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#190810 - 08/20/03 09:05 PM Frank- FLR2003 status?
Vquestor Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 554
Frank,
We haven't hear from you in quite a while.
I was wondering if you built your six-pack-
size computer yet, and how things are
working out?

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#190811 - 08/21/03 05:21 AM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Vquestor, things are still progressing along those lines. A relative of mine will be purchasing (at a very low price) one of my computers once she has enough money saved. Once that happens I will put together my shuttle version of a music computer.

In the meantime, I am one of the beta testers for Brainspawn's forte wrapper. It seems like a very good VST/DX instrument and effects wrapper. In addition, they will design a future version with Audio in, e.g., voice, etc. so that I could use VoiceMachine or DecaBuddy. If this happens then this will be the most slick and economical approach to a totally software based solution for arranger systems. Currently, I use Cubase SX (expensive) with Project5 Rewired (expensive). It works very well but it is not slick as forte would be with Audio In. VoiceMachine still does not work in real time - very large delay. Steinberg will correct this in a future update of Cubase SX. Apparently older versions of Cubasis do not have this problem.

Soundtrek seems to be very slow in coming out with a Windows XP compatible Jammer Live. Similarly, Seersystem's Reality is nowhere to be found for Windows XP. Oh well, I don't need them. LiveSynth is doing a fine job.

I just installed VRSound's 3D Pipes which emulate the Baylor University magnificent pipe organ. It sounds very good indeed. It consists of 46 presets for the 4 manuals and the pedals. The whole sample set is about 400 MB.

I have started to tweak the Tyros styles for use on my system. They sound like Yamaha, i.e., fairly good.

I am still very pleased with my system. It is efficient and effective - it is reliable, plays well and sounds excellent.

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#190812 - 08/21/03 08:21 AM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
Frank,
Can you explain, in layman's terms, why you require 2 sound cards to operate your FLR2003 keyboard?
Thanks
Starkeeper
_________________________
I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#190813 - 08/21/03 02:21 PM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Starkeeper, actually you don't need two soundcards if you can take the somewhat lower quality of an Audigy for both the accompaniment and the melody/lead voices. I needed the Audigy at first because there was no easy way to play styles with program changes. The soft synths are not very good at this. As a result, I used the Audigy for this and the M-Audio Audiophile for my lead/melody voices. It worked real good!!!

It is now about a year or so later and there are very good soft synths around that can accept program and effect changes from the style player, e.g., Project5 with LiveSynth Pro. I can rewire Project5 thru to Cubase SX launch Kontakt for my lead voices and DecaBuddy for my vocal harmonies. As a result, I really only need one soundcard. I have sold the M-Audio and purchased the Steinberg VSL2020. This soundcard is a step up from the Audiophile. Once I build my Shuttle Music Computer, I will likely go to one of the top RME soundcards.

In the meantime, I have kept my Audigy to serve as 2 Midi In/Output Ports as well as a mic input. The sound of the mic is sent thru to the VSL2020 for processing.

So the short and the long answer is you only need one soundcard. You can use the Audigy for most things including ASIO, WDM and GSIF drivers if you use the KX Project Drivers. You will find however that the so called professional cards give slightly better performance (Signal to Noise, dynamic range, frequency response, distortion, etc.).

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#190814 - 08/21/03 09:08 PM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Vquestor Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 554
Frank,glad to hear everything is progressing
smoothly.
What did you think of the other wrapper
I had recommended to you (along with Brainspawn Forte) called RT Player Pro?
I have been playing around with Brainspawn's
Solo and think it is excellent.
The only thing is that it does not work
with the Roland VSC DXi that comes with
Cakewalk, but will work with the HyperCanvas
DXi Demo. I hope their audio version, you described, becomes a reality soon.
BTW, doesn't Vsampler3 beta accept program
and bank changes like LiveSynth?

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#190815 - 08/22/03 05:21 AM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Vquestor, you are right that not all DXi or VSTi work with Brainspawn. It appears, among other things, any instrument or plugin specifically keyed to an application like Cubase or Cakewalk will not work in Brainspawn. My guess is that this is some form of copy protection. The good news is that there are enough around that will work with Brainspawn or any other wrapper.

I have not taken a close look at RT Player Pro as of yet.

