Okay, you want Tenor Sax you get Tenor Sax. This is a song called Goodbye by the Spice Girls. Every sound is produced by the Tyros. The Tenor Sax is the Tyros' Sweet! Tenor Sax.

Enjoy Boo! And everyone else for that matter. The first link is a standard .mp3 encoded at a high rate. The second link is the same recording only in .mp3PRO format for those on a dial-up connection.

Goodbye

Goodbye mp3PRO Version

I think the Sweet! Tenor Sax on the Tyros is outstanding but I'm sure there's some naysayers out there who think otherwise.

Oh well, to each his own. But for those with discriminating ears, I can not fathom why you would think the Tyros Sweet! Tenor Sax is sub-par or even mediocre. Those that dis it cannot seem to provide anything better on their own Keyboard. Although the TALK is there I don't see the WALK to go along with it. What is that term; oh yes -"put up or shut up?!?!".

Best regards,
Mike

Mike,

Nice job on the song. The Tyros sounds great however the tenor sax sounds only ok and sort of fake sounding. I bought and returned the psr9000, 2000, and the 2100. One of the main reasons I returned them was because the brass and woodwind voices were not up to the quailty of the comparable voices on my Ketron X-1. The Yamaha does some things and some sounds better than mine but woodwinds and saxes were not one of those things. It may be possible that the sax is improved on the Tyros over the other Yamahas that I tried but your MP3 to my old ears didn't sound that way.

I've played in a 16 piece big band for 30 years and I know a sax when I hear one. Our lead sax player played sax and clarinet in THE Navy band during WWII. A stroke at age 78 retired him from playing with us a couple of years ago. His name was Ray Stralko and he was outstanding. Boo has probably played a sax for more years than you are old. Who are you to tell him what a real sax sounds like.

None of us have to put up or shut up. If you haven't heard the Ketrons and the Gems and the Rolands and the Korgs and ALL the rest you are just running off at the mouth.

Most of us on the forum have stopped this "my board is better than your board" nonsense. Remember that in the end most all of the sounds are imitations of the real thing. Your tenor sax and my tenor sax are still instant coffee.

On a positive note keep up the good work on the playing. I have never heard that Spice Girl tune before but it was nicely done.

Regards,

Tom

Hi Mike, assuming that this is a commercially produced standard midi file in which you simply re-voiced the sounds to utilize the Tyros' panel voices, I think this might be an unfair evaluation of the Tyros' 'Sweet Tenor' voice.

Mike, did you record the Tenor Sax melody track yourself, and on the Tyros? If not, then the playing technique required to bring out the type of Tenor Sax sample included in the Tyros was not used. The Tyros' Sweet Tenor Sax incorporates vibrato 'built into the sample itself', which requires a different type of playing than the voices in most standard midi files do. Even so . . .

I still have to agree with Tom that the sax sounds just ok sounding for a keyboard. As a devoted Tyros owner myself, and who has compared the Tyros & SD1 side by side, admit that the tenor sax sounds on the SD1 sound more realistic & lifelike.

Mike, I also suggest, if you are using commercial midi files to 'show off' the Tyros, it would only be fair to credit the company or individual who originally recorded (produced) the midi file.

Thanks for your work and efforts.

Scott

Mike
For me it's not a question of one board to another, it's a comparison of any board to the real deal.

I suggest that you go have a listen to the likes of Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins or John Coltrane, to hear what a real tenor sax sounds like. You can listen to short clips of any of them on the cd's for sale sites.

Are you insecure about having bought your Tyros or something that you keep trying to prove how cool it is? Those of us that own them already know it, those that don't and prefer other boards, don't care and you'll never convince them that it's better than what they like.
You keep beating a dead horse here.
Terry


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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 03-04-2004).]

You know, I think Mike is probably a younger guy who shelled out some hard-earned cash and bought Tyros. He shows the unbridled enthusiasm that I did 15 years ago with my Ensoniq Mirage synthesizer. I think I sample myself coughing about 500 times and forced people to listen to my rendition of Jingle Bells played to coughing, ala Ferris Bueler.

I think Mike is just really proud of how his board sounds and is hearing new things from it every time he downloads another midifile and plays it for the first time.

Some of his "authentic sounds" arguments are a little naive in my opinion, but he makes me really wish I could be as excited about a product. I'm 35 years old and am unbelievably jaded for this relatively young age.

