Whether it is or not, this is what comes to mind when I play my Tyros 2 in arranger mode. In case there is no such word, just substitute "how to throw up without sticking your finger down your throat". Diki, in another thread, talks about the problem with styles (as have I) and he's right. Ditch the "Schlager" and concentrate on some modern styles......and by the way, do the styles in such a way that it doesn't sound like "Schlager" with a hip-hop beat (with strings on top). IMHO, anyone who is satisfied with the current state of on-board styles in the Tyros2 truly deserves the status of "home user". You may also squeak by if your professional musical ambitions don't extend beyond the local nursing home or perhaps the coffee shop next door to one. I know this sounds like Tyros2 bashing and in a way it is, but there has been a lot of talk lately about how to improve the arranger keyboard and expand it's market. Although the PA1x Pro is only marginally better in terms of styles (again IMO), it at least makes an effort to sound believable and thus makes up for any perceived inferiority in sound or voice quality. All the current models need to catch up in the technology department. Given that most modern musicians are pretty computer savvy, it's nothing short of amazing that they can con us into buying (at a premium price, even) this old, old technology. On a different note, someone else in a prior thread also noted that the level of musicianship, talent, and professionalism, was considerably lower on this (arranger) board than say on a comparable "workstation" board. Whether or not we want to believe it, that person was also correct. No matter how supportive we want to be (a good thing), some of the musical offerings on this board are beyond awful. I'm not suggesting that we let some of our beloved members know the truth about their respective talent level; heck, as long as they're having fun....... but I do think that we need to acknowledge that every time we strike that chord in "arranger" mode, we are playing someone else's music, usually someone far more talented and accomplished than ourselves. Oh, and one last thing, let's take those darn built-in microphones off the arrangers, it tempts to many awful singers to try it. Hope I didn't spoil anyone's Sunday.

Peace,

chas

Hope I didn't spoil anyone's Sunday.

Obviously, by the huge number of responses, it didn't seem to bother anyone at all! Definitely didn't offend me because I'm not a musician--I'm an entertainer.

Kinda' like the three guys that died and were in the process of entering Saint Peter's Gate. Each was asked how money much they made annually when alive. The first claimed he netted more than $1-million per year. When asked what he did to earn this huge sum, he responded "I was a corporate CEO for a major drug company."

The second said he made nearly the same amount. When asked what he did for a living he said "I headed one of the world's largest banks."

The third person said "I made $15,000 last year!" To which Saint Peter responded "What instrument did you play?"

Whatever floats your boat,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

"Oh, and one last thing, let's take those darn built-in microphones off the arrangers, it tempts to many awful singers to try it. "

Chas,
I may be awful, but I'm the only singer in my one-man-band! The built-in mic keeps me from lugging extra gear around. Sometimes I have two or three appearances the same day, and every little bit of weight and time adds up.
And, unless you are doing all your own songs,(and there's a HUGE market for that), we all are playing someone else's music.
In years past I made most of my own styles from scratch, but that's no longer necessary, although I edit a lot of them.
I found out years ago that I could play with a band, have a good time and bring home enough money to cover expenses, or I could do it all myself and bring home enough to live on. Before arrangers it was necessary to use a drum machine, maybe kick bass pedals, stack a few synths and modules. Now it is much easier thanks to arrangers.
You may very well be right about the average playing ability of participants on workstation forums. What might be interesting to compare is income made from playing music live. I wonder how many have achieved level of professionalism that allows them to live off their musical ability. I'm not being sarcastic, I think this would be interesting to know.
There are most surely several ranges of arranger enthusiasts here, ranging from rank beginners to seasoned pros. We all seem to get along very well most of the time. I'll bet there are more arguments in the average family than there are on this forum. If we were all alike, it would be pretty boring.
Anyway, I'm not a Tyros 2 fan either, although I've tried hard to be. I just can't get around the drum sounds, after hearing Ketron's.
As for the Nursing Homes, I get more pleasure and satisfaction from performing for the old people (that's anybody older than I am!) than anything else I do. Plus, it keeps me from having to get a real job! It's a no-lose situation--you bring joy to a room full of people, many of whom don't get much joy, AND you get a handful of money to boot. But the nicest part yet is that they truly appreciate you.
One other thought, I probably have replaced a third of the styles in my SD1, and don't use another third of the ones that are left. But it's nice to have some of those tired old things on there when someone plops down a hundred and requests "Never On Sunday" or some such smaltz! Hit that Cha-cha button and smile all the way to the bank.
Anyway, we can't disagree with a lot of what you said, but there is always another side and another perspective.
Far from ruining my evening, you've made me stop and appreciate the fact that I've been given the gift of music, and have been lucky enough to do it well enough to share with others.
Peace to you also!
DonM

Very well said, Don ...
t.