VSampler 3 does accept program and effects changes but it continues to have problems finding the Yamaha Drum Kits in Bank 127 (16256). So far the only solution I know is to go into each style with a sequencer and change to the appropriate drum bank, i.e., from 16256 to Bank 127 (really the same thing). Once having done this VSampler works great. This is alot of work and as a result I will stay with LiveSynth Pro. LiveSynth Pro uses the Alive (Soundfaction) voice editor to change or edit any of the voices/instruments in the Wavetable. So far this seems to work well.

Vquestor, its about time that I acknowledged all your suggestions (Brainspawn, LiveSynthPro, etc.). I probably would not have stumbled on these without your help. In fact, this was the last step in my totally sofeware based arranger system, nemely the, flr2003. It works beautifully!!!

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-22-2003).]

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#190816 - 08/22/03 05:13 PM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Vquestor Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 554
Vquestor, its about time that I acknowledged all your suggestions (Brainspawn, LiveSynthPro, etc.). I probably would not have stumbled on these without your help. In fact, this was the last step in my totally sofeware based arranger system, nemely the, flr2003. It works beautifully!!!

Frank, you are much too kind (although it is
nice to be appreciated after all the countless searches and inquiries). But, by the same token, it is you, whom all of us have to thank, for your investment in all the time and money in making the flr2003 a reality. Believe me, I'm as happy as you are!!
BTW, it's too bad you already sold your
M-audio card because the "RT Player" is
supposed to be optimized for it's use.
Also, is Live-Styler still your program of choice or have you switched to OMB 5.0?

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#190817 - 08/22/03 05:51 PM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Vquestor, thanks for kind comments.

At the moment I still use Live - Styler as my first choice. It has an excellent user interface. You can tailor it to suit your needs, e.g., performance setups for styles and voices, etc. In addition, if I get a touch screen in future it is well suited for that approach (Refer Branda in Germany www.branda.de ). OMB has its pluses too. It plays the PSR2000, Tyros, etc. styles better, i.e., without modification for such things as OTS.

Finally, you might be right that I missed an opportunity with M-Audio and RT Player Pro. Oh well!!!

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#190818 - 08/28/03 10:33 AM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
Frank,
Can you explain some terminologies for me?
Is Live Synth Pro a standalone Software synthesizer? Why does it need to be used with Project 5? Project 5 is a soft synth workstation. You said you can "rewire Project 5 thru Cubase SX". Do you need Cubase SX, Project 5 and live synth pro all running plus "live - Styler" to get the arranger functionality?
Does Kontakt have some excellent organ sounds, or would I have to get NI B4 for that?
Starkeeper
_________________________
I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#190819 - 08/28/03 02:27 PM Re: Frank- FLR2003 status?
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Starkeeper, you ask some menacing questions.

First off, LiveSynth Pro is a DX instrument and needs a DX Wrapper like Project5 or Brainspawn. Given I also wish to use a Vocal Harmonizer like DecaBuddy or VoiceMachine, I need something like Cubase which allows you use these effects and to import your voice. The vocal harmonizers do not work in Cakewalk Sonar or Project5. Alternatively there is no DX to VST conversion software that I can find. So by Rewiring Project5 to Cubase SX I got everything I need (expensive and not very elegant - but it works well) Once Brainspawn comes out with Audio Inputs then I have it made. It imports both DXi and VSTi as well as effects.

If you have no need for a vocal harmonizer then you have the world as your oyster, e.g., Brainspawn, Project5, Console, etc. All these will load LiveSynth and Kontakt. Alternatively, you could use Cubase SX if you can find a good Soundfont VSTi, e.g., VSampler 3.0, etc. Best of all would be a Yamaha XG to GM style conversion, especially the drums. This would allow you a great deal of freedom to choose excellent wavetables such as Edirol's HQ Sound Canvas.

Kontakt comes with few samples of their B4. In addition, I use Sonic Implants B3 samples which are very good and relatively inexpensive. These samples include, slow and fast rotating speakers, stopped rotator and many drawbar settings. As you know I have the B4 also but often use the Sonic Implant samples. This facilitates setting up and loading 8 or so instruments into Kontakt to cover a given genre of music, e.g., jazz. These samples come in Giga Format and need to be converted to Kontakt. Kontakt does a good job converting these samples.

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