Terry,
Perhaps Sonar has correct (not too loud) levels, but distortion seems to be generated before recording :Preamps or mixingconsoles stages (gain). Please listen careful to the fretless or electric-guitar track !

I never noticed conversion problems from any format to MP3 with either levels (distortion) or stereo-images..... so I don't think you are right on this.

It would be very interesting to know how your equipment is connected/routed. What signal goes where and how ? What actions do you take to record the fretless ? etc.

I put my setup in an easy/simple to read drawing created in Powerpoint on 1 single A4 sheet and advise all friends to do the same. This is very helpfull while making changes in wiring and makes all easy to understand.

Once the drawing is in the studio, recording and/or troubleshooting is a piece of cake.

Roel

Thanks Terry and Roel for sharing your project. As I stated before, this is the sort of thing that can benefit many, including recording novices, such as myself. So please allow me to ask a novice question, regarding only the vocal part.

As others, I noted the somewhat 'tunnel' effect (echo?)on the origional version. The Roel remix brought out the vocal with more clarity and presence... like the voice is now in the same room as myself. It would seem to be simply the result of decreasing the vocal reverb and increasing the vocal volume (relative to the other tracks)? Gotta be more to it than that, right? Thanks

Glenn
Recording Tech Wannabe

Finally got to listen to the remix--what an incredible transformation. Outstanding job! Really brought out Terry's vocal qualities and provided a clean, crisp accompaniment.

Thanks for sharing this valuable information,

Gary

Terry, you must decide if you are playing to please yourself or others. The remix, in my opinion, sounded 100 times better.
But, it's your voice and your choice.
Hey that may make a great song!
DonM

Don I totaly agree with your oppinions...
I think Terry should take a little more time in between CD projects before their release to the masses & work out all the editing problems.

Honestly Ter I can't understand how you say you liked your first version, now this is not a matter of liking, but to be honest with you when I heard you first take no offence it sounder very Amature mix to me and I guess to all excepth you , I don't know what is it that you liked.

I might agree with you that Roel mix might sound a bit Treblish but come on Terry I wouldn't think of compering your first mix with what it is now.

I told you when I heard your first cut that your voice is very nice but mixedown to be honest was horrible, I am not bieng harsh but honest.

[This message has been edited by ziggy (edited 01-06-2004).]

Well,
I will leave it all as differing opinions as opposed to digressing into a debate.

What I will say though about my mixing philosophy on vocals though is this and I think where quite a bit of the difference of opinion perhaps is coming from....

I prefer mine or anyone's vocals to be treated with just a slight bit more prominence (so that the lyrics can be heard)than any other instrument in the mix. Wereas the differing philosophy here seems to be the vocals are everything and anything else in the mix should fall way behind them. For my own tastes I do not agree with that mixing philosophy on vocal pieces.

I know very well that's the way everyone does it and that's the way it is traditionally done. I just do not happen to subscribe to that.

As far as cutting back and working out the "editing problem...first this cd is not released yet it and has to go to a final mastering yet before it is committed to cd by me. I do not just write and record anything and say ok, that's good put it on a cd. I certainly take my work as seriously as everyone else here takes theirs.

The fact that I work at a feverish pace at creating it does not mean that at least IMO that I accept whatever crap comes out of my mouth and hands. Easily 5x's the amount of work that I do commit to cd, never makes it to the recording phase and winds up in the studio shredder.

Because others perhaps may take 2 years to get enough tunes together for a cd, it does not necessarily follow that those who work at an accelerated pace are cutting corners at any phase along the way.
thanks for everyone's input,
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Why do you consider that discussion or opinions given by people on this topic which you initiated "digressing"?
You offered your work to the masses for opinions and when its critisized you seem angered at the responses versus talking about it here on the SZ. Isn't this what your intended reasoning for posting it in the first place was? Im a bit confused?


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-06-2004).]

I'm a bit confused too Terry.

I hoped to be able to figure out what is wrong in your setup/recording methods and left some questions.
It looks like you prefer to close this thread ? (leaving Q's un-answered)
I hope I did not hurt you in my comments.... if yes I apologize.

Roel

Donny,
I think this is rather unfair of you. I have taken more heat about my work than anybody here and the vast majority of the time my response has been thanks I appreciate the feedback, with the exception of the time that someone was just being damn rude.

Reread this thread do you see any angered responses from me? No you do not, you see, that is a valid criticism, thanks for the feedback and input. You also see my explainations for doing things the way I hear them or want to hear them.

However, my opinion is met finally with I cannot believe you prefer your amateurish mix, and you need to kick back and take more time, which implies that I just rush through to get it onto a cd and am taking shortcuts and accepting what is unfinished poorly edited work. We have digressed from discussing thoughts about improving the cut to baseless opinions.

If you would like a further discussion as to why I prefer the original mix over Roel's, here's why.
When the cut first starts it sounds like the electric guitar is playing in a different room. It's muted and distant. Three tracks were left off the mix an acoustic rhythm and an acoustic lead and the congas.

The entire rhythm section and drums went from a mellower sound to a harder sound. Way too spacious of a reverb the echos bouncing off hard walls was not the intended sound I was trying to produce.

There is way too much air space between the instruments, it sounds like they are all playing in opposite corners of a huge hard walled warehouse.

The vocals though far more prominent and clear, have so much treble to them, it's sounds like I have a lisp in spots.

I'm really not sure what else it is you wanted me to discuss. You all prefer Roel's mix and that's ok with me, it is a good mix, just not the mix I intended for the cut.

I really do appreciate everyone's interest and feedback they have provided here and in fact was the point of this thread. What I saw in the final few posts though was that we were now going to start slinging hash and is why I said I accept all the opinions and will leave it as just a difference of opinion.

If you or anyone has something constructive that they would like to add about either or both of the mixes, I would be more than happy to discuss it further. On the other hand if we want to get into personal insults, like it's amatuerish, or a waste of bandwidth, or unfinished, or get theory lessons, or poor recording and editing, then It really does not interest me to engage in what is sure to become a flame war.

I put the cut up so we could all learn and venture constructive feedback from both sides. Not to start fights and insults.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html