If I do buy a Tyros I'll probably post the ten things I don't like about it on this forum. I think Mike would post the 900 things he does like.

I'd cut him some slack. His energy is really welcome on this forum in my opinion.

Tommy

Tommy
I agree and really do not want to rain on Mike's parade. I love my Tyros and the sounds too. I also think though as someone said earlier.....uh I think we quit the P'n contest about my board is better than your board scenario.

So I think Mike's enthusiasm would be better served by posting great tunes he has done to show off the Tyros and others will judge for themselves.

As it stands and a dwindling lack of responses to the "oh yeah top this with what you got" says to me it is falling on deaf ears.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Agreed.

Hey Mike,

Try the following midi file out on your Tyros:

Tenor Madness

I'm serious now, give this file a try. The last time you asked for a midi showdown, I posted the midi file and a recording and I didn't hear boo from you (sorry Boo).

The song is Tenor Madness done by Sonny Rollins back in the 50's if I'm not mistaken (the song, not the midi).

If anybody is intested, here's a recording of this midi file on a 6-year old keyboard. Just the midi, I'm not playing anything (I wish I could play like that).

Tenor Madness WK8-style

What I would really like to hear is for Boo to record this one. Mute the sax track on the midi and play his sax live.

mike

msutliff,
Sorry, this one loses to the Tyros. This tenor does not sound good at all to me. Sounds pretty cheesie.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Hey Terry,

Yeah, I know. It wasn't really meant to showcase my board, I just threw it in there for fun.

I'd love to hear it through the Tyros though. Or better yet, let's get Boo to provide a "live" sample.

mike

On the subject of playing a sax sound on the keyboard, in LIVE Performance, here's something else I've discovered:

No matter how realistic a sax sample (or any other non keyboard type instrument for that matters) sounds, the audience always KNOWS that it's not coming from a REAL saxophone played by a live saxophone player. A sax performance is really only FULLY appreciated if the audience actually SEE a guy PLAYING a 'real' saxophone. I've noticed that if I play a sax solo (on the keyboard) for much longer than 8 bars, the audience becomes bored and distracted, because their mind both expects & appreciates more, a 'keyboard type' sound to come out of the keyboard that you're playing. After 8 bars of hearing a sax played live on the keyboard, they begin to suspect the sax heard is merely a pre-recorded melody track coming from the keyboard and not me playing it live at all. Because of this, I typically keep non-keyboard type acoustic instrument melodies (sax, flute, harmonica, horns, guitars, etc) fairly short (under 8 bars) and more for instrumental relief from the standard keyboard type sounds. For longer solos and to show off my keyboard playing skills, I always choose a keyboard type sound: acoustic piano, elec piano, organ, accordion, or percusion vibes.

So the bottom line imho is that the sound and visual presence of a REAL Saxophonist (or other non keyboard type instrument) cannot be equaled when played on the keyboard.

Boo! don't stop playing your Sax. You're definitely in BIG demand by audiences that appreciate good acoustic music. I really look forward to jamming with you at our Synthzone Get Together in May.

Ok, I'm really interested in hearing from others on this topic now. - Scott

Agreed Scott! At the present time a Keyboard cannot achieve the sound of a real professional Sax and Saxaphone player. But I think (my opinion of course) that keyboards will cross that barrier and will someday be able to 'duplicate' all the intricacies and nuances (and authentic sound) produced by an actual Saxaphone. In the hands of an expertly skilled Keyboardist it will actually be "impossible" to tell the difference between a real Sax and the one played on a Keyboard. Only time will tell if I'm right or wrong. But I think it will happen one day.

Anyway, Mike "msutliff" thank you for providing an mp3 of the GEM WK8 Tenor Sax. It sounded pretty good to me. I did notice that when the high notes were played it sounded a little 'thin' to me but overall it was fairly decent. And thank you Mike for providing the Midi of Tenor Madness. I made a recording on my Tyros of the Midi you posted. Here is Tenor Madness a lá Tyros.

The first link is a high bit rate mp3 and the second link is an mp3PRO Version of the same recording. Here is:

Tenor Madness On Tyros

Tenor Madness On Tyros mp3PRO Version

And for those who want the real thing here is Tenor Madness by Dexter Gordon. The first link is a high bit encoded mp3 file (13.4 Mb's) and the second is an mp3PRO version (4.8 Mb's) Running time on Dexter Gordon's recording is 10:23.