Don.......ditto....ditto and a bigger DITTO!

BTW, Chas.. I'd love tp hear some of your orignal work myself ....why not post a few songs for us?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-19-2006).]

Hi Chas,

first of: yes the word Schmalz is a German word, it does exist and means pretty much what you think it does.

Secondly I agree with you a 100% on some of the things you said even though I do have a T2 and love it....

However I do want to explain to you a few things without agreeing or disagreeing. Just the way things are.
We kinda talked about this already.
One of the biggest markets in sales is Germany. The US has about 5% of the world sales....
Like it or not that's just the way it is.
Music in Europe is very different in some ways than in the US.

There are many OMB type people that make a good living playing mostly parties.
Remeber the guy from Norway how much he makes?

Anyways just like in the US you have to cater to the younger and older crowd.
The older crowed in Germany wants to hear Schlager......

Since it is the biggest sales market you'll find those styles in the T2. End of story.

I myself like Rock, Pop, Disco, Dance and Hip hop better too... but so what.
First off there are plenty of styles besides Schlager (which are about only 10 or so) in the T2 and tons off great proffessional styles for purchase on the internet.
I couldn't be happier.

I learned right away that if you tweak the Yamaha styles a little you get amazing results. Ad some 3rd party styles and you are in busyness..
A friend of mine who plays a Ketron kept saying: I can't believe how great your 9000Pro sounds...
It's all about making a KB your own.

Anyway me being very happy with the T2 does not make YOUR board less valuable to YOU.
I might not like the PAX-1 or the G-70 as much as the T2, but it doesn't make it less powerful in the right hands.

So far I have enjoyed all songs posted here on the Synthzone: T2, G-70 and PAX-1.... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img]

I thing we gotta stop that game of mine is better or bigger than yours, somehow it leads to the road of nowhere [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img]

All top boards are great now and thank God they are all different to suit our different needs. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img]

When you buy a Ford because it suits your needs best, do you drive around and keep saying Toyota is crap? I hope not... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Whatever is good for you might be the opposite for somebody else and vice versa.

I think that's the point that some off us have been trying to make lately..... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img]

If you found what you are looking for in a Korg and me in a Yamaha, that's great... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

So let's enjoy our boards and each others music, because that's what it's all about. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Remember 90% or more of your audience doesn't know the difference anyway and doesn't care. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Let's make some good music.... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Best regards

Eric

Hi Chas:
Just love your idea of "removing the built in Mic. as it tempts those awful singers to try it out"
Let's take this one step further - Let's remove those built in Keys so as not to tempt those awful players.
This makes about as much sense as buying a $3,000+ Keyboard (as you did) without trying it out first. A little common sense would have left you $3,000+
richer and a lot happier.
Just an honest critique. By the way I don't own a T2, but did travel 400 miles
on 3 occasions to try out the SD1+ before I purchased it.
Bruce

First of all, posts like mine usually surface when one suddenly realizes that it's Sunday afternoon and football season is over . DonM, I agree with 99% of everything you say. I also still agree with 100% of what I said. Funny that you should be one of the first responders, as almost nothing I said applies to you (being one of the 3 or 4 true pro's on the board). Actually, I was just stirring the pot a little as things were starting to get a little ah, booooooring. DNJ, as to your suggestion that I put up some of my original material; I may be old and ugly but not stupid. I was lucky enough to recognize my mediocrity early which is one reason that I can spot it so easily in others (hint...the first phase is denial). And to whoever chided me for being dumb enough to shell out $3000 for a KB I hadn't tried first hand, I couldn't agree more (which is why in previous posts I have discouraged others from making the same mistake). But, not to worry, my mood will soften again once the winter olympics are over and I no longer have to validate my marriage vows by watching several hours of figure skating each night (old but not yet ready to give up sex). Have a good night.

chas

I hope I can make my comments without being rude and offensive.
But just because someone does not use his or her talent professionally does not say that they are not talented only they may lack the confidence and the guts to make a living out of it or do not wish to do so.
I have heard amatuers that would equal or surparss professionals.
In regard to microphones in arrangers I dearly love the combination.I have been in the past anti microphone and did not use one
but have now learnt their value.They at least let you hear what the audience hears and
could deter some bad singers from inflicting their voices on audiences.

