards with more Cool!, Sweet! and Live! voices.
If enough people are interested maybe Yamaha will listen, and we don't have to buy a board every 2 years. I'm sure the Psr10K is just around the corner with lots more of those voices. It would be great to be able to upgrade our KB that way.
Maybe George can plant that thought into their mind...
What do you guys think?
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#193647 - 08/18/01 09:13 PM Re: New Plug-In-Boards for 9000Pro
dlstarry Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 698
Loc: MN. U.S.A.
HI:Eric
Sounds like a great idea to me, I would be
interested in upgrading the PRO instead of
buying a new KB.
Enjoying the 9000 PRO
Denny

[This message has been edited by dlstarry (edited 08-18-2001).]
_________________________
Denny
KN5000, Yamaha PSR-SX900

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#193648 - 08/19/01 01:20 AM Re: New Plug-In-Boards for 9000Pro
Wis Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 295
It is not sure but I heared something about
a new plug in board with Cool voices of hor-
ses and dogs. Great multisamples I suppose.

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#193649 - 08/19/01 08:32 AM Re: New Plug-In-Boards for 9000Pro
Tony W Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 836
Loc: Lancaster UK
Horses and dogs eh?
My first thought was WHY? My second was where is my valium and my third was unprintable!
However then I thought about it for a mo and suddenly realise how beneficial this could be. "How much is that doggy in the window" would sound like a bark (sorry) Bach composistion with the new voices and the theme tune from "Mr Ed"..... Neigh lets not go there!!
TTFN
Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony W (edited 08-19-2001).]

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#193650 - 08/20/01 12:40 AM Re: New Plug-In-Boards for 9000Pro
COMALite J Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/99
Posts: 86
Loc: Shreveport, LA, USA

Keep in mind that the MSPS (Modular Synthesis Plugin System, aka PLG) boards for the 9000Pro (and many other Yamaha devices, including the SW1000XG pro-quality PCI sound card for PCs, the S-03/30/80 line, the CS6x, the Motif line, the higher-end MU models, etc. etc. etc.) don’t work like other expansion cards for other brands. Theirs are for the most part just ROM memory loaded with more wave samples and presets. MSPS cards, on the other hand, add whole new synthesis and/or effects engines to the unit, enabling it to do whole new types of things it could not do before. Even the two that don’t really add new synthesis methods and do seem to merely add new AWM2 wavetable sounds in ROM(the PLG-150XG and and PLG-150PF boards) are still adding new AWM2 engines (which means more actual polyphony) and effects processors (more reverb, chorus, etc. units that can be assigned, added to the ones the host device already has!).

The others, though, not only add new engines and effects, but also (with the exception of the PLG-150VH) new synthesis methods! The VH board adds vocal harmony to devices that don’t already have it (the 9000pro would not need it, obviously), and may be able to add more harmony voices to those that do. But the really powerful ones are the PLG-150AN (emulates a Yamaha AN1X analog-modelled synthesizer, which in turn emulates the classic Prophet 5, the first mass-produced polyphonic analog synthesizer), the PLG-150DX (emulates the classic Yamaha DX-7 and its successors in the world of eight-voice six-operator FM synthesis), and my favorite, the PLG-150VL (emulates the Yamaha VL series of physically-modelled Virtual Lead synthesizers). Each of these works not by sampling the sounds of the Prophet 5 or DX 7 or real physical lead instruments into AWM2 samples in ROM, but by actually duplicating how those instruments worked! You don’t just get the sounds, you get all the powers (and then some) of those original instruments! The AN board can do frequency (with sync and/or ring mod, etc.) and filter sweeps, LFOs, etc. in real time, just like the original Prophet 5. Unlike the Prophet 5, all of that power can be controlled by MIDI! The DX board can change the frequencies, levels, envelopes, feedback levels, etc. of FM algorithms in real time, just like the original DX-7. Unlike the DX-7, this power is accessible through MIDI!

The VL board is best of all, in my opinion: it simulates the way real physical wind, brass, bowed and plucked strings, and other instruments work, not just duplicating their sounds but the real expressiveness that a professional human player of those instruments can do, variable in real-time under MIDI control! To hear that in action, check this Windows Media sound file out! Listen carefully to the sax throughout the first half and at the ending (especially that last note!), and the cornet-like brass solo that occurs about ¾ of the way through. Listen not only to the sound, but how the sounds change in the middle of notes, just as they would with a human player blowing on the reed or mouthpiece and varying breath pressure, embouchure (lips) shape, etc., and also how the attacks change from note to note depending on how the previous note was played. On the cornet solo, you hear some definite lip-slur going on. These aren’t effects that can be easily done with wavetable samples (not without huge multi-samples with specially-triggered cross-fades [like GigaSampler™], and even then the effect isn’t as real as this)! And keep in mind that my sample file isn’t anywhere near as good as VL can get. For one thing, what you’re hearing isn’t a 9000pro or other piece of high-end Yamaha gear with a VL board plugged in. It’s my PC’s $15 sound card with a Yamaha YMF724 chipset that has cheap low-quality implementations of basic sub-Level 1 XG and VL! The same MIDI stream would sound better on a 9000pro with PLG-150 VL installed. Better yet, I’d love to tweak it to use the 9000’s own Cool!, Sweet!, Live!, etc. voices for the backup instruments instead of the Level 1 XG voices it’s using now.


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#193651 - 08/20/01 12:00 PM Re: New Plug-In-Boards for 9000Pro
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Hi COMALite,
thanks for the great explanation. Very helpful. I also liked your musical presentation.
So let me get this straight for a newcomer like me, you're saying the VL board is like the Sweet! Cool! and Live! voices but better?
This is kind of what I'd be looking for.
Thanks again
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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#193652 - 08/29/01 02:38 PM Re: New Plug-In-Boards for 9000Pro
COMALite J Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/99
Posts: 86
Loc: Shreveport, LA, USA

Not exactly. The VL card adds over 300 new voices that are physically modelled as opposed to sampled. The one disadvantage of this is that it is so computation-heavy that at present the Yamaha VL units, including the VL card, are limited to producing one note at a time. But what a note! This is intended for either a solo/melody line or an extra-powerful and expressive bass line, with the regular wave-sampled sounds from the host device (and/or perhaps another PLG card, say, a PF or XG or AN or DX) providing the backup sounds. You can switch which instrument is being used, as I did with the above song (when I modified it from the original found on the NTonyX website), but you can only use one at any one time and it can only play one note at any one time.

Also, most of the voices don’t sound all that great when you just press keys on the keyboard. The power of VL is in the expressiveness, and to get that you need to have additional input above and beyond what can be done with keyboards alone (even with aftertouch). A foot pedal (not the switch type, but the kind that is similar to an organ’s expression pedal) can help here, but for best results you need to obtain either a Breath Controller or a Wind Controller. A Breath Controller fits in your mouth and plugs into a special jack on the back of the host unit, while a Wind Controller looks like a small clarinet or some such and has its own MIDI Out jack that can plug into a MIDI In jack. If you play solo, you would use a Breath Controller. If you have someone who knows how to play, say, a clarinet or a soprano sax, you can have them use a Wind Controller (the keying patterns are the same). Both detect breath pressure, and some even detect lip-shape (embouchure), tonguing, biting, and other things wind players do to alter the tonality of their sounds. My sample song above used special PC software to simulate Breath Controller input to the VL, but that’s not an option with an arranger keyboard — you need live Breath Controller input. As one review stated, VL sounds only come alive when you breathe life into them yourself.

The VL preset sounds include far more than just winds, brasses, solo bowed and plucked strings, etc. You also get combination sounds that don’t exist in reality, such as what a clarinet might sound like if it had a flute mouthpiece! You also get out-of-this-world synth and sound effects sounds like Space Horse (move the Mod Wheel up and it “whinnies”!), Waterphone (I can not describe this one! You just have to hear it!), and Jurassic (simulates various dinosaur roars), all with powerful real-time expressiveness that no wavetable sample could possibly achieve! Some months ago I posted a list of the default VL voices with brief notes on what they do and what expressive effects they have.

As if that weren’t enough, you can make your own sounds, either by modifying existing ones (such as effectively taking the mouthpiece of a saxophone and putting it on a trombone body, for instance, as well as modifying numerous parameters), or even building your own physical models from scratch (the latter is expert stuff, but is very, very powerful)!


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#193653 - 08/29/01 08:04 PM Re: New Plug-In-Boards for 9000Pro
Eric, B Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 2028
Loc: Ventura, Ca, USA
Hi COMALite
Again, thanks for the great explanation.
Eric
_________________________
Genos, PSR-S970, TC Helicon VoiceLive3, Mackie 802-VLZ3 Mixer, 2 Bose L1 Pro16, Electro-Voice ZXA1 Subwoofer

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