Dexter Gordon Tenor Madness

Dexter Gordon Tenor Madness mp3PRO Version

Oh; "The Accordionist" 'Tommy', as to your following statement: "You know, I think Mike is probably a younger guy who shelled out some hard-earned cash and bought Tyros. He shows the unbridled enthusiasm that I did 15 years ago with my Ensoniq Mirage synthesizer." - FYI Tommy I'm almost old enough to be you Father. But yes, I did shell out some hard earned cash for the Tyros. And if you've noticed my posts over the last several months I haven't put the Tyros on a pedestal and bowed down in homage to it. Quite the contrary, I have repeatedly picked the Tyros apart needling it for its obvious shortcomings as Steve Deming of Yamaha can attest too. But one thing the Tyros does have is some great sounding instrument Voices apart from the flaws and shortcomings it has.

>>Tom Cavanaugh wrote: "None of us have to put up or shut up. If you haven't heard the Ketrons and the Gems and the Rolands and the Korgs and ALL the rest you are just running off at the mouth.

Most of us on the forum have stopped this "my board is better than your board" nonsense. Remember that in the end most all of the sounds are imitations of the real thing. Your tenor sax and my tenor sax are still instant coffee."

I agree Tom with your statement that yours and my tenor sax are still instant coffee compared to the real thing. But to find the Board that has the "Tasters Choice" of instant coffee is the dilemma. Btw, I have heard all the Saxes of the other Boards you mentioned Tom and they don't have anything on the Tyros' Saxes if you ask me. They all miss the mark including the Tyros of course. But I think the Tyros holds its own against the lot of them IMO.

As to "my board is better than yours" mentality I suppose I do think the Tyros has exceptional sounds but as I've stated above to Tommy I have not put the Tyros on any pedestal per say, just the opposite in fact if you've followed my posts since I've purchased my Tyros. I have openly said that there are many faults on the Tyros but I have also said there are many nice features too, including the sounds. I am praying for the day when the Big Three, GEM, Ketron, or Casio come out with a board that will blow everything else out of the water including the Tyros or Pa1X PRO. And I am relishing the day when your's and my Saxes on our Keyboards will sound like the real thing. Although I think the Tyros' Sweet! Soprano Sax has almost already arrived IYAM.

Best regards,
Mike

I agree with much that was already said on this topic. Scott is right about playing the sax on a keyboard to an audience.... Sax is one of the hardest instruments on a keyboard to play... It's the same way with the guitars. There are just so many technics that are used when playing the actual instrument, that it's almost impossible to duplicate this in real time. I've heard some great sax solos on midis, but I often find that the majority of these sax solos weren't recorded in realtime, but rather step recording was used... It's just a hard instrument to play and play well on the keys. We can run all the riffs we want and bend all the notes we want, but a sax solo done on a keyboard will ALWAYS sound like a keyboard.. I have yet to hear a sax recording done in realtime that completely blew me away and made me think twice. However I have heard some guitar solos that dropped my jaw that were done on keyboards.
Boo, keep playing that sax man! No matter how hard I or anyone else here tries, we will never be able to produce a sax solo any where near the quaility of what you can do on the actual instrument.....

Squeak

IMO not much comparison the Tyros sax sounds better than the other but also no comparison between the Tyros and the real deal of Dexter Gordon.

I too have heard some guitar solos on keyboard that were outstanding and very believable, especially one like distoreted guitars etc. acoustics are a bit tougher I think.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

My Recommendation, if an impressive saxophone performance is desired, just 'learn how' to play the REAL thing. In just a few short years, you might sound half way decent. In fact, adding your playing an acoustic instrument along with your arranger keyboard act can give your act that added edge. Boo, you giving sax lessons? - Scott

Hey Mike,

Thanks for posting a Tyros version of Tenor Madness. Sounds real good.

But thanks even more for posting Dexter Gordon's version of that song. Man, they sure were kickin' it! No doubt about it, you can't beat the real thing.

mike

Here is my input on this:

1) I liked the SAX presented by keyplayer. But because it is a light sax that is usually used in easy listening music. It has the breath background which I like as well.

2) When I am playing live, I avoid the SAX sound for exactly the reason scott shared. For some reason, people are willing to listen to a flute or violin or strings but not SAX. And if I do, they always come and determine that it is fake regardless of how trained they are not. (do I type like Yoda?)