Cousin Ken

Chas, we are having our first (and probably only) winter weather of the year--ice and sub-freezing temps. I have watched two golf tournaments, a basketball game and spent several hours working on the Midjay. Now I'm watching the Winter Olypics while ordering arthritic-size grips for my golf clubs.
I'm glad you made your post and it seems as if it is getting a wholesome discussion going.
Also, THANKS for the nice comments about me.
DonM

Originally posted by Cgiles .


Well, it's Monday morning so you didn't ruin my Sunday or Monday morning for that matter.

Here's my 2 cents:
Back in the mid 70s when I was an aspiring piano student it became very apparent I would be better suited to enter the business school at the University of Rhode Island than try to become a struggling musician playing "Classical Music" For most of my adult years I simply played my grand piano at home. Spending much of time playing things like the Pathetique Sontata (Bethoveen), The Revoltionary Etude( Chopin). Allegro Barbaro (Bartok). Pictures at an Exhibition (Mussorsky). Also had some fun playing some of the Emerson, Lake and Palmer stuff. Fun yes it was to me but much of that didn't appeal to many others. BTW, I swore I'd never play a song like " Tie the Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree" and other "Schmalz" That music was for others, not for me.

Fast forward to 1998 when my wife bought as a novelty a Casio $149.99 keyboard. I laughed at this toy but also discovered it could make lots of music. That summer I brought it along to a 4th of July party and everyone who heard it loved it. Later that year I bought another Casio Wk1300( I think that was the model). Then in 2000 I bought a Clavinova CVP 107. Wow, I was really having fun, even started to play "Tie A Yellow Ribbon." When friends and family heard me play some comments were, why aren't you playing out every weekend, you sound real good. The answer use to be I have my daytime job and I'd rather have weekends off than to tie them up playing music. At the time my wife and I'd would rather be alpine skiing, training for a road race, triathlon or relaxing on the beach depending on the season.

In late 2004, I got tired of just playing at home for my wife and the dog.Eventually I bought a PSR 3000. I started marketing myself to nursing homes, coffee shops anywhere that would hire me. And I have played one coffee shop for tips only to gain a little experience and have some fun. Because much of playing music is for fun not a command performance for the King or Queen. I'm
averaging about 4 gigs per month now( enough for me when my average work week is 50 hours) . And my business is building, getting lots of repeat business and new as well. Maybe musical instrument manufacturers should just stop making these silly keyboards and keep me back at home on weekends where my wife thinks I belong anyway.

Chas, though I respect your personal opinion, I disagree.

Also, considering the fact that I'm one of the few pro musician-vocalists here utilizing a "Tyros2", and who has recently contributed my songs here as well, wondering if perhaps you had been referring to ME?!

Yeah, I perform at nursing & senior venues too (btw: I agree with DonM that these gigs are often most personally gratifying), but my gig work is 'far from' limited to just that. Tyros2 'styles & sounds', in the right hands (no 'schlager' here), can sound top-notch pro. My gig venues also include commercial restaurant/bar establishments as well as exclusive private & corporate parties, in which local dignitaries & celebs frequent, and the music (+ vocals) I provide on Tyros2 continue to satisify my most discriminating clients (of which are often pro musicians too), evidenced by repeat business & generous tips.

Chas: The best of luck to you in finding the (arranger?) keyboard you're really looking for.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 02-20-2006).]

Eric,

Well said my friend. I do have to disagree with you on one thing. I think at least 95 percent of the audience doesn't know the difference anyway and doesn't care. You give them too much credit.

Tom

Scott, not every "lousy singer" reference is directed at you......I don't think. Whoa, whoa, just pulling your chain . First off, most of the time much of what I say is tongue-in-cheek. I alluded to as much in my follow-up post. For some of our members for whom English is a second language, the subtleties of American bullshit may escape them so to those members let me assure you that I am not advocating actually removing the microphone from the keyboard. Besides, lousy singers have a way of finding a mic even if you put it at the top of a tree. As for my finding an arranger that I like, that is a minor goal; finding STYLES that I like is the challenge for me. So again, it's not the Tyros2 that I don't like, it's those syrupy-sweet styles that bring on the nausea. In the end though, not having to listen to the guitar player constantly tuning or having to subsidize the drummers rent, makes any ol' arranger awfully appealing. Oh, and about those nursing homes, I may very well end up in one sooner that I'd like, but please, if you run across me in the audience, no Schlager...please, please.

chas