On my web site I played the Psr 2k's
"Growl Sax" solo on my Demo song
"Just A Gigilo" ...
although not a "real sax"...I thought It sounds pretty decent...for a KB Sax...

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www.donnypesce.com

Tenor, sweet tenor and growl are my favorites on the Yamahas and I use them almost as much as the pianos, guitars and strings. But, playing technique is just as important as the voice.

Ok...so it is a replication...and as Scott has said, when you are on stage as a single and playing a variety of voices, the thrill and appreciation for a seeing and relating to a real sax player is not there....but if you want to hear a real pro on an arranger sax...check out Don Mason's work.

His guitar and sax playing techniques replicate the real thing as well as any player I have ever heard and, to me, show how realistic the results can be in the country field.

Eddie

Hi Donny,

nice work on the growl Sax.
It is my favorite on the Yammi too.
The great thing about the yammies Growl is, that it doesn't growl all the time as it does in some other keyboards.
It only growls when you hit the key harder.

Eric

Eric that why I like the Yammy Growl Sax also...you can lay into it or hold back depending on your style of play or feeling.....some other Kb's I've used are terrible in that regard. I'm sure the Tyros is the same....
Thanx for the listen....

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www.donnypesce.com

I listened to it, waiting for the sax to start. Until I realized it already did. Honestly. Is this a sax? Did you feed it lots of chorus? Is there a dual-sound stacked on top of it? Seriously, I sometimes even think I hear an accordion, but no sax here...


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Roland EXR-5 user - http://www.exr5.tk

Ok, I fed the MIDI file that was posted here into the EXR-5, hit START and recorded the thing. This is what the EXR-5 makes of Tenor Madness:
http://www.dittissum.nl/Tenor_Madness_EXR-5_mp3

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Roland EXR-5 user - http://www.exr5.tk

[This message has been edited by Burkels (edited 03-06-2004).]

It's called "Breathy". What you hear is the "breath" in the Sax. Not all Keyboards have that "breathy" sound in their Saxes apparently, which is fine and dandy with me. Some of the Saxes on the Tyros don't have the breathy sound either but the Sweet! Tenor Sax does. Btw, the EXR-5 Tenor Sax sounds pretty good too. No "breathy" sound but it was pretty good nonetheless. Although I noticed that on the higher notes being played the EXR-5 had a hard time maintaining consistency when playing different high notes. By that I mean there were fluctuations in the sound resonance and because of it, it sounded like it was squawking a little almost as if it were changing from a Tenor Sax to an Alto Sax and back. Which tends to make me think the Sample although consistent in the lower ranges is flawed (less than stellar) not being able to maintain consistency in the Sample at the higher registers (higher notes). Thanks for posting the EXR-5 .mp3 Burkels. I would love to hear other Keyboards join in the fray too.

Best regards,
Mike

Here you go Burkels. Here is another song using the Tyros' Sweet! Tenor Sax with the effects toned down. On one other Track in the song I used the Tyros' Live! Sax Section but the volume is low and it won't distract from the Sweet! Tenor Sax and is only used sparingly.

Get On Board

Get On Board mp3PRO Version

Best regards,
Mike

PS: Another competition of Growl Saxes, Alto Saxes and even Soprano Saxes would be interesting too.

Thanks for posting! This indeed sounds more like a sax ;-) The EXR-5 has this kind of sound too, along with an even more breathy sax. Send me the Midi for Get on board by mail if you like, I'll feed it to the EXR-5 :-)

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Roland EXR-5 user - http://www.exr5.tk

Next up to the plate is the Tyros' Alto Sax. This time I used the Sweet! Alto Sax. The Sweet! Alto Sax is a little tricky to obtain a good sound when you play it as a stand alone Voice by the Keys IMO. Must be velocity switching or something - (on a Sax?). But within the context of a Midi the Tyros' Sweet! Alto Sax shines very easily IMO. Here is:

Breakout

Breakout mp3PRO version

PS: You'll Dig the Bass too. In the Groove!

If nothing else just sit back and enjoy the song!! And then after that you can lay into me with your stinging criticism.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-07-2004).]

Here is the Tyros' Sweet! Soprano Sax. The only one left besides this is the Baritone Sax. I'll probably give an example of that sometime too. Anyway; this demo of the Sweet! Soprano Sax is played by me. I used an internal Style "Live8Beat" and on the left hand I added a "Mmm" Choir voice to go along with the melody. Here is:

Tyros Sweet! Soprano Sax

Best regards,
